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Author Topic: What's wrong with Vista?  (Read 19121 times)

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quaxo

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What's wrong with Vista?
« on: December 29, 2009, 01:06:03 AM »
I've been using Vista for nearly a year now and I have had no problems with it "because it is Vista". The only issue I have is that it takes significantly longer to boot up than XP does. Once it's up and running, it runs as well on my laptop as XP does on my more powerful desktop.

It's funny though, nearly any reason I've ever seen someone give for not using Vista was applicable to nearly any new OS release. These are actual quotes from websites or people that say these are problems with Vista:

1. "If your copy of Vista came with the purchase of a new computer, that copy of Vista may only be legally used on that machine, forever." True with any MS OS that comes packaged with a new computer.

2. "If you bought Vista in a retail store and installed it on a machine you already owned, you have to completely delete it on that machine before you can install it on another machine." That's true of nearly any software you buy, be it an OS, a game, or some other program.

3. "You give Microsoft the right, through programs like Windows Defender, to delete programs from your system that it decides are spyware." Turn it off, simple enough. Personally though, I've never had any issues with Windows Defender at all.

4. "You consent to being spied upon by Microsoft, through the “Windows Genuine Advantage” system. This system tries to identify instances of copying that Microsoft thinks are illegitimate." XP and 7 use WGA as well. So how is Vista any different?

5. "Vista wants a new PC." So did XP when it came out. So did 98 when it came out. It's called advancement. As the technology behind hardware advances, so does the technology behind software to take advantage of those hardware advances.

6. "Installing any new operating system is time-consuming. You have to configure everything, load your data, install your applications, and get your peripherals working. Then, in the case of Vista, you have to figure out where Microsoft buried all the options, menus, and features, and get used to the ubiquitous Search boxes." Which is why we should have never switched to Windows 95 from 3.1, and Windows XP from 98... just because things are in different places. To be honest, I had no problem finding any options in Vista when moving from XP. They're pretty much in the same place as they are in XP, except they might be named slightly different. And if you really can't get into the Vista interface, 4 clicks makes it look like XP.

7. "Buying Vista now, and installing it on old hardware, means doing additional, time-consuming tasks--possibly an additional day or two. Why? Chances are, you'll have to hunt down, install, and troubleshoot new drivers for your old peripherals and system components." What? This didn't happen when moving between 98 and XP? Or 3.1 to 95? Or even taking the jump from XP straight to 7? Absolute rubbish.

8. "Vista is too expensive." So is any other version of Windows while it's still the latest thing.

9. "Business and home users will be nonplussed by the blizzard of protect-you-from-yourself password-entry and "Continue" boxes required by the User Account Controls feature." From the control panel, 4 clicks will turn this off. To be honest, some people with computers DO need to be protected from themselves! (Hi Mom!)

A lot of people don't know about it, but last year MS found a bunch of "Vista skeptics" and invited them to come try out their "new" operating system codenamed "Mojave" and recorded the users' responses on video. More than 90% of them gave positive feedback on this fantastic new "Mojave" operating system that was in the works. After they had their chance to play with it and gave their feedback, they were informed that the new OS they were playing with, "Mojave", was in fact Windows Vista.

I'm just curious if anyone could point out to me what is wrong with Vista that has given it such a poor reputation. And I mean real problems, not all the rubbish and falsehoods going around. If you're going to comment, be ready to back up your statement with proof.  :P Oh, and if you do decide to post something negative about Vista, make sure it was Vista's fault and not your own. (Like no "Oh, I got 20 trojans on Vista that I never got on XP". Really, that's not Vista's fault.)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 09:42:39 AM by quaxo »

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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 01:21:24 AM »
Quote
I'm just curious if anyone could point out to me what is wrong with Vista that has given it such a poor reputation. And I mean real problems, not all the rubbish and falsehoods going around. If you're going to comment, be ready to back up your statement with proof.  Tongue

 They should have never called it "Vista", sounds like something from Disney. You gave the answer. They could have used the name of an American Indian tribe. That would have been better than "Vista".

                  Maybe Mojave.




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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 08:45:15 AM »
I was a naysayer myself until I tried it, too. At least I knew that many of my conceptions were preconceived.

Anyway, it's funny how when you point out s omething like how the new OS is always said to suck, that they say "NO! this time it's DIFFERENT!" and then you change what they say to use windows 3.1 and windows 95 instead of XP and Vista, and suddenly you have a quote directly out of a PC magazine from 94/95.
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patio

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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 08:59:36 AM »
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

quaxo

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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 09:14:36 AM »
Thanks for the link Patio. I never did get around to searching for that, I just remember reading about it on Cnet some time ago.

Most of the content from my first post was a response to a different thread, but I realized what a rant I had gone on and that I never actually addressed the issue of that thread, so I decided not to reply with what I had typed, but at least post it here in its own thread.

You know, there's one guy I would have loved to get into that Mojave deal. There's a computer school I do work for, and he's always ranting about Vista, but the truth is he has never actually used it.

A friend of mine in that same company had Vista removed from his laptop the moment he bought it and had an illegal copy of XP put on it. He gave me his laptop 3 months ago because the XP install he had went bad from a virus infection. I got his drive clean, but XP was toast. I told him I was going to use his recovery partition and put Vista back on his system since it came with a license for it. After a bit of moaning from him, I convinced him to give it a try for a while and if he didn't like it I'd give him a legal copy of XP to put on it instead. He's still using Vista. He loves it.

patio

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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 09:23:07 AM »
Way to go...convert the skeptics...
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

Allan

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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2009, 09:24:12 AM »
I have systems with Vista, XP & Windows 7. I'm happy with all of them. It's just an OS for crying out loud.

quaxo

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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2009, 09:33:18 AM »
Way to go...convert the skeptics...

Well, the first guy I mentioned is just like that. He's the kind of guy that wouldn't believe that the sky is blue, even if you took him outside and showed him. I won't bother trying to convince him otherwise.  ;D

You know, I'm not surprised there still hasn't been a negative response to this thread yet. Like I said, in the year I've been using it, I still haven't had any problems with it. Everything I don't like about the OS can be changed or disabled (like UAC). I'm still open to any comments to the contrary, so long as they're backed by facts.

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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2009, 10:09:50 AM »
You know, I'm not surprised there still hasn't been a negative response to this thread yet.

Well, to be honest a good number of members who are against vista seem to have mental or learning difficulties. They also lack good enunciation skills, so if any of them respond we had better be prepared for some interpretation of their ambiguous and perhaps self-conflicting arguments that only solidify my assertion of their mental difficulties.
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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2009, 06:25:37 PM »
Quote
I have systems with Vista, XP & Windows 7. I'm happy with all of them. It's just an OS for crying out loud.
Same here...
Quote
to be honest a good number of members who are against vista seem to have mental or learning difficulties
Strangely enough, most of those handicapped people love Windows 7, all of sudden.
As far, as I can say, Windows 7 is barely different than Vista. It's even based on very same engine.

patio

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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2009, 07:02:29 PM »
This in part is because MS did what i think was a brilliant marketing move.....they made it FREE to millions who wanted to "check it out"...

Before long the sheeple were all DLoading .iso's burning copies of each build and in general creating a mass sub-culture of the latest and greatest testers.

Word spread like wildfire...newsgroups and Forums popped up from nowhere and all a full year before the RC was even assembled.

And there you have it...millions of instant Vista converts...all anxiously awaiting the final release.
Least that's how i saw it...
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2009, 07:10:35 PM »
and the whole .1 version thing. I mean, nobody really liked windows 3.0, but then, MS fixes a few minor bugs, tacks on a .1 and BOOM! everybody loves it!

OTOH, not a lot of people are aware of actual version numbers nowadays, so the whole "It's still Version 6" argument seems to only confuse them. "But... it's windows 7... NOOO!" and of course they spend their afternoons trying to decide what windows 1 through 6 really are, starting arguments in newsgroups over wether windows for workgroups REALLY counts as one of those versions, or wether it should actually be in the windows 3.1 group, which they unanimously agree also includes 3.11. They also argue wether NT versions prior to XP should be counted in the total. Needless to say, this results in hurt feelings all around as they try to rationalize the whole "Windows 7" name, and it doesn't help when somebody (like myself) says "you realize it's actually windows 6.1, not windows 7".
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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2009, 01:50:12 PM »
MS PR Math  course.
The form 6.1 can be factored into two parts.
The number six.
The number one.
Using PR Math rules we have:
6.1 >> 6 & 1
6 & 1 := 7
So it is windows 7.

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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2009, 01:55:22 PM »
well, actually, the version number is <MajorVersion>.<MinorVersion>.<Revision> (Build <BuildNumber>)

that being said, wether they decide to bump up minor or major versions seems to be completely based on a whim. Ideally, each new major release would have- well, a new major version number. The only reason they DON'T do that is because people are STILL checking for explicit version numbers for things like aero or luna, like, for example,

Code: [Select]
if windowsver.major = 5 then
  'Luna themes are available.
Elseif windowsver.majorver = 6 then
 'aero
end if

In reality, Windows Vista Basic is really the Luna theme; and aero is supported in windows 7 as well, and this type of code is the reason why MS decided to simply increment the minor version.

That being said, Windows 95,98, and ME were All version 4...
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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2009, 02:27:24 PM »
ME was supposed to be a 'home rition' to win 2k, or so I remember though win2k is the NT line....

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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2009, 02:31:52 PM »
ME was totally screwed up attempt to make Win 98 better, like it was something wrong with 98....

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #16 on: December 30, 2009, 03:06:58 PM »
    It's not any one thing in particular that gave Vista a bad rep.  It's a combination of things creating domino effects...

    Generally, some of the issues were:

    1) Its original code base, which got scrapped and rewritten with Server 2003 as its basis after the whole Blaster worm fiasco, which lead to:

    2) Its development delays, partially due to having to work on XP SP2 post haste, which lead to:

    3) Promised features being omitted (i.e.: Indigo, Avalon, etc.)

    4) Developers dragging their feet on Vista-compatible drivers and software (particularly because many of them followed standards that should have never been followed in the first place like having their stuff work only when running the machine as an administrator).

    5) The whole "Vista Capable" fiasco orchestrated between Microsoft and Intel.  Particularly, many of Intel's onboard graphics adapters didn't support Aero at the time. 

    6) In general, average PC hardware not ready for Vista at the time.  This was before 2 GB of RAM became super-cheap.  There were Vista Home Basic machines running 512 MB of RAM (my cousin had one), which completely drag their rears trying to anything.  This lead to...

    7) "Why pay more for less?  XP runs just fine on my current hardware!"  XP was not only the official successor to 2000, but was the unofficial successor to Windows 98 and Me.  XP is an NT-based OS for both consumers and businesses.  Despite any negativity toward XP back then, it had a lot of obvious benefits to consumers.  Businesses, OTOH, were not so quick to go to XP from 2000, as they had the same complaint mentioned below that applies to Vista:

    8) Vista Gold/SP0/RTM's bloat.  Considering that Windows 7 can run on a netbook and Vista struggles in that department, it seems that there wasn't much in the way of code optimization in Vista.  Perhaps the 11th hour rush post-code scrap had something to do with that?  Perhaps Microsoft thought that people would throw hardware at the problem instead of sticking with XP?

    I used to tell people not to run Vista on anything less than 2 GB of RAM.  Granted SP2 can run on 1 GB of RAM passably, it shouldn't have taken that long to clean up the bloat. 

    Remember slow file copying in Vista?  That wasn't fixed until SP1. 

    9) Too much change too fast (i.e.: User Account Control).  People hate change for the most part.  People despise change "just for the sake of change."  That's what Vista presented itself as.  Was Vista fulfilling a perceived need that XP was not?  In general, it did (widespread 64-bit adoption, better security model), but people didn't see it that way. 

    10) Removal of previous features with a) little justification for doing so and b) no solid replacement (i.e.: NetMeeting, HyperTerminal, NTBACKUP, etc.).  NetMeeting was replaced with Windows Meeting Space, but the option to enable Remote Desktop Sharing to allow the person on the other end to see what the remote controller is doing was removed.  HyperTerminal was removed with no replacement.  NTBACKUP was replaced with the Windows Backup in Vista, which is not as flexible...

    11) Far more rapid spread of information in the late 00s than the early 00s.  Naysayers are louder than ever, and they're being heard whether they should be or not.  This leads to:

    12) Misunderstanding of Vista features.  Superfetch is probably the biggest example of this.  Some say it slows down computers with less RAM.  Some say it slows down computers in general.  This may be because we're all trained to think that seeing all our RAM gobbled up is abnormal when, in reality, it's actually caching files that it thinks we access the most so they can be accessed faster.  However, one thing I've noticed is that it does slow down startup/logon during the caching (which is why Windows 7 delays the caching by about 5-6 minutes).  Perhaps this is why Microsoft defaulted the Start Menu power button to "Sleep"?

    Quote from: talontromper
    Part of the problem is most people don't generally deal with computer problems. So for most they think that close enough is good enough.

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #17 on: December 30, 2009, 03:15:42 PM »
    Quote
    Its original code base, which got scrapped and rewritten with Server 2003


    Windows Vista's codebase was never scrapped and rewritten. some portions of the kernel were, but that was far less then 20%.

    (IF it was a totally rewritten codebase, I wonder why they rewrote the exact same WMF rendering bug that's been there since win95?)

    Quote
    Considering that Windows 7 can run on a netbook and Vista struggles in that department, it seems that there wasn't much in the way of code optimization in Vista.  Perhaps the 11th hour rush post-code scrap had something to do with that?  Perhaps Microsoft thought that people would throw hardware at the problem instead of sticking with XP?

    Actually, the main reason Post RTM Vista and windows 7 run better on netbooks are simply better default options and better detection of low-end hardware to enable those options.

    Netmeeting was probably removed because so many viruses/malware take advantage of the default service configuration on XP to use it; also, most people, well, never use it.


    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #18 on: December 30, 2009, 04:26:11 PM »
    ME was totally screwed up attempt to make Win 98 better, like it was something wrong with 98....
    I can only attribute ME with MS Bob and blame both on that bad MS innovation, it was similar to 'casual Friday'.  I think they called it 'drunken Monday'...
    Evil is an exact science.

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #19 on: December 30, 2009, 04:30:12 PM »
    MS has a long history of fixing things, which were not broken, removing features, which most people will miss and adding features, which nobody wants.

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #20 on: December 30, 2009, 05:17:21 PM »
    well, consider it this way: when they were developing earlier versions of Excel (<5) they figured everybody used excel for "what if" tests; like, "What if I made this much less a month" or "what if my dog needed more expensive special food" and see how it would reflect on the budget.

    Turns out, people were simply storing LISTS in Excel, and not really performing what if tests at all; the Excel team, armed with this knowledge, (after performing some real world usability tests, outside the lab) added the Fill-Down and Fill Left commands, and sort and other features that help manage lists. It was simply a case of expecting people to use it for what it was designed for. Heck, even today people keep things in Excel that really should go in a database.

    It's kind of like the Clock; a lot of the time, people would use it as a calendar, to see, for example, what day the 24 falls on or whatever. What people didn't realize, is changing ANYTHING in the dialog from double-clicking the clock in the tasbar resulting in a change of the system time. This caused problems sometimes for things like alarms and alerts. MS discovered that people were doing it "the wrong way" and made it the "right way" by making it show a clock that would serve as a calendar that would not change the system time/date.

    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    patio

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #21 on: December 30, 2009, 05:56:11 PM »
    The only thing i miss lately is hardware profiles...a handy feature.
    " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #22 on: January 14, 2010, 07:33:47 PM »
    I was a naysayer myself until I tried it, too. At least I knew that many of my conceptions were preconceived.

    Anyway, it's funny how when you point out s omething like how the new OS is always said to suck, that they say "NO! this time it's DIFFERENT!" and then you change what they say to use windows 3.1 and windows 95 instead of XP and Vista, and suddenly you have a quote directly out of a PC magazine from 94/95.

    Then...when did XP start being considered as a good OS. I never heard half as much about the problems with XP than those of Vista. Besides, if vista is the fantastic, user-friendly OS that microsoft has  made it out to be, why release windows 7 so soon after it? However, I think I was about 9 or 10 the first time I used a pc with XP so I can't say I know half as much about how windows xp was viewed upon released than some of the computer guru's here.

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #23 on: January 14, 2010, 07:45:57 PM »
    Quote
    why release windows 7 so soon after it?
    Says who?


    cintari

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #24 on: January 25, 2010, 06:44:48 AM »
    touche

    Broni


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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #25 on: January 25, 2010, 09:42:57 AM »
    Huh?

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #27 on: January 27, 2010, 01:25:32 PM »
    Huh?
    Quote
    # In Egyptian mythology, Huh (also Heh, Hah, Hauh, Huah, Hahuh) was the deification of eternity in the Ogdoad, his name itself meaning endlessness. As a concept, he was androgynous, his female form being known as Hauhet, which is simply the feminine form of his name.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huh_(god)



    patio

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #28 on: January 27, 2010, 02:30:09 PM »
    Hmmmm....
    " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

    wowsrc



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      Re: What's wrong with Vista?
      « Reply #29 on: February 01, 2010, 06:30:25 AM »
      Hmmmm....
      Hmm
      Marine Medium Helicopter Training Squadron 164 (HMM(T)-164), is a United States Marine Corps Fleet Replacement Squadron that is based at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton. Known as the Knightriders, they fall under the command Marine Aircraft Group 39 (MAG-39) and the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing (3rd MAW).