Loss of computer after attempt at backup

[truenorth]

Firstly i sure do appreciate the effort and patience that you guys are displaying.BC i do actually have a version of image burn already on this Compaq computer. It is not a program i have used in a long time so i don't know how old it is. I am however going to follow your well detailed instructions for it and will let you know what happens. I certainly do NOT see anything near what you point i should see. Stay tuned. truenorth

[truenorth]

OK all done but not what i had hoped to see. I used your last paragraph of instructions to use IMGburn (i thought my version was too old so i used your link and installed the latest).I heard the beautiful symphonic music indicating a successfull burn and i also got the small window open indicating a successfull burn.
  When examining the content of the disc from an "explore" window the right side is blank. When i look at the properties of the disc it shows 100% full.
  I put it in the optical drive of the Sony anyway.A new page comes up which i can pause and examine.Well actually it is NOT a totally new page it is what i had always been seeing just before the black page with the upper left flashing cursor. But it now has new info at the bottom of the page which is:
"boot from atapi cd rom= no emulation
press any key to boot from cd"
  When i do press any key i then go to the black screen with the upper left flashing cursor.
  At no time can i ever generate on either computer those things i should see on the disc. truenorth

[BC_Programmer]

interesting...

the disc seems to be burning properly though, since it displays the "press any key to boot from cd" prompt.  (this is part of the disc itself, not the BIOS)

And then it freezes as it did on you before. I have to say this is a rather vexing issues to troubleshoot.

A:) can you Slave the hard drive in the "sick" computer into another one? (If you have an enclosure handy that would be best, since it avoids opening up the working PC) Then you can recover your data that way.

I'm not sure what is going on with the Sony at all; it appears to simply hang regardless of the selected boot device. If it has a Floppy drive, you could see if it will boot from that by formatting a floppy and selecting the "Create an MS-DOS startup disk" in the format options window. It's possible that one or both of the optical drives are failing/failed, you can eliminate that possibility by unplugging both of them and observing the same behaviour (hang when it tries to boot from the HD).

Aside from that I can only say that nothing sticks out for me as the cause here, and it could be any number of things. Including bad RAM, bad PSU, etc.

[truenorth]

BC you and others have been more than generous with your help on this issue. I will address some of your comments. Yes i do have a floppy drive in that Sony and it is recognized. However before i ever came on the forum seeking assistance i did try some "start up"floppies. Not sure which if either would be required but given that win98SE is one of the 2 O/S on the Sony i tried a win98 start up.
  I really am convinced that the problem is not optical drive related for a variety of reasons which i think if stated you would find credible. I have also thought about the RAM> I cannot remember how many sticks i have in it (2 i think). I will examine that and do the usual in/out/switch process (but not today).
  Yes i do have some unused enclosures but from experience with them they have generated problems of there own. So i would prefer to slave directly to minimize other issues creeping in. As i stated way back when there are two physical Hdd in the Sony. So i think i will slave the "G,etc" one 1st as it is already a slave to see what i get. Then i will slave the "C" and try to see what is there.
  But most importantly for you and the others:
1.you deserve a rest from this
2.your expertise needs to be available to others and not only me
3. I am (not upset--discouraged maybe) a bit tired of this so i am going to layoff the Sony probably until Sunday then I'll do the things i have mentioned above.
4.If you are unaware tonight there is to be an Olympic men's hockey game between Russia and Canada. It is stated by some to be likely the best game to be played in the tournament. So if your interested watch it and enjoy. I intend to.
5.I will most certainly report back when and if anything changes for better or worse with this problem.
    Thanks to all of you that have given me your assistance. truenorth

[patio]

This:

As the only access to anything on the Sony at the moment is via the BIOS, i have tried changing various BIOS values to see if it would change anything. By selecting " onboard LAN" the "controller " was "disabled". I changed the value to "enabled".
  By changing the value at boot i had a new page appear. It is called "realtek boot agent" (no idea what it is).The items available for values are:
1.network boot protocol = ROM disable
2.boot order-rom disable
3.show config message
4.show message time = 3 seconds

And this :

1,Disabled
2.Sony DVD rw
3.pioneer DVD rom
  It is #3 which is the default
   I tried both the default (pioneer) and then changed the boot sequence to make the Sony DVD #1. In both cases the results were the same as all previous results.
  Now to address the lights issue. There is no light to observe on the Pioneer. Not because it doesn't light there is NO light available. However when the recovery disc is in the drive i can hear it spin up and the drawer opens and closes on command. On the Sony DVD it does light and spin at boot. Still on the topic of lights initially the two orange lights just above the on/off manual switch on the front of the tower do initially both come on. Then it changes to one orange. Then when it transitions to the black page with the flashing cursor no orange lights are illuminated.

all send up a Red flag...
What i would suggest is finding out first which optical drive is the most dependable...
Unplug ALL others.
2nd  any changes you are making in the BIOS are obviously not working...therefore:
Power down the machine.
Unplug it.
Remove the CMOS battery for 10 minutes or so...then replace it and try again.

PS. I have no idea why a Realtek driver would show up in the BIOS...normally sound related.

PSS: When you move the 1 remaining CDRom drive to the top of the boot order the proper procedure is to press F10 to "save changes and Exit" and answer "Y" to the prompt...

[truenorth]

Patio, Dealing with your last paragraph 1st. Yes i do the F10 as the stage when i do a change. However if it doesn't result in any positive change then i go back into the BIOS and only press F5 to ensure that all BIOS values are returned to default. I do that on the presumption that it is better to start from a known total default situation than with some changed and some not.
  Now to another point. After i shut off the Compaq computer last night the Sony was still on. These 2 computer share a monitor ,keyboard,and mouse via a KVM switch. At this point the Sony is on the page where the page is black and the cursor is flashing in the upper left corner from my last effort with Allen/BC's ISO disc. For whatever reason i took the disc out of the drive that had created the reaction stated above and placed it in the other optical drive. I rebooted the computer. The results were dramatically different than when it had been in the other drive.
   It proceeded to do EXACTLY as had occurred way back when i used the XP pro CD and also concluded exactly the same way. That is with the final message at the location of the lower task bar being "setup is opening (or maybe starting) windows. However like the other time it also never advanced beyond that point. The screen was blue at that point. I shut down the computer and went to watch the hockey game (which was a great treat after the problems the Sony has been giving me  )
  In the same time frame as we have been dealing with this Sony i have completely renovated a bathroom,repaired a chainsaw and done many other of life's normal activities. I keep a small plaque on my desk which reads "to err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer". They can be a challenge.
   I had mentioned the battery earlier and it was recommended not to. However when i open er up on Sunday I'll put that into the mix.truenorth

[truenorth]

I have a bit of a quandry and i would appreciate your suggestion as to which way to proceed. It is my intention as stated to delve into the inards of the Sony on Sunday to try some of the suggestions that members have given.
  Coincidentally to my request for assistance on the CH forums i submitted a tech support rquest to Paragon (as i am convinced it was the attempted use of their backup software that caused this problem). I have recieved the following responce from them. You will note it contains a number of suggestions. I tried the one regarding the replugging in the external (as it seemed pretty benign). But i have asked them some additional questions to clarify some of their other suggested efforts and am awaiting a reply. My question is this
   Should i await their reply and then try their solution BEFORE i try any of the ones from the CH forums or can i go ahead with the Sunday effort? So far it has taken about 6 days to get a reply from Paragon. I would like to go ahead with the Sunday effort but i don't want to make things worse if their "recovery disc(s)" route has promise.
  No one will be faulted on the advice they provide--i just don't know what is besst at the moment. truenorth

 26/02/2010 15:29 (Pankratova Anna) Clarify Request 
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DearXXXX, Thank you for your interest in Paragon Software products. Please provide us some more details to localize the issue: (1) Could you please specify did you disconnect the external drive where Snapshot Storage (Backup Capsule) is located? Please try to connect the device using the same USB-port as in first time and start your PC. Do you see 'Press F* key to restore from Backup Capsule"? (2) Do you have Paragon Recovery CD (it should be created with Paragon System Backup)? If not, please download the *.iso file with Recovery CD from our FTP: Burn the CD from image (not as a single file) and follow the instructions: 1. Boot your PC from Recovery CD 2. Select Normal Mode 3. Run Paragon Backup and Recovery 4. Ensure that both system partitions are healthy, Active and not hidden 5. Right-click the HDD with WinXP and select 'Update MBR' 6. Once finished, eject the CD and restart your PC Please let us know about any results. ____________________ With best regards, Anna Pankratova Support Engineer Paragon Software Group Knowledge Base: http://kb.paragon-software.com/ Web site: http://www.paragon-software.com/ Web forum: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=107 Follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/ParagonSoftware Get time priority in receiving qualified support! Learn more about our support offers at http://www.paragon-software.com/support/services/
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[truenorth]

This post is just to add some information re this ongoing issue. It is not complete as i have only done a part of the suggested remedies. But if i don't write from my cryptic notes now i will forget things.
1.There is only one 512 MB ram stick in it.So i removed it (don't have any spares of the same kind) and put it in the other available slot= no change.
2.I removed it and returned it to it's original slot=no change.
3.I removed the CMOS battery for 15 mins.=This brought about a number of changes
A) My SONY logo page is back at boot.
B)Instead of advancing all the way to the black page with the upper left flashing cursor the sequence stops at the page that has "award bios ver.6" at the top.
C) The 2ND line from the bottom of that page has "press F1 to continue and press F2 to enter setup" However pressing F1 takes me to the "PCI device listing page and then immediately to the black page as before.
D) I did do the F2 route and went into the BIOS and corrected the time and date. That is all i changed.
E) On the "press F1 etc" page initially there was a "checksum error-defaults loaded" Which is now gone since i changed the time/date
F) There is a brand new line (never there before)at the bottom of the stationary page which is "08/20/2002-nForce-A7N266VX"
G) The "PCI device listing page looks exactly as it did previously and shows all devices present.
   This is current to what i have done. Now i shall one at a time first take off line each of the 2 HDD and try the computer with only one connected. Then i shall remove the HDD one at a time starting with the slave and see what i can see in another computer on that HDD.
   This post is only given as info and unless someone sees something revealing from what has happened i do not expect a responce. I shall post again when i have the HDD results. Cheers,truenorth

[truenorth]

OK much to report. The 2 hdd out of the Sony are:
1.Master a Samsung 80GB with 3 partitions (2 fat 32 and 1 NTFS). Can read all partitions from the Compaq when HDD set to slave. All data/programs seem to be there and accessible (only tried a few to test access).
2.Slave from Sony Western Digital =80GB. There are 2 partitions showing both Fat 32. My memory is not clear enough but i am fairly certain i am missing a partition on this HDD. This is i believe substantiated by the fact that only 2 partitions are showing one with 26 GB and the other with 25 GB. Therefore where is the other approximately 29 GB?
  So needless to say i am quite pleased that i can access the data. I had thought it was mainly on the slave WD however it is actually on the Samsung.
   I have a question which I'm sure has a logical answer. I had expected to see (at boot) on the Compaq an opportunity to access the operating systems that are on the 2 HDD from the Sony?I do not. Should i see them? Is this an indication that they are gone? Perhaps as a result of the error from the back up attempt? If so where do i go now in order to rejuvenate the Sony?
  If anyone needs more info please ask.truenorth
  P.S. I really hope to recover the Sony as this Compaq has so many idiotsicracies i have no intention now or ever to get into them. But i should perhaps show it more respect it did get me through this.

[truenorth]

OK! I have been waiting for the return of the gurus. I did not want to do anything (for fear i would make things worse). However curiosity got the better of me so this morning for the 1st time since i put the Sony back together i simply turned it on.
  Something new has appeared that has not been there until now. I will not touch it to do ANYTHING else until i receive advice from the forum members as i feel i may be closer to the recovery of the computer than at any point up to now.
   The top of the page shows primary master disk=none,primary slave disk=none. So to me that means it is not seeing either of the HDD (even though we know now they both work). But maybe what it is really saying (i sure don't know) is no operating systems are being seen on either disk?
  At the bottom of the page is a line with "disk boot failure ,insert system disk and press enter". There is a flashing cursor below that line. I am going to turn off the computer via the power on/off switch on the front and await input.truenorth
P.S. As i just went to the computer to shut it off i notice something else that is new . The orange light to the left on the front above the power switch is on constantly.

[BC_Programmer]

Make sure the disks are properly connected. The error means it doesn't see the drives at all. Make sure the jumpers are set properly, etc.

[truenorth]

BC,Thanks. Wilco. Will advise,truenorth

[truenorth]

BC, You nailed it. In the process of the removal of the 2 HDD i also (unintentionally) had removed the MOBO connection as well. So that is fixed but that is all that is fixed.
   All i get now at start is the Sony logo page. The next page with the equipment and status of it (all drives present and accounted for) in proper description and size. Then the black page with the flashing cursor.
  One new event has occurred. The Paragon back up tech support has come through with their ISO recovery thingy. I now have it on a CD as an ISO image (i believe). Do you think i should give it a whirl? Or would you advise something else at this stage?truenorth

[BC_Programmer]

Do you think i should give it a whirl? Or would you advise something else at this stage?truenorth

May as well give it a shot. I'm out of other ideas at this point.

[truenorth]

OK a bit of an update to all of you following this post particularly those of you that have been so generous with your assistance there is news to report. Today i finally had the time to try the ISO "recovery disk" i created from paragon. The disk is recognized by the optical drive in the Sony. It proceeds via command to the wizard. It is not self evident as to what one should do at that stage. There appears to be an option to re establish partitions and format a drive. Now that we know that the 2 physical HDD are readable (well except for one partition on the master drive) i am loath to reformat as that would mean losing the data on the drive. Also an encouraging thing that seems to be evident from my perusal around the Paragon wizard (without executing an action/ change command is that that program does seem to see ALL 3 partitions on each of the drives. It lists them all and the contents all seem to be there on all 6 partitions. There are 6 drives alphabetically listed in sequence. I have emailed Paragon again to update them and to request specific guidance as to what to do next as at this juncture i don't want to create new problems. So while it is premature to start popping the champagne corks i do believe i can hear the orchestra tuning up in the distance. Will post again when new news to report.truenorth