Upgrading to different motherboard questions.

[69Z28]

First I want to thank everyone for the replies to my past post.

Now to my questions. Those that have replied probably know by now I have an old, old computer I'm tinkering with. Currently there is a P55-BT Motherboard in it from EPOX, I believe but not really sure, with Pentium MMX 200 processor. I am at the limit in regards to RAM and would like to know, if possible, if there are any motherboards I can find that will replace the P55-BT without having too many issues. What would I need to look for? It doesn't have to be top of the line for the day, just something that will make the computer a little faster, and I am pretty sure I need it in a AT form-factor.

I was checking out EBAY and there are quite a few, but I don't know what to browse for. Most of you will say trash it, but I don't want to do that. This is for learning purposes.

Thanks

[Computer_Commando]

Learning is fine, I completely understand.  But why put any money into a computer that old?  A Pentium MMX 200 is just about 15 years old.  Better to spend the money building a new computer.  If you can find a replacement mobo for free, okay.  What are your goals and what is your budget?

A '69-Z28 has value in any condition, a 200MMX does not.

[69Z28]

Learning is fine, I completely understand.  But why put any money into a computer that old?  A Pentium MMX 200 is just about 15 years old.  Better to spend the money building a new computer.  If you can find a replacement mobo for free, okay.  What are your goals and what is your budget?

A '69-Z28 has value in any condition, a 200MMX does not.

I know about the Z28 I have a 1969 X33D80. Well to be honest with you it is the first computer I bought. It was an old 486 and the person I bought if from converted to the 200MMX. My 9 year old grandson is always bugging me to look up tips and tricks for the games he plays and I wanted to fix this up so he can do his own thing on it. He doesn't care anything about speed or whether its old or new, he just wants to get the info he wants.

I would think a lot of conversions were done back in the day and maybe someone has a better board than this laying around. As far as budget that depends on what used old motherboards are going for. If it isn't worth it I can make a decision to go or no go with the change. Like I said, it is a sense of accomplishment for me as well. If it is old and I can make it faster I want to do it.

[Computer_Commando]

1.  I know about the Z28 I have a 1969 X33D80.
2.  It was an old 486 and the person I bought if from converted to the 200MMX.
3.  I would think a lot of conversions were done back in the day and maybe someone has a better board than this laying around.
3.  As far as budget that depends on what used old motherboards are going for. If it isn't worth it I can make a decision to go or no go with the change.
4.  Like I said, it is a sense of accomplishment for me as well. If it is old and I can make it faster I want to do it.

1.  It's obvious from your screen name.  Don't know what the X33D80 is.  Option code maybe?
2.  Not really, components were not as readily available as today and no eBay or very few internet resellers.
3.  Used motherboard of the 200MMX vintage are worth more as scrap.
4.  Maybe look for a Pentium II or Pentium III motherboard.

[69Z28]

1.  It's obvious from your screen name.  Don't know what the X33D80 is.  Option code maybe?
2.  Not really, components were not as readily available as today and no eBay or very few internet resellers.
3.  Used motherboard of the 200MMX vintage are worth more as scrap.
4.  Maybe look for a Pentium II or Pentium III motherboard.

X33 is a trim code and the D80 is front and real spoilers. Thanks for the time and info. I'll see if I can find something. If not, it will just have to be slow.

[69Z28]

1.  It's obvious from your screen name.  Don't know what the X33D80 is.  Option code maybe?
2.  Not really, components were not as readily available as today and no eBay or very few internet resellers.
3.  Used motherboard of the 200MMX vintage are worth more as scrap.
4.  Maybe look for a Pentium II or Pentium III motherboard.

I found this board. Will this be a good replacement?

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-MATSONIC-MS7016S-Slot-1-Pentium-II-Motherboard-/180476799339?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motherboards&hash=item2a0541696b

[patio]

They make terrible MBoards...
But good luck.

[69Z28]

They make terrible MBoards...
But good luck.

Can you expand on that and tell me what is wrong with them?

[Salmon Trout]

Can you expand on that and tell me what is wrong with them?

The bargain basement motherboard makers generally are nothing more than shoddy motherboards made by PCChips, and are to be avoided. Unfortunately, in this day and age of computer retailing, many of the computer shops get into too many price wars, and try to cut corners, and often times, use these awful motherboards. The brands that I am familiar with include Alton, Amptron, Eurone, Matsonic, Houston Technologies, and Hsing Tech. These companies use poor quality 4-layer PCB in their motherboards, and you can easily identify them by how easily they break when you bend them in your hands.

[Computer_Commando]

I found this board. Will this be a good replacement?
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-MATSONIC-MS7016S-Slot-1-Pentium-II-Motherboard-/180476799339?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motherboards&hash=item2a0541696b

Your current motherboard is a Socket 7 (CPU socket), the one shown in the link is a Slot 1.  Your current CPU will not fit.
P55-BT Manual

[69Z28]

Your current motherboard is a Socket 7 (CPU socket), the one shown in the link is a Slot 1.  Your current CPU will not fit.
P55-BT Manual

Ok thanks.

[69Z28]

Thanks for all the heads up info. Really good stuff.

[Computer_Commando]

I didn't look past p.8, but everything you need to know is in there.  A different motherboard isn't going to make it any faster, if you intend on using the same cpu, RAM, etc.

Look at the dates, they didn't make many motherboards to support the Socket 7.
Pentium MMX Socket 7 was introduced 1/7/1997
PII-Slot 1 introduced 5/7/1997

Moore's Law demonstrated
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

[69Z28]

I didn't look past p.8, but everything you need to know is in there.  A different motherboard isn't going to make it any faster, if you intend on using the same cpu, RAM, etc.

Let see, the RAM shouldn't be an issue to start. I found a gentleman locally that has loads of sticks. Other than the CPU what else is there? The graphics card, sound card. The computer is working right now, it just loads the pages a little on the slow side. What would fix that? Or am I even asking the right questions to begin with?


There is a lot more to just changing a motherboard then just swapping all the other internals from one board to another. So, is there a place to go to that has the kind of information step by step that someone would read/need to make something like this work or do I just fumble thru the dark and hope for the best? 

[BC_Programmer]

Look at the dates, they didn't make many motherboards to support the Socket 7.
Pentium MMX Socket 7 was introduced 1/7/1997
PII-Slot 1 introduced 5/7/1997

Incorrect. While the dates are correct, Slot 1 did <NOT> replace Socket 7; in fact, the processor on the slot card was still a Socket 7 processor.

Either way, they went back to Socket 7 (or, more precisely, Super Socket 7) for 98-2000. (you can still use standard Socket 7 processors in Super Socket 7 motherboards, I think)

[Computer_Commando]

Incorrect. While the dates are correct, Slot 1 did <NOT> replace Socket 7; in fact, the processor on the slot card was still a Socket 7 processor.

Either way, they went back to Socket 7 (or, more precisely, Super Socket 7) for 98-2000. (you can still use standard Socket 7 processors in Super Socket 7 motherboards, I think)

Do you mean a Socket 370?  My P3 is a Slot1 with a Slocket adapter for a Socket 370.
I didn't mean to infer that it replaced it, rarely does a new standard completely replace the old, there has always been some overlap.

[Computer_Commando]

Let see, the RAM shouldn't be an issue to start. I found a gentleman locally that has loads of sticks. Other than the CPU what else is there? The graphics card, sound card. The computer is working right now, it just loads the pages a little on the slow side. What would fix that? Or am I even asking the right questions to begin with?


There is a lot more to just changing a motherboard then just swapping all the other internals from one board to another. So, is there a place to go to that has the kind of information step by step that someone would read/need to make something like this work or do I just fumble thru the dark and hope for the best? 

Here's your other thread:  http://www.computerhope.com/forum/index.php/topic,103646.0.html
You currently have 128MB RAM, but what OS are you using?

[69Z28]

This old thing had 98 on it and I installed XP to see if it would go on and it did with no issues. Right now I have it networked to 3 other computers in my home, 2 desktops and a laptop,all with XP, thru a wireless router. 3 are hard wired and one wireless. All working fine with no issues. I'm on the old one now.

[Computer_Commando]

This old thing had 98 on it and I installed XP to see if it would go on and it did with no issues. Right now I have it networked to 3 other computers in my home, 2 desktops and a laptop,all with XP, thru a wireless router. 3 are hard wired and one wireless. All working fine with no issues. I'm on the old one now.

WinXP will be slow with 128MB.  More memory will help.  See p. 2-8 of Manual for the available memory configurations.

[69Z28]

WinXP will be slow with 128MB.  More memory will help.  See p. 2-8 of Manual for the available memory configurations.

I am looking at the page now 2-4 System Memory Configuration. I'm not sure what I'm looking at though. I have 128MB sticks in DIMM 1 and 2 but haven't made any changes to SIMM1 and 2, there is something there though.

[69Z28]

What exactly is the difference between a slot 7 and a slot 1 motherboard then? Other than the Matsonic being a crappy board why wouldn't I not be able to use it? or is it that I won't be able to use my current cards and whatever with a slot 1? I think I getting a little confused now.

[69Z28]

What exactly is the difference between a slot 7 and a slot 1 motherboard then? Other than the Matsonic being a crappy board why wouldn't I not be able to use it? or is it that I won't be able to use my current cards and whatever with a slot 1? I think I getting a little confused now.

Ok. I think I understand the slot deal. Correct me if I'm wrong. I just parted out an old computer my wife brought home from her job. It had 2 Pentium II SL2HA processors with heat sinks and fans, which I still have. These are slot 1 correct? Slot 7 I'm still researching.

I sent mail inquiring about that Matsonic MoBo (slot1) and the reply I rec'vd was the same as posted here not the same as my P55-BT which has a slot 7 processor. So is it safe for me to say that MoBo's don't come with processors, you have to buy that seperate or use what was on the old board? In which case that would do me any good?

[BC_Programmer]

Ok. I think I understand the slot deal. Correct me if I'm wrong. I just parted out an old computer my wife brought home from her job. It had 2 Pentium II SL2HA processors with heat sinks and fans, which I still have. These are slot 1 correct?

Slot 1 uses a slot.

socket 7 is a socket.

[BC_Programmer]

Do you mean a Socket 370? 

No. my Super Socket 7 motherboard was manufactured in late 1999. At which point they had abandoned the slot method (at least, Intel did, AMD gave it a try with some Athlons (Slot A).

[69Z28]

Can we clarify the slot and socket? A slot is what a card, graphics, sound, a Pentium II processor (retangular black box)  can fit into and a socket is what?

[Quantos]

This is what a socket looks like, actually a ZIF(Zero Insertion Force).  Keep in mind some are different colors and different sizes.

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[69Z28]

This is what a socket looks like, actually a ZIF(Zero Insertion Force).  Keep in mind some are different colors and different sizes.

OK. Thanks. So if I happen to find a motherboard compatible to my needs it will not come with a processor normally. Correct?

[Quantos]

OK. Thanks. So if I happen to find a motherboard compatible to my needs it will not come with a processor normally. Correct?

I didn't say that, that is just a picture of a ZIF socket.  Most used motherboards will probably have a processor on them.  As to whether or not they will work is another question entirely.

[69Z28]

I didn't say that, that is just a picture of a ZIF socket.  Most used motherboards will probably have a processor on them.  As to whether or not they will work is another question entirely.

Sorry. That questions relates to one I had asked in an earlier post

[BC_Programmer]

Most used motherboards will probably have a processor on them. 

No- most used motherboards are just that- used motherboards. they are pretty much only kept in stock for replacements, which means the same CPU will be used, so they are usually sold separately. Whatever the more probable scenario you should still check the product page/details to see if it includes the processor or not as required.

[69Z28]

Ok. Thanks.

Next questions. I have 2 Pentium II processors with MMX technology model SL2HA I pulled from an old computer. Would I be able to use these, or one, if I found a board to work with my current cards? Or is it better for me to find , if possible, a board that has the socket 7 and find a socket 7 P2 processor?

If I'm reading what I have researched correctly so far, I believe I am limited to what will fit in my chassis. Pentium III's look to fit in a different chassis altogether. As a matter of fact I have a chassis that looks to be compatible to alot of the motherboards I see on ebay, with the connections for mouse, keyboard, etc. on the edge of the motherboards. Would that be a candidate for me to build something from scratch? Just somethings going thru my mind.

[Computer_Commando]

Slot 1 CPU

Slot 1 slot

Socket 370

Slocket adapter, allows Socket 370 chip to be used in Slot 1 motherboard.

[Computer_Commando]

...1.  I have 2 Pentium II processors with MMX technology model SL2HA I pulled from an old computer. Would I be able to use these, or one, if I found a board to work with my current cards? Or is it better for me to find , if possible, a board that has the socket 7 and find a socket 7 P2 processor?
2.  If I'm reading what I have researched correctly so far, I believe I am limited to what will fit in my chassis. Pentium III's look to fit in a different chassis altogether...

1.  That's a Slot 1 processor, which needs a Slot 1 motherboard.  Pentium II's never used Socket 7.
2.  Pentium III's can be Slot 1 or Socket 370.  Pentium II's were all Slot 1.

[BC_Programmer]

1.  That's a Slot 1 processor, which needs a Slot 1 motherboard.  Pentium II's never used Socket 7.
2.  Pentium III's can be Slot 1 or Socket 370.  Pentium II's were all Slot 1.

This is true. I mgiht also add, that the competition didn't adopt Slot 1; instead sticking with Socket 7 and later Super Socket 7 (K6-2, K6-2+ and the K6-3 from AMD, for example, and the Cyrix M-II processors. I only mention this because sometimes when people say "Pentium II" they implicitly mean "pentium II era" machine.

[Quantos]

I actually remember Cyrix machines, they were ultra cheap(both ways).  I can't believe how crappy they were.

[69Z28]

Ok. I'm back. I decided to go a different route with the old desktop. Instead of changing the motherboard, I'll keep it and change to a different processor. Looking at IT and doing some internet reading based on the info you all provided here the past couple of days it seems to me I can probably go with a socket type Pentium II if there are any to be had. I think this makes better sense.

I was looking at the desktop I parted out that my wife brought home for parts and decided to put everything back in it and boot it up to see what was wrong with it. Booted up with no issues, however it had NT on it and the prior owner had it password protected. So I loaded XP on it. Had a few issues with detecting the drives and ATAPI Incompatible Press F1 to Resume issues as well but got them figured out.

The BIOS (NetPower BIOS REV3.0) is like nothing I have seen before and I had to get on the net to figure some things out but so far it's all good. The only issue I can't figure out and I'm hoping you all can help is in regards to booting up. After the detection page, the next page comes up and at the bottom it has **Loading Boot Record from Floppy...and it asks me to select the OS to start before I can get in to Windows. Not really sure what to do here to correct this. Any ideas? If you have questions just ask.

 

[BC_Programmer]

Ok. I'm back. I decided to go a different route with the old desktop. Instead of changing the motherboard, I'll keep it and change to a different processor. Looking at IT and doing some internet reading based on the info you all provided here the past couple of days it seems to me I can probably go with a socket type Pentium II if there are any to be had. I think this makes better sense.

There aren't any Socket-type Pentium-2 chips; there are socket-type Pentium-2 equivalents (such as the AMD K6-2 or Cyrix M-II) but those go into Super Socket 7 sockets, not Socket 7 (I'm fairly certain they aren't backwards compatible). Your choices are pretty much another Pentium 1 chip (but you can't get much better then the one you have in there) or a K6 chip (which wouldn't be any better either).

The BIOS (NetPower BIOS REV3.0) is like nothing I have seen before and I had to get on the net to figure some things out but so far it's all good. The only issue I can't figure out and I'm hoping you all can help is in regards to booting up. After the detection page, the next page comes up and at the bottom it has **Loading Boot Record from Floppy...and it asks me to select the OS to start before I can get in to Windows. Not really sure what to do here to correct this. Any ideas? If you have questions just ask.

if you have no plans for this "parts" machine it would serve the purpose you were intending the other machine for a lot better.

with regards to the OS choices menu, what Operating Systems are listed? if it's NT4 and XP, you need to reinstall XP by performing a clean install (booting to the install disc) and delete all partitions and create a new one for XP. Or, you could edit boot.ini and remove the choice for NT4, but that just hides it.

[Computer_Commando]

There aren't any Socket-type Pentium-2 chips...

I said Pentium II's are all Slot 1's.

...with regards to the OS choices menu, what Operating Systems are listed? if it's NT4 and XP, you need to reinstall XP by performing a clean install (booting to the install disc) and delete all partitions and create a new one for XP. Or, you could edit boot.ini and remove the choice for NT4, but that just hides it.

He said in Reply #17 that it used to have Win98 and he installed WinXP.  Didn't say if it's Pro or Home or whether he did a "clean install".

[69Z28]

There aren't any Socket-type Pentium-2 chips; there are socket-type Pentium-2 equivalents (such as the AMD K6-2 or Cyrix M-II) but those go into Super Socket 7 sockets, not Socket 7 (I'm fairly certain they aren't backwards compatible). Your choices are pretty much another Pentium 1 chip (but you can't get much better then the one you have in there) or a K6 chip (which wouldn't be any better either).

 


 

with regards to the OS choices menu, what Operating Systems are listed? if it's NT4 and XP, you need to reinstall XP by performing a clean install (booting to the install disc) and delete all partitions and create a new one for XP. Or, you could edit boot.ini and remove the choice for NT4, but that just hides it.

Ok. That helps a bunch. I think I'll go back to W98 with it. It was fairly good with that OS. The only thing is I don't think I can connect to the internet with it. It's only the First Edition and I think I would need at least SE to connect unless you know how?

if you have no plans for this "parts" machine it would serve the purpose you were intending the other machine for a lot better.

Yes that is my plan now. The parts machine works nice and it is faster. Why are there 2 P2 processors?


I'll do a re-install and see what happens.

[69Z28]

I said Pentium II's are all Slot 1's.
He said in Reply #17 that it used to have Win98 and he installed WinXP.  Didn't say if it's Pro or Home or whether he did a "clean install".

XP Home is what I'm using. There was not any reference to NT though. 2 Lines to choose from both said XP Home. Could it be something else or should I just try the clean re-install?

[Computer_Commando]

1.  Instead of changing the motherboard, I'll keep it and change to a different processor. ...I can probably go with a socket type Pentium II if there are any to be had. I think this makes better sense.
2.  I was looking at the desktop I parted out that my wife brought home for parts and decided to put everything back in it and boot it up to see what was wrong with it. Booted up with no issues, however it had NT on it and the prior owner had it password protected. So I loaded XP on it. Had a few issues with detecting the drives and ATAPI Incompatible Press F1 to Resume issues as well but got them figured out.

1.  With that motherboard, you're stuck with what you currently have.  It cannot be upgraded further.
2.  Is this a different machine from the one you're trying to upgrade?

[69Z28]

1.  With that motherboard, you're stuck with what you currently have.  It cannot be upgraded further.
2.  Is this a different machine from the one you're trying to upgrade?

See my reply #35
I put the old computer on hold for the moment and I am working on a diferent one now. It was set up with NT and now has XP Home.

 

[Computer_Commando]

See my reply #35
I put the old computer on hold for the moment and I am working on a diferent one now. It was set up with NT and now has XP Home.

I did, but it wasn't clear to me that there were 2 desktops.  When you say "old computer", they're all old computers.  Give 'em designations like "68Z28" or "69Z28".  If you just say Z28 and you have more than one, well you get the idea.

1.  The only thing is I don't think I can connect to the internet with it. It's only the First Edition and I think I would need at least SE to connect unless you know how?
if you have no plans for this "parts" machine it would serve the purpose you were intending the other machine for a lot better.
2.  Why are there 2 P2 processors?

1.  You can connect to the Internet with any edition of Windows.
2.  The parts machine has 2 P2 cpu's.  Before dual core cpu's, they had dual cpu motherboards.

[69Z28]

I did, but it wasn't clear to me that there were 2 desktops.  When you say "old computer", they're all old computers.  Give 'em designations like "68Z28" or "69Z28".  If you just say Z28 and you have more than one, well you get the idea.
1.  You can connect to the Internet with any edition of Windows.
2.  The parts machine has 2 P2 cpu's.  Before dual core cpu's, they had dual cpu motherboards.

Sorry about that. I'm multitasking. I'm actually working on 4 computers at the same time. Drives my wife nuts.

Old computer that I wanted to change motherboard in is on the back burner for now. The parts machine is what I'm working on now.

[69Z28]

I'm trying to load XP with the 6 floppy disc and I keep getting **The file pci.sys is corrupted** after I install the 3rd floppy. When I loaded XP this way yesterday I didn't have this issue and it also appears I cannot load from the CD as well. Any ideas?


I thought maybe the discs got corrupt somehow so I downloaded the fresh copy of the boot discs for BootDisk.com and retried. Same thing happens.


Thanks

[69Z28]

I found what corrected this issue was by turning off the computer, removing the sound card and installing in a different socket. What a stubborn clean install this was. Ran into all kinds of issues for whatever reason. So far so good. All this was on the the parts machine that I put back together.

Thanks for all the help people.

G

[Computer_Commando]

I found what corrected this issue was by turning off the computer, removing the sound card and installing in a different socket. What a stubborn clean install this was. Ran into all kinds of issues for whatever reason. So far so good. All this was on the the parts machine that I put back together.
...

Now that you're a computer technogeek, cards get installed into slots, not sockets.  The slots consist of edge-card connectors which can be ISA, EISA, AGP, PCI, PCI-Express (1x & 16x).  RAM slots are edge card connectors, too.  There are also card connectors with pins, but you'll never see them on a PC.

CPU's get installed into sockets (ZIF sockets, i.e. Zero Insertion Force) except for the Slot 1 CPU mentioned earlier.  These cpu's are mounted to a card, along with the fan within the plastic housing shown.

[69Z28]

Now that you're a computer technogeek, cards get installed into slots, not sockets.  The slots consist of edge-card connectors which can be ISA, EISA, AGP, PCI, PCI-Express (1x & 16x).  RAM slots are edge card connectors, too.  There are also card connectors with pins, but you'll never see them on a PC.

CPU's get installed into sockets (ZIF sockets, i.e. Zero Insertion Force) except for the Slot 1 CPU mentioned earlier.  These cpu's are mounted to a card, along with the fan within the plastic housing shown.

Sorry...I meant slut, I mean slot, LOL (just my humor). I'm learning. Did alot of reading this past week and I think I fried a few brain cells., but it's all good. Thanks loads for all your help so far. You will get a notch in your gun (THANKED) area from me on this.

Now onto another issue. But I will start a new thread.

Gary