Class Action Law Suit against Obama Health Care

[Broni]

I've never seen so many misstatements of fact

If you're such a factoid person, maybe you should state FACTS, where those misstatements are 

[Broni]

I think, I should become a politician.
I just figured, that NO MORE PAY RAISES is a very brilliant idea.
If I introduce such bill and it passes, we can dismantle a whole IRS, because we won't need it anymore.
Can you imagine, how much money we can save?

According to the above bill, since you make same amount of money every year, you'll pay same tax every year. This year and 50 years from now.
No IRS needed.
Well, maybe couple of people crew.
One to open envelopes with checks.
Second to see, if Mr. Smith paid same amount of money as he did last year.
Third to bring all checks to the bank and...
Fourth one to send "Thank you" notes.
FOUR PEOPLE IRS!
Isn't it brilliant?

[rthompson80819]

First, the Obama health care plan isn't evil.  It has very good intentions.  Whether or not it fulfils it's promise has yet to be seen, but something needs to be done.  I don't have health insurance by the way.

Health care in countries like Canada and the UK are not free.  I don't understand how anybody could think it's free.  You are paying for it with your higher taxes.  If you are out of work, your neighbors are paying for it with their taxes.  It's like saying when you buy an new car the tires and brakes are free.  You are paying for all of it.

It's a lot like paying for insurance.  You might never need that $1.000.000 operation, but you neighbor might, and the cost is spread over a large population to minimize the cost to each individual.

And a lot of Eastern Europe, even if the care is free, the care is so poor that you would be better off going to a vet.

BTY, Broni, I've supported a flat tax for years.  It could easily get the IRS down to the four people you want.

[BC_Programmer]

Health care in countries like Canada and the UK are not free.  I don't understand how anybody could think it's free.  You are paying for it with your higher taxes.  If you are out of work, your neighbors are paying for it with their taxes.  It's like saying when you buy an new car the tires and brakes are free.  You are paying for all of it.

It's "free" in the sense that we pay very similar amounts of taxes, but instead of nearly half of it being put towards "defending the country" from such threats as third world nations on the other side of the globe, it's put towards things that actually benefit everybody.

And a lot of Eastern Europe, even if the care is free, the care is so poor that you would be better off going to a vet.

Didn't you just argue that it wasn't free? That being said, I have no idea what health care is like in Eastern Europe, or anywhere really besides Canada (aside from what I hear, obviously. Now if only we had somebody who used to live in, say, Poland posting here about it...

Oh wait a sec... 

[Broni]

I don't understand how anybody could think it's free.

I'm sorry, but please don't treat us like 1st graders.
Obviously, by "free", we mean, you don't have to pay DIRECTLY.
Surely, money doesn't grow on trees.

If you are out of work, your neighbors are paying for it with their taxes.

Isn't it more like a real democracy, compassion? Anything wrong with it?

And a lot of Eastern Europe

There is no more Eastern Europe per se, unless you think Russia.
All those countries are part of EU for some years now.

BTY, Broni, I've supported a flat tax for years.  It could easily get the IRS down to the four people you want.

I was rather joking, making fun of people, who want to fight to NOT to get something, which is rather ridiculous.

[Broni]

Now if only we had somebody who used to live in, say, Poland posting here about it...

It depends.
During communists time (20 years gone), the health care was totally free, but horrible.
If you had some serious problem, which needed say surgery, you had to pay a lot of money under the table, so they wouldn't kill you, or cut a wrong leg. You had to pay everyone, from a nurse to a doctor.

Since then, all forgotten and Poland is more, or less like the rest of EU. Free public health care.

[rthompson80819]

A quote from Wikpedia.

In Canada total tax and non-tax revenue for every level of government equals about 38.4% of GDP,[2] compared to the U.S. rate of 28.2%.

That more than covers the cost of health insurance.  And when I say Eastern Europe it is mostly the "stans" that have serious medical problems, in large part to civil wars.

[BC_Programmer]

A quote from Wikpedia.

That more than covers the cost of health insurance.  And when I say Eastern Europe it is mostly the "stans" that have serious medical problems, in large part to civil wars.

I agree. mostly because there aren't any countries ending in "Stan" in all of Europe. Well, unless you count kazakhstan, but I don't think that counts as "in europe" anymore then Russia does.

In Canada total tax and non-tax revenue for every level of government equals about 38.4% of GDP,[2] compared to the U.S. rate of 28.2%.

That more than covers the cost of health insurance. 

Canada's GDP: $1.600 trillion, *.384 = 614,400,000,000 in Total revenue. (HAHAHA) Canada has a population of 33,311,400. So, going by these "statistics" each Canadian paid an average of $18,441 in taxes in a year.

what is "wrong" is the fact that such taxes include corporate taxes whose rules and enforcement are hugely difference from how they are applied to the average citizen. This is true both for Canada as well as the U.S, and the rules are different in both, therefore comparing their tax revenue as if it's some concrete number that reflects how much citizens pay in taxes in each country is like comparing apples to oranges.

[Broni]

then Russia does

Off the subject, but since I'm a perfectionist (LOL), geographically, Europe ends at Ural Mountains, deep into Russia.
Now, I can rest

[rthompson80819]

mostly because there aren't any countries ending in "Stan" in all of Europe.  then Russia does.

OK, maybe that's true, maybe I should have added Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania and Macedonia, most of which have medical problems left over from civil wars, and all of which are firmly in Europe.

Even though Russia stretches all the way to the Pacific Ocean, most Russians I've known consider them selves European.

[Broni]

They may consider themselves whatever they want. It does mean, they are 

most of which have medical problems left over from civil wars

Visited, or just heard about it?

[rthompson80819]

Never been there, never want to go there.  But I have read a number of articles and seen more pictures than I wanted to see.   And I have known a Serb that still has family there.

[Broni]

Sure, but what does it have to do with the original subject?

[rthompson80819]

Very little , but I wasn't the only one who changed the subject.  But the original subject was government run health care, and I don't think you could get closer to the subject of government run health care than talking about communist countries.

[Broni]

I don't think you could get closer to the subject of government run health care than talking about communist countries

I see no connection at all.
I lived in communist country for 32 years, so I know first hand.
Communism is nothing but an utopia, which can't exist in normal world for longer period of time.
Free public health care does exist in normal, democratic countries (UE) and there is nothing strange about it.
It works too.

What strange (maybe normal?) is the fact, that in some other countries (should I say just country? US), some people try to NOT to get, what they should be getting, if they believe, they live in normal country.
It's like voting against yourself.
Little bit paranoid, I guess.
More, I'd say, very powerful US propaganda paid for by all kind of lobbies.
For instance, private health insurance companies do everything to make people believe, that the humans don't need any free health care.
...and many people seem to not know, who's hiding behind such idiocy and they're even ready to pay 10 dollars to NOT to have free health care.

Orwell, or Kafka?
Maybe both, or more...