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Author Topic: ISO Hunt - Leagal?  (Read 5456 times)

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Geek-9pm

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ISO Hunt - Leagal?
« on: August 02, 2010, 10:46:41 AM »
Pardon me if this is not news, - 'tis news to me
Apparently it is legal. But they did put up a message about a lawsuit.
I saw this briefly and then the page changed. Every time I reloaded it did the same.
Here is a hasty screen capture...
http://geek9pm.com/gif/iso-hunt.gif
I was not able to capture the text, it would not stay long enough to get it.

The only recent information I found was here:
http://forums.areghost.com/archive/index.php/t-84214.html

What was this about?
Curious minds need to know!


johngetter



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Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 12:23:18 PM »
what!?!  ???




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BradDet



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    Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
    « Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 02:12:54 PM »
    I'm not from USA, but I fail to see why this should be illegal.  The site is a search engine t of find torrents

    Torrents are not illegal, in fact they are a pretty good way to share files over the web, except for certain ISP's who feel the need to squash the bandwidth.

    It's the content that's problematic, and possibly illegal, but ISOHunt is not storing any files on their machine (that I know of), they are simply providing

    Try doing a google search for "inurl:paste-it.net visa".  Can google be blamed for this?
    Brad Detchevery

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    Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
    « Reply #3 on: August 02, 2010, 10:41:09 PM »
    I'm not from USA, but I fail to see why this should be illegal. 


    It's clearly <designed> for searching for illegal content.

    I mean, you have sites called ISO hunt (legal ISOs? yeah right, sure they exist, but clearly that's not what it's designed for) thepiratebay (golly gee we didn't intend for it to be used for pirated content!) and all sorts of other sites. The fact is, if they are, as you said, search engines. but people upload these torrents from their own PCs and it would make sense that, if these sites were actually trying to remain legal, to actually filter those torrents.

    The whole "well it's just searching for the torrent files not the actual copyright data" is simply a level of indirection intended to circumvent the law regarding the issue.

    A Torrent, the protocol itself, and the contents of the file, aren't illegal. But to compare these torrent search engines to google is a bit naive. These torrent search engines are quite clearly designed to return hits for illegal torrents, and there is very little that the administrators do to prevent it, which makes them guilty of "conspiracy to commit criminal copyright infringement" (in the U.S, at the very least, anyway).

    the reason people believe that having torrents that point to copyright data do not subject Torrent search engines to secondary copyright liability is because of a Case files by Universal Studio's against Sony, in which they claim a "precedent" was set:

    Quote
    the Supreme Court found that Sony's new product, the Betamax (the first mass-market consumer videocassette recorder), did not subject Sony to secondary copyright liability because it was capable of substantial non-infringing uses. Decades later, this case became the jumping-off point for all peer-to-peer copyright infringement litigation.

    However, One has to realize that this actually doesn't set any sort of precedent- the Betamax was a physical device, it's use for illegal activity put the maker at legal odds no more then smith & wesson are held responsible for violence and deaths relating to use and misuse of their weapons.

    What a Torrent Site would be akin to in this analogy is a weapon manufacturer that provided instructions on the best ways to kill people and commit crimes with their products. Now, not strictly illegal, but the intent is clear- these weapons are designed for commiting crimes. If such a weapon manufacturer existed and their weapons were used in a murder, they would be guilty of conspiracy to commit murder just as much as an accomplice would.

    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    2x3i5x



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    Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
    « Reply #4 on: August 02, 2010, 11:14:43 PM »
    torrents pointing to copyrighted stuff is like somebody helping commit a crime isn't it?

    BradDet



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      Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
      « Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 02:00:00 PM »
      Quote
      What a Torrent Site would be akin to in this analogy is a weapon manufacturer that provided instructions on the best ways to kill people and commit crimes with their products. Now, not strictly illegal, but the intent is clear- these weapons are designed for commiting crimes. If such a weapon manufacturer existed and their weapons were used in a murder, they would be guilty of conspiracy to commit murder just as much as an accomplice would.

      So what if there were 3 differnt parties involved

      1) The torrent search engine (weapon manufacturer)
      2) Someone seeding the torrent (ie: another guy giving insturctions on how to murder people using the weapons)
      3) The person downloading the torrent (ie: the guy who actually commits the murder)

      Is #1 as guitly as #2?.  I would think #3 is the guilty person and #2 is the accomplice, but I'm still not convinced #1 did anything wrong.

      And they are many legal ISO's.  Most linux distrubtions are available for download as a legal ISO, and some from torrents too.
      Brad Detchevery

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      Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
      « Reply #6 on: August 03, 2010, 02:18:54 PM »
      1) The torrent search engine (weapon manufacturer)
      2) Someone seeding the torrent (ie: another guy giving insturctions on how to murder people using the weapons)
      3) The person downloading the torrent (ie: the guy who actually commits the murder)



      Is #1 as guitly as #2?.  I would think #3 is the guilty person and #2 is the accomplice, but I'm still not convinced #1 did anything wrong.

      #1 is as guilty as #2 simply because they are <designed> intentionally for use with copyright products. People *censored* and complain and say "but it's not <really> illegal" all the while using sites called "thepiratebay" and "ISOhunt" and others clearly intended to distribute copyright material. Your analogy is wrong because #2 is essentially leaving their instructions with #1, and #1 essentially claims "it's not our problem" despite the fact that the instructions are stored on their servers. Apparently the concept of approving each entry is not feasible, (as they claim, "there is no way to make sure everything posted is legal" complete bs and they know it.

      Quote
      And they are many legal ISO's.  Most linux distrubtions are available for download as a legal ISO, and some from torrents too.
      That has nothing to do with this. Sure, there are plenty of legal ISOs. but the vast majority exist as imaged copyright software. It's sort of like RAR files. the compression itself and the file format are perfectly benign but because of the higher compression ratio RAR is almost exclusively used for distributing illegal content. It doesn't make RAR illegal, of course, but that's hardly the position that a torrent search engine has.

      "we're just a search engine, we aren't responsible for any of our content or what our results give back" Is the common defense tactic. It's flawed. First, they are entirely responsible for what results come back. It's not the same as a google search engine; google indexes pages and URLs by keywords. a torrent search site not only indexes the torrent contents themselves but almost always keeps a active torrent tracker; so while it's playing a man in the middle position it's right there in the fray.
      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

      BradDet



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        Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
        « Reply #7 on: August 03, 2010, 03:39:28 PM »
        Perhaps you are judging the book by it's cover?

        I could create a website called '*adult URL*' (I haven't tried that site, not suggesting you visit it).

        Doesn't mean it's intended to contain porn.

        It would seem to me it is censorship to prevent the system for listing certain content just because it maybe used for illegal purposes.

        Even if you don't want to call it a 'search engine'. It is a search "tool".  And it's sad that so many people use this tool for illegal purposes, but I don't pretend to make assumptions about the intent behind the idea of the site or the name without evidence.

        So for example, if there was a memo from the president to the employees saying, 'hey were a site that makes money by letting others illegally exchange material such as movies'.  Then I would agree
        Brad Detchevery

        Geek-9pm

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        Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
        « Reply #8 on: August 03, 2010, 04:04:50 PM »
        Thanks to BC for having r identified the key issues.
        It is not if you think you can evade the law..
        The real issue is if you really break the law.
        Knowingly aiding a criminal in a crime is wrong!
        Like if you drove the getaway car.

        And it is not just a word game, what titles to use and all that.

        Example:
        Amazon.com: 101 Ways to Kill Your Boss (9780452290051)
        It is a legal book.
        And look here:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDe7pvx8phk
        No judge is going to indict Amazon, Google or the author of the Book. Even though the title sounds very bad.
        But the content is very  -> :P

        2x3i5x



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        Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
        « Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 04:11:44 PM »
        it still is a problem if a website with legal intents can be used illegally isn't it?

        reddevilggg



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        Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
        « Reply #10 on: August 03, 2010, 04:26:28 PM »

        The confusion comes from the way we understand legal terms written in English and Legalese, which are 2 different things
        11 cheers for binary !

        Geek-9pm

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        Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
        « Reply #11 on: August 03, 2010, 04:30:45 PM »
        Doing some more research, it seems the following is the best summary of the issue:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IsoHunt
        It was on July 4 that ISO Hunt changed the main page. Elsewhere on the site you can still find some links. They say that they are going to remake the site to compy with the current interpretation of the law.

        Somewhat related to this, Bit Torrent is looking for people to work in San Francisco.

        To grasp the scope of all this, read the like above.
        Quote
        According to isoHunt, the total amount of shared content was more than 10.01 petabytes as of November 22, 2009 ...
        This is not a few guys working in the  garage.

        BradDet



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          Re: ISO Hunt - Leagal?
          « Reply #12 on: August 03, 2010, 06:20:00 PM »
          I'm afraid I still don't 'get it'

          How does Amazon selling a book on 101 Ways to kill your Boss differ in any way from isoHunt returning a torrent link to say the Astroboy movie?

          Also, I can totally search google and find similar content

          http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22Astroboy%22+Last-modified+avi+OR+mov+OR+mpg+OR+mpeg+OR+mp4+%22intitle%3Aindex+of+%22+-inurl%3Ahtm+-inurl%3Ahtml

          I would like to understand more why the technology employed by isoHunt differs legally from the way google does it.

          Napster for example ran into problems because (it is my understanding) that content was actually stored on their site and passed through their networks, so their service was supporting illegal activity.

          And just be clear, I'm not suggesting that isoHunt isn't fully aware their search engine is used for mainly illegal purposes, or even that they are capitalizing on that illegal use, but that' a bit different from saying they setup the site with the intent of it being used illegally.  Perhaps they did - I don't know, I haven't seen evidence either way.
          Brad Detchevery