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Author Topic: water cooling help  (Read 10051 times)

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justinupsm

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    water cooling help
    « on: August 05, 2010, 04:34:15 PM »
    ram

    A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

    video

    HIS H575Q1GD Radeon HD 5750 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP

    cpu

    AMD Phenom II X6 1055T Thuban 2.8GHz 6 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor

    motherboard

    ASUS Crosshair IV Formula AM3 AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

    2 ssds

    OCZ Vertex LE (Limited Edition) OCZSSD2-1VTXLE50G 2.5" 50GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)


    i want to water cool the video, CPU,and chipset

    any suggestions 

    Calum

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    Re: water cooling help
    « Reply #1 on: August 06, 2010, 04:19:10 AM »
    There's no advantage to watercooling your specific system.
    The card doesn't need it, and for the price of watercooling it why not just buy a decent card?
    Chipset doesn't need it, doesn't run hot enough.
    CPU doesn't need it, high end air cooling is more than sufficient to clock most Thubans as high as they will go (if you're doing this for overclocking).

    Carbon Dudeoxide

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    Re: water cooling help
    « Reply #2 on: August 06, 2010, 04:27:46 AM »
    And unlike air-cooled systems, water-cooling requires periodic maintenance.

    Calum

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    Re: water cooling help
    « Reply #3 on: August 06, 2010, 05:17:38 AM »
    You don't clean your air-cooling...?

    Carbon Dudeoxide

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    Re: water cooling help
    « Reply #4 on: August 06, 2010, 06:03:24 AM »
    Maybe once or twice a year i'll clean my cooling pads, but no. I primarily use laptop computers and my desktop fans are in excellent condition....like in a clean-room..... ;D

    Calum

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    Re: water cooling help
    « Reply #5 on: August 06, 2010, 06:10:14 AM »
    The rest of us live in a world with dust ... I clean my desktop (and laptop, if I've used it) every month because I have pets and a very dusty room, doesn't matter how often I vacuum the carpet.  Without fan filters, like with my old Antec 900 case, the dust was unmanageable.
    For most people, cleaning every 6 months or so should be fine, so watercooling doesn't really involve much more maintenance than air, what little there is is certainly outweighed by the advantages (when used wisely, i.e. not in the OP's system).

    Carbon Dudeoxide

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    Re: water cooling help
    « Reply #6 on: August 06, 2010, 06:31:34 AM »
    My friend has a liquid cooling system that uses beer. He has to keep filling up the tank every two-three weeks. Sounds more expensive that cleaning fans....

    Calum

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    Re: water cooling help
    « Reply #7 on: August 06, 2010, 07:26:14 AM »
    Beer?  Most people use, uh, water ... implied in the name.  Topping up a system every 2-3 weeks means he's got serious problems with leaking or evaporation, I suggest he looks into that.  Bringng costs into the argument is meaningless anyhow, I thought we were talking about the need for "periodic maintenance".  There's no question that watercooling is more exensive than air, at least initially - most things that are better do cost more.

    RubiK



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      Re: water cooling help
      « Reply #8 on: August 06, 2010, 07:32:34 AM »
      Topping up a system every 2-3 weeks means he's got serious problems with leaking or evaporation,

      Or it's just a computer that likes its drink?  ;D

      rthompson80819



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      Re: water cooling help
      « Reply #9 on: August 06, 2010, 07:40:11 AM »
      My friend has a liquid cooling system that uses beer. He has to keep filling up the tank every two-three weeks.

      Now that's funny.

      I have this mental picture of one beer for the computer and five beers for me.

      Carbon Dudeoxide

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      Re: water cooling help
      « Reply #10 on: August 06, 2010, 08:15:29 AM »
      I'll have to re-check with him. He may have been screwing with me. I'll get back to you on that. :P


      EDIT: Okay it is 3-part Tsingtao Beer and 1-part cooling liquid.

      Interesting stuff.
      « Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 08:26:23 AM by Carbon Dudeoxide »

      justinupsm

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        Re: water cooling help
        « Reply #11 on: August 07, 2010, 04:10:13 AM »
        well the video dose over heat and i spent to much money to just lay it to the side.

        on the new egg site a review for it sad that his over heated and blue screened a lot he change the cooler out and it hasent did it since. thats what is going wrong with mine and i want to water cool it to try something new.

        Calum

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        Re: water cooling help
        « Reply #12 on: August 07, 2010, 05:07:26 AM »
        I say again - for the price of watercooling, buy a new, better card.
        Or, go down the sensible route and RMA the card if it's overheating.

        justinupsm

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          Re: water cooling help
          « Reply #13 on: August 07, 2010, 08:43:50 AM »
          to late to rma.adn i find nothing wrong with the card it run everything i nedd on high settings

          Calum

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          Re: water cooling help
          « Reply #14 on: August 07, 2010, 08:49:08 AM »
          Nothing wrong, other than that the cooler doesn't work properly?  It's faulty.
          What brand is the card?  I can't believe it's out of warranty.
          Edit: Saw it's HIS, which offer a 2 year warranty.  Are you saying your 5770, released in October 2009, is over 2 years old?

          justinupsm

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            Calum

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            Re: water cooling help
            « Reply #16 on: August 07, 2010, 08:59:35 AM »
            Let me say it again.
            If the card, assuming it's in a normal, properly ventilated case, and not in ambient temperatures outside of it's operating range, is overheating - it is faulty.  The cooler is not working properly, or it is not making proper contact with the GPU.
            Faulty.  Not working.  Damaged.  Broken.  Flawed.  Malfunctioning.
            I just don't understand the mentality of spending easily the cost of a new card on "fixing" the problem, vs. getting a replacement card from the manufacturer under warranty.

            justinupsm

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              Re: water cooling help
              « Reply #17 on: August 07, 2010, 09:02:24 AM »
              its jus to do it and its not just the vgc over kill is always good

              Calum

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              Re: water cooling help
              « Reply #18 on: August 07, 2010, 09:04:10 AM »
              Yes.  I can see the logic.  Spending a few hundred dollars for no gains.
              Oh wait ...
              I'm done, good luck.

              justinupsm

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                Re: water cooling help
                « Reply #19 on: August 07, 2010, 09:06:42 AM »
                well thanks for the useless help

                Salmon Trout

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                Re: water cooling help
                « Reply #20 on: August 07, 2010, 09:17:21 AM »
                well thanks for the useless help

                You got two pages of people giving their honest and knowledgeable opinion, which you seem not to like. No need to post like what we call a "prat" here where I live.

                justinupsm

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                  Re: water cooling help
                  « Reply #21 on: August 07, 2010, 10:57:06 AM »
                  well i dont mean to be that way but i dont want to deal with the hassel of returns and i want to over kill and i have never did water cooling and that one isues is not the only one i have heard of with this card.

                  so i see no reason not to water cool it.

                  BC_Programmer


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                  Re: water cooling help
                  « Reply #22 on: August 07, 2010, 11:02:07 AM »
                  so i see no reason not to water cool it.

                  You didn't see a lot of posts, then.
                  I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                  Salmon Trout

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                  Re: water cooling help
                  « Reply #23 on: August 07, 2010, 11:25:41 AM »
                  He came on here, asked "should I water cool this card?", got told "NO!" by people who know what they are talking about and who gave reasons, he rudely called this "no help", and now he seems set to carry on. Justinupsm, why did you bother asking?

                  BC_Programmer


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                  Re: water cooling help
                  « Reply #24 on: August 07, 2010, 01:32:16 PM »
                  Justinupsm, why did you bother asking?

                  He needs somebody to blame if things go wrong. All he needs is that one person giving a resounding yes and he's off to the races.
                  I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                  Salmon Trout

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                  Re: water cooling help
                  « Reply #25 on: August 07, 2010, 01:39:16 PM »
                  He needs somebody to blame if things go wrong. All he needs is that one person giving a resounding yes and he's off to the races.

                  OK. Justinupsm, you should watercool the h*** outa that mofo!

                  BC_Programmer


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                  Re: water cooling help
                  « Reply #26 on: August 07, 2010, 02:16:10 PM »
                  I Agree.

                  This post is in no way accepting liability or damages resulting from misuse, or improper installation of equipment, or the fact that it will, regardless of how expensive it is, not make your computer faster
                  I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                  Salmon Trout

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                  Re: water cooling help
                  « Reply #27 on: August 07, 2010, 02:19:30 PM »
                  Did you appreciate my sarcastic asterisking of the penultimate 3 letters of "*censored*"?

                  truenorth



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                    Re: water cooling help
                    « Reply #28 on: August 07, 2010, 02:21:49 PM »
                    I think it should definitely be done. No way should you take no for an answer. truenorth

                    hejlik



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                      Re: water cooling help
                      « Reply #29 on: August 07, 2010, 05:45:24 PM »
                      Well to be fair, he didn't ask IF he should water cool.  He said he was  GOING to water cool and wanted suggestions for water cooling systems.  Doesn't matter if we think he should or not.
                      Dan

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                      truenorth



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                        Re: water cooling help
                        « Reply #30 on: August 07, 2010, 05:52:44 PM »
                        "i want to water cool"--"any suggestions "--doesn't equate to doing so--only "wants" to.Seeking suggestions implies indecision and seeking other opinions to me.truenorth

                        rthompson80819



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                        Re: water cooling help
                        « Reply #31 on: August 07, 2010, 06:53:10 PM »
                        I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but:

                        Water and electronics are not a good combination.

                        I wouldn't hesitate to buy a factory made water cooled system WITH a warranty, but I would be very hesitant to add a water cooler system on my own, where a leak could trash my entire system.

                        I've added and changed a lot of stuff to many computers over the years, so I'm not afraid to make changes, but a water cooling system is in a league of it's own.

                        hejlik



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                          Re: water cooling help
                          « Reply #32 on: August 07, 2010, 07:30:43 PM »
                          "i want to water cool"--"any suggestions "--doesn't equate to doing so--only "wants" to.Seeking suggestions implies indecision and seeking other opinions to me.truenorth

                          His other post suggest to me that he wants to water cool, weather it is smart or not.
                          Dan

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                          justinupsm

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                            Re: water cooling help
                            « Reply #33 on: August 07, 2010, 10:41:32 PM »
                            Well to be fair, he didn't ask IF he should water cool.  He said he was  GOING to water cool and wanted suggestions for water cooling systems.  Doesn't matter if we think he should or not.

                            thank you point made i juat wanted to know where to start and how to tell what is a good watch block or pump.

                            justinupsm

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                              Re: water cooling help
                              « Reply #34 on: August 08, 2010, 02:18:37 AM »
                              the graphics card runs around 47c to 55c

                              Salmon Trout

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                              Re: water cooling help
                              « Reply #35 on: August 08, 2010, 03:12:53 AM »
                              the graphics card runs around 47c to 55c

                              I am guessing that is an idle reading. This is perfectly OK. I have seen reviews of 5750 cards where the 100% load temp with stock cooler went over 80. 65 to 75 being typical. A query on an AMD gaming forum "What max temp is OK for a 5750?" produced the answer "Anything below 100C is fine." and "Under full load I've never seen a 57XX series above 85C" Another thread contained "My HIS 5750 IV Cooler hits 65C at Full Load 35C Idle".

                              So you can see that you might see a temperature difference of 30 degrees C or so between idle and sustained full load. Some HD 4870 cards show around 90 on full load.

                              The bottom line is when does the silicon start to malfunction, and when does it suffer irreversible damage. I have read that the statistical lifetime profile for commercial modern-process silicon is roughly halved for every 10 degrees C above 75 degrees C. "core" temperature. What does this mean? In "Gerontology Of Silicon Integrated Circuits" (2000, M I Gorlov and A V Strogonov,  Russian MicroelectronicsVolume 30, Number 2), the "rated lifetime" of "domestic" (i.e. non-military/high spec) ICs is given as 200 x 10^3 hours (25 years is a good enough approximation).

                              One reason why GPUs can run hotter than CPUs is that (I think) the geographical workload in a GPU is probably fairly evenly distributed across the chip. If the chip is at 100°, then the hottest on-chip temp is also probably near 100°. On a CPU, the hardest-working parts of the chip occupy a substantially smaller fraction of the total chip area. I don't think it unreasonable that a CPU with a chip temperature of 60° above ambient while dumping 100W could conceivably have spot temperatures that are 10°, 20°, or more above that.

                              Products like graphic cards are designed for world wide use, from icy Alaska in winter to sweltering India in summer. Many NVIDIA products are rated up to 120C. ATI stuff is said to be OK at "anything under 105". Many people in India are used to idle temps around 60 and full loads over 85. These readings would send many people in the temperate zones running for fancy coolers. Especially teenage gadget heads with money to spend on "number chasing". Many third party hardware companies thrive on this phenomenon.

                              Which brings me to the point. From what you have written, and from a bit of Googling I have done, your card is working perfectly well, is absolutely within its design limits, and does not actually "need" water cooling. If you want to go ahead and fit water cooling, then be aware that you are doing this just because you fancy having a cool* pump and pipes and block etc to gloat over and show your friends and provide a "pride of ownership" feeling. I will not comment on this beyond saying many of have been there too.  There is a problem, however, and that is as follows: due to its physical design, your card cannot take a full water cooling kit, (you were told this in another thread) and...

                              Quote
                              There isn't full cover waterblocks for the 5750, you must get universal GPU blocks but those only cool the GPU and nothing else.

                              So you would only get a partial solution anyway. It would be like putting a bride's dress on a pig. It wouldn't make her any more sexy.

                              Pardon me for saying this, but you have displayed an amazingly cast-iron determination to ignore well meant, well researched and well checked advice, and I am feeling very puzzled why you have chosen to go to a general forum like Computer Hope with your query, when five minutes of Googling would have found you a ton of more specialized forums where gamers, overclockers, and modders all share their knowledge and experience, and where (I suspect) the answers you get might be much less polite than the ones you got here that you didn't like.

                              *No pun intended.



                              « Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 08:59:40 AM by patio »

                              Salmon Trout

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                              Re: water cooling help
                              « Reply #36 on: August 08, 2010, 03:14:16 AM »
                              I wouldn't hesitate to buy a factory made water cooled system WITH a warranty, but I would be very hesitant to add a water cooler system on my own, where a leak could trash my entire system.

                              What he said.

                              Salmon Trout

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                              Re: water cooling help
                              « Reply #37 on: August 08, 2010, 04:28:07 AM »
                              Quote from: Me, above
                              forums where gamers, overclockers, and modders all share there knowledge and experience

                              Oh dear! That post is locked for editing, now. I suppose it's too much to ask a mod to correct it?

                              Quote
                              the statistical lifetime profile for commercial modern-process silicon is roughly halved for every 10 degrees C above 75 degrees C. "core" temperature.

                              So if you ran that GPU at 85 C 24/7, 365 days a year, don't be surprised if it conks out after about 11 or 12 years (although some samples will last longer and some not so long)



                              justinupsm

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                                Re: water cooling help
                                « Reply #38 on: August 08, 2010, 11:05:54 AM »
                                well i do thank y'all for y'alls help. but on a side note my France raises pigs and we are getting married in January.