WikiLeaks

[kpac]

What do you think about it?

[Allan]

I'm afraid of where this thread might go. Let's try to keep it as apolitical as possible please.

And my feeling is that the site (and Mr. Assange) should be classified as a terrorist organization and treated as enemy combatants.

[moro]

Some considered good and some bad
But certain: Hurricane

[Salmon Trout]

I'm afraid of where this thread might go. Let's try to keep it as apolitical as possible please.

I don't see how that is possible. The question of what shall be secret, and what shall be known, about the actions of the US (or any other) government, is a deeply political one.

And my feeling is that the site (and Mr. Assange) should be classified as a terrorist organization and treated as enemy combatants.

Mine, on the other hand is that the site and Assange are true friends of democracy. All of the stories emerging from the WikiLeaks material are important public-interest stories. The job of the media is not to protect those in power from embarrassment. Private Manning, who may have leaked these docs, may in fact be a greater defender of democracy than Clinton, Rice, Bush, Obama etc. One thing that might explain the official hysteria about the revelations is the way they expose how political elites in western democracies have been deceiving their electorates. For example the leaks make it abundantly clear not just that the US-Anglo-European adventure in Afghanistan is doomed but, more important, that the American, British and other Nato governments privately admit that too.  The problem is that they cannot face their electorates – who also happen to be the taxpayers funding this folly – and tell them this. The leaked dispatches from the US ambassador to Afghanistan provide vivid confirmation that the Karzai regime is as corrupt and incompetent as the South Vietnamese regime in Saigon was when the US was propping it up in the 1970s. And they also make it clear that the US is as much a captive of that regime as it was in Vietnam.

I don't know anything about Assange as a person, and I have no thoughts either way about whether he is a rapist or not. I feel that Wikileaks does a lot to strengthen true democracy and I hope they beat the attempts to shut them down.

The attack of WikiLeaks also ought to be a wake-up call for anyone who has rosy fantasies about whose side cloud computing providers are on. Look at Amazon, which dropped WikiLeaks from its Elastic Compute Cloud the moment the going got rough. It seems that Joe Lieberman ["a US senator who suffers from a terminal case of hubris" - The Guardian] harassed the company over the matter. Later Lieberman declared grandly that he would be "asking Amazon about the extent of its relationship with WikiLeaks and what it and other web service providers will do in the future to ensure that their services are not used to distribute stolen, classified information".

[harry 48]

my feelings are the same as yours salmon , assange and his followers ( through his site ) are only interested in free speech and democracy. but this does not go down well with a lot of people in public office and they want everything keep from the public ( for their own good ) there is to much that goes on behind closed doors and when something goes wrong they say its not their fault and they get someone else to blame.

the statements i have heard over this have came from american politicians on tv tonight saying that he was a terrorist and his site was a terrorist organization but they also called for his death , how ridiculous and i think that the statements should be looked upon as incitement to hatred and should cover a long jail term.

when someone like them makes a statement the masses follow and repeat it leading to more hatred.

i'm glad we have free press because it brings out all that's bad no matter who they are and no-one can stop it , and also we have a 50 year law were files , letters, e-mails , everything is made public , hiding nothing.

the arrest was politically motivated because this year a hearing in Sweden cleared him because there was no evidence to be found against him.

and in England other people who have been arrested for *censored* crime get bail and their passport is taken off them.

i hope the leaks continue and for the  people who are afraid of them coming out it shows their true colors and discredits them.

the leaks show what these people think of others behind their back and they do not like that , but also shows them up for being despicable liars.

[kpac]

I'm afraid of where this thread might go. Let's try to keep it as apolitical as possible please.

I had thought of that and I hope it can remain open.

And my feeling is that the site (and Mr. Assange) should be classified as a terrorist organization and treated as enemy combatants.

To be honest, I didn't expect anything else of you, Allan.

For me, I agree with Salmon and Harry.

I also agree with Mr Assange about his suspicions over the Pentagon having something to do with the *censored* abuse cases he's facing. I don't think anything can be done about the site though, there are too many people involved now. The original WL site seems to be offline but there are now about 507 mirrors of the original.

[Allan]

I had thought of that and I hope it can remain open.

I intend to watch the thread closely. As long as opinions are stated without personal, political, or nationalist attacks or abusive comments it's fine. But this type of thread is, by its very nature, likely to create dissension and/or animosity and I intend to step in if that occurs. Regardless of the fact this is in the "off topic" forum, this is still primarily a technical site and threads like this are more suited to forums dedicated to politics or world affairs.

[truenorth]

In this age of advanced technology it should be apparent to all that the opportunity for just about anyone is to be an instant reporter/editor/and paperboy does exist. With that should come a personal sense of propriety and ethical behavior. However as so often is the case the attributes of honesty give way to expediency and bias. It becomes incumbent on all of us when exposed to news regardless of it's source to keep an open mind as to there being other opinions which may be no less valid than our own. If i have any issue with the wikileaks  impact it is that it may endanger peoples lives that are mentioned in the releases. Otherwise i do fervently believe that the long term consequences  will benefit society as a whole. For the most part those noses that are being tweaked belong to people that are supposed to be servants of the public. It is my observation that often they seem to feel it is the other way around. There are two ways i see this leading:
1. People of power and responsibility will become more aware of the impact of their words and be more thoughtful before making utterances or
2.The emphasis on security and sanctions (against those that would reveal their words) become much more rigorous and the emphasis be largely devoted to enabling a continuance of the way things are done today but with far less likelihood of their becoming public.
 A couple of phrases come to mind "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" and like respect -trust is earned.
   When i first saw this post my inclination was to stay away from it. However i think it has developed well and shows promise. truenorth
 

[Salmon Trout]

As long as opinions are stated without personal, political, or nationalist attacks or abusive comments it's fine.

So why did you write this? (Where you nearly go as far as the unspeakable Huckabee in suggesting he be killed):

my feeling is that the site (and Mr. Assange) should be classified as a terrorist organization and treated as enemy combatants.

It seems to me that you are in no position to pontificate and that the other posters to this thread have in fact set you an example in restrained and measured posting.

But this type of thread is, by its very nature, likely to create dissension and/or animosity and I intend to step in if that occurs. Regardless of the fact this is in the "off topic" forum, this is still primarily a technical site and threads like this are more suited to forums dedicated to politics or world affairs.

I really hope that you are not saying that having a conscience or any kind of world view beyond computers is deviant and off-topic for Computer Hope?

[Allan]

So why did you write this? (Where you nearly go as far as the unspeakable Huckabee in suggesting he be killed):

First, I clearly meant personal attacks against other posters in this thread.

Second, my role at CH is to help insure forum rules and regulations are followed, not to impose my personal standards (though I'm sure Nathan would like his staff to use our own common sense whenever possible). As to what is or is not deviant and off-topic, here is a quote from the posted forum rules:

Religion and politics

Posts can be made in the off-topic section only about religion and politics as long as they're purely informative and contain no bias.

Last, regarding the above quoted comment from my post: my undergraduate degree is in English and I think I have a pretty fair command of the language. When I want to say something, I say it. Please do not put words in my mouth.

[kpac]

Okay. Stop for crying out loud. This isn't a courtroom. This topic was created just for opinions on a certain topical news story at the minute, not to turn into an argument.

[Allan]

Okay. Stop for crying out loud. This isn't a courtroom. This topic was created just for opinions on a certain topical news story at the minute, not to turn into an argument.

You're the one who started this thread. What exactly did you expect when you created a topic on what is clearly a highly controversial issue? And so far it hasn't gotten TOOOOO far out of bounds - though it's clearly headed that way.

[kpac]

You're the one who started this thread.

Yes, and you were the first one to post a controversial response.

Actually just go ahead and close it, because as long as you're posting it's not going to go too well anyway.

[Allan]

Controversial? I posted exactly what you asked for - my opinion on the subject. By definition, any response to your question is going to be controversial. And you're right - I'm going to close the thread before I say something I'll regret!

[CBMatt]

Religion and politics

Posts can be made in the off-topic section only about religion and politics as long as they're purely informative and contain no bias.

Methinks we might need to rephrase this bit somewhat to either allow some freedom on the subjects or to not allow discussion on the matter at all because it's nearly impossible to talk about religion or politics without expressing bias.  I personally don't believe in politics or religion, so I've never seen either as a touchy subject, but many people do and they feel compelled to be outspoken about the matters.  As long as everyone is respectful of each other and their opinions, I see no harm.  That won't last, of course, but it's worth a shot.