ISA to PCI

[k_mohsen]

Hi
Old days PCs have ISA slot for installing expansion card. Now, PCs have PCI.
In our Lab. an ISA expansion card connect measuring instrument, SIMS, to old PC, that run Win98 and has ISA expansion slot. Now, we want to change old PC with new one.

Therefore, my main question is:
How can I connect ISA expansion card to new PC (that has no ISA expansion slot)?

Note:
Price of the measuring instrument, SIMS, is about 4 million dollar and fixing probable problem is about thousands dollar. Price for new Expansion card based on PCI is about 6000$.
So, there is no risk for experiment. If the expansion card gone, we have to pay 6000$ and buy new one. 

Thanks everyone …

[Salmon Trout]

There are devices called "PCI to ISA bridges" but you can still get new computers with ISA cards. Not consumer or office type PCs, but proper industrial ones. Maybe one could be built around an industrial motherboard such as the iBASE M930 which has 1 x PCI-E(x16), 1 x PCI-E(x1), 4 PCI, 1 x ISA (slave) slots. This has the Intel Q35 Express Chipset supporting Core2 Quad / Core2 Duo processors. I am not aware of pricing.

http://www.ibasetechnology.net/mb930.html

Or there is another company called NIXSYS which supplies computers with multiple ISA slots from around $600 in ordinary desktop and rackmount formats

http://www.nixsys.com/index.php/products/isa-slot-workstation-and-servers.html?gclid=COLC9O2k_qcCFcod4QodPjPhrg

These are just two examples. If you are researching a mission critical hardware replacement you really require more specialised help. But I guess right now you are just beginning to research this. If you just type "ISA slot computer" into Google you will find dozens of suppliers of boards and assembled systems.

[WillyW]

http://www.arstech.com/item--usb2isa1.html

But wait and see what others have to say about it, regarding reliability, etc.

[k_mohsen]

Thanks Salmon Trout

I always think the ISA slot is dead in world of the computer.
Your recommend,
http://www.nixsys.com/index.php/products/isa-slot-workstation-and-servers.html?gclid=COLC9O2k_qcCFcod4QodPjPhrg
is so safe for my works and no risk

thanks again

[soybean]

Whew, this is one of the more bizarre posts I've seen in awhile. 

Note:
Price of the measuring instrument, SIMS, is about 4 million dollar and fixing probable problem is about thousands dollar. Price for new Expansion card based on PCI is about 6000$.
So, there is no risk for experiment. If the expansion card gone, we have to pay 6000$ and buy new one. 

Where are you getting these dollar values?  They're totally absurd.  You could buy a new computer for a few hundred $.

Old days PCs have ISA slot for installing expansion card. Now, PCs have PCI.
In our Lab. an ISA expansion card connect measuring instrument, SIMS, to old PC, that run Win98 and has ISA expansion slot. Now, we want to change old PC with new one.

Therefore, my main question is:
How can I connect ISA expansion card to new PC (that has no ISA expansion slot)?

Specifically, what type of expansion care are you talking about?  Surely, the device you're talking about is available in a newer PCI or PCIe format.

[patio]

Unreal...hire me.

And i'll bring Soybean along as an advisor...at the going rate ...

[Salmon Trout]

Whew, this is one of the more bizarre posts I've seen in awhile.  Where are you getting these dollar values?  They're totally absurd.  You could buy a new computer for a few hundred $.
Specifically, what type of expansion care are you talking about?  Surely, the device you're talking about is available in a newer PCI or PCIe format.

Come on guys. It doesn't seem bizarre to me. Yes we know that ordinary home or office PCs only cost a few hundred US dollars. A lot of laboratory and industrial equipment is controlled by PCs. The value of the equipment may be many times the cost of a PC. Think about electron microscopes or gas chromatography equipment or 101 other kinds of high tech gear. Specialised ISA cards (still an industry standard) which are manufactured in small quantities to high specifications can also be expensive. THis is not a mass produced consumer grade expansion card we are talking about here. SIM GmbH is a German state of the art company focused on activities in the field of chromatography. I can easily imagine 4 million dollars worth of their equipment, if this is who k_mohsen meant by SIMS. Maybe you didn't read the question very carefully?

[soybean]

Well, Salmon Trout, what is "SIMS"?  My Google search shows nothing about some kind of testing equipment by that name? 

[patio]

But he's not looking to replace a gas chromatography  or electron microscope piece of equipment...

[Salmon Trout]

But he's not looking to replace a gas chromatography  or electron microscope piece of equipment...

No. he wants or needs to replace the computer controlling it. And the interface is a specialised expansion card which would cost $6000 to replace. So to save this expenditure he wants a PC -- with an ISA slot -- that costs less than $6000. Which he has been guided towards.

[Salmon Trout]

Well, Salmon Trout, what is "SIMS"?  My Google search shows nothing about some kind of testing equipment by that name?

Maybe you didn't search properly.

Have I said or done something to annoy you people? What's with the doubt and undermining and quibbling?

Secondary-ion mass spectrometry is what I believe he is referring to. Secondary ion mass spectrometry (SIMS) is a technique used in materials science and surface science to analyze the composition of solid surfaces and thin films by sputtering the surface of the specimen with a focused primary ion beam and collecting and analyzing ejected secondary ions. These secondary ions are measured with a mass spectrometer to determine the elemental, isotopic, or molecular composition of the surface. SIMS is the most sensitive surface analysis technique, being able to detect elements present in the parts per billion range. Dependent on the SIMS type, there are three basic analyzers available: sector, quadrupole, and time-of-flight. A sector field mass spectrometer uses a combination of an electrostatic analyzer and a magnetic analyzer to separate the secondary ions by their mass to charge ratio. A quadrupole mass analyzer separates the masses by resonant electric fields, which allow only the selected masses to pass through. The time of flight mass analyzer separates the ions in a field-free drift path according to their kinetic energy. It requires pulsed secondary ion generation using either a pulsed primary ion gun or a pulsed secondary ion extraction. It is the only analyzer type able to detect all generated secondary ions simultaneously, and is the standard analyzer for static SIMS instruments.

Here is a time-of-flight secondary ion mass spectrometer, that looks like it cost every cent of 4 million dollars. The PC controlling it is on the desk to the left.

[patio]

I wasn't quibbling...
Merely suggesting they may not be locked into an ISA solution for their issues...there may be alternatives...that's all.

[Salmon Trout]

k_mohsen, you could email the manufacturers of the SIMS or maybe Mr.Subhash Lokhre in the SIMS Laboratory at IIT Bombay and ask what the PC is that they use...

http://www.rsic.iitb.ac.in/SIMS.html

[Salmon Trout]

I wasn't quibbling...
Merely suggesting they may not be locked into an ISA solution for their issues...there may be alternatives...that's all.

Yes, $6000 for a PCI card I believe... and no, you weren't quibbling. A lot of industrial and scientific equipment still uses ISA.

[soybean]

Maybe you didn't search properly.

Have I said or done something to annoy you people? What's with the doubt and undermining and quibbling?

I simply searched on SIMS.  Without knowing about the meaning of the acronym as it's being used here, how else could I have searched? 

And, without knowing the meaning of SIMS, as used here, yes, I definitely was skeptical about the dollar amounts he was stating.  And, I think most people reading this would have been skeptical.  I mean, come on now, how many of us are familiar with Secondary-ion mass spectrometry and the acronym for such testing equipment?  The original post should have spelled out the meaning of the acronym in this case. 

[Computer_Commando]

Yes, $6000 for a PCI card I believe... and no, you weren't quibbling. A lot of industrial and scientific equipment still uses ISA.

That's for sure!  What do they think is in a nuclear power plant that was designed and built 40 years ago?  Lots of old stuff with lots of old chips.  There's a big market for old electronics because they can salvage the old chips for use in replacement components in all kinds of industrial and scientific equipment.

[Salmon Trout]

This locomotive, the BR class 91, not yet half way through its service life, has a control system that uses the 8086 microprocessor, and they had trouble sourcing new ones a few years ago when they were being refurbished.

[Computer_Commando]

...has a control system that uses the 8086 microprocessor, and they had trouble sourcing new ones a few years ago when they were being refurbished...

They probably paid 10X what it cost new!  Still a bargain...considering the alternative.

[BC_Programmer]

Why is the concept of specialized hardware so unbelievable? Why is it seemingly expected that software costs thousands of dollars for specialized applications and yet even the idea of specialized hardware in that dollar range is "absurd"?

Is there actually a belief that industries just plonk down a run of the mill desktop from wal-mart or something for interfacing with sophisticated scientific and industrial equipment?

There is a good reason that things like this have a habit to use older equipment- it works. There is no reason, ever, to change what works. Especially when upgrading a system like it can cost "absurd" amounts of money and often results in more problems down the road, and in some industries loss of life or the loss of entire research datasets because of a simple mistake. Look at something like the train. They don't just decide "well, we need the latest and greatest!" because the best case scenario is exactly the same as it already is. Companies don't invest in things that have no gain. If they were to upgrade the trains processor at some point to a 486 based control unit, there would be no difference. It would still work exactly the same. And if they were to upgrade to a early pentium who knows what the FDIV issue could have caused. a miscalculated value of a few cents on a excel spreadsheet on Joe Average's machine is a lot less of a problem then a derailed train due to a miscalculated division or something. The only reason for upgrade is due to corporate necessity, such as the current equipment being damaged or otherwise non-functional, or in some way no longer suitable for the current purpose.

[k_mohsen]

Sorry man, I must explain the definition of "SIMS". SIMS is abbreviation of "Secondary ion mass spectrometry" and Salmon Trout very well define this instrument in his post.

Thanks Salmon Trout, you look familiar with Lab instrument

Main problem of many Lab is replacing old or broken parts of a measuring instrument. The manufacturer of advanced Lab instrument in 1 or 2 years only sell one instrument. So, how they earn, that I say. The main source of their earning is selling accessories and old/broken parts. Sometimes they sell this parts 2x of real price. it's nettlesome but it's true.
for this instrument, if we change expansion card, we may have to change its software. maybe new expansion card connect to instrument with new type of cable.

some manufacturer of Lab instrument instead of encountering about some involutedly port like USB or Ethernet focused on their instrument and release their products that connect to PC with simple port like ISA or serial. recently our Lab buy a DSC (Differential scanning calorimetry) that connect to PC via COME port.

thanks Salmon Trout
thanks everyone