3rd hard drive or replace hd

[soybean]

truenorth, thanks for the offer.  However, I see that I can get it from Amazon.com if I decide to get it.  It has a nice feature set and I'm quite tempted.  Anyway, for everyone's info, this device can be purchased at http://www.amazon.com/USB-Esata-Dock-with-Reader/dp/B0021VBB18/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1310908281&sr=1-1

[patio]

Review Here...

1 customer claims it's not actually eSATA...which means it wouldn't be hot swappable...and slower transfer speeds...

[soybean]

Review Here...

1 customer claims it's not actually eSATA...which means it wouldn't be hot swappable...and slower transfer speeds...

Hi patio. Yes, I noticed that erroneous labeling on amazon.com as being eSATA and I had read that review prior to my last post.  So, yes, it connects to the computer via USB, so is slower than eSATA.  However, it would still be hot swappable since it's USB, wouldn't it?

[patio]

I don't believe so...you would need to use "safely remove hardware"...
Only eSATA is hot swappable...

[soybean]

Well, USB is hot-swappable.  That's one of it's advantages over older technology.  The "safely remove hardware" is not necessarily synonymous with "hot swappable".  Or, in other words, having to use the "safely remove hardware" procedure does not mean a device is not hot swappable. Safely Remove Hardware is merely a way to preventing lost or damaged data due to removing a device while it's still in use; it's a way of assuring the user that the system is no longer using the device and, therefore, removal is safe.  Absence of hot swapping capability means the computer needs to be shutdown when connecting or dis-connecting a device. 

[patio]

I politely disagree...how many Posts over the years have we seen a USB external HDD being reported as RAW ? ?
This is from disconnecting it when it is still in a read/write stage...
That being said is why i don't buy into a USB HDD as being hot swappable.

[thiemeje]

Hot-Swapable means that an item can be plugged into a system that is powered on. So any USB item is hot swappable..  the "safely remove items" feature does not mean that its not hot-swapable it only ensures that the item ie external HD is properly disconnected from your computer so it does not get corrutped during disconnection.. due to writing/reading if a HD is in the process of writing and you take power from it there is a chance the HD will get corrupted which is why you should always "safely remove"

EDIT: also the safely remove feature does not remove power from the item it just makes it so the item stops what its doing ie writing/reading...

[soybean]

Hot-Swapable means that an item can be plugged into a system that is powered on. So any USB item is hot swappable..  the "safely remove items" feature does not mean that its not hot-swapable it only ensures that the item ie external HD is properly disconnected from your computer so it does not get corrutped during disconnection.. due to writing/reading if a HD is in the process of writing and you take power from it there is a chance the HD will get corrupted which is why you should always "safely remove"

EDIT: also the safely remove feature does not remove power from the item it just makes it so the item stops what its doing ie writing/reading...

Exactly.

[thiemeje]

I politely disagree...how many Posts over the years have we seen a USB external HDD being reported as RAW ? ?
This is from disconnecting it when it is still in a read/write stage...
That being said is why i don't buy into a USB HDD as being hot swappable.

Other than my completly 100% true statement about the hot-swapable feature, remember people are flawed and forget that they have a $100 plus HD connected and maybe writing while they descide to disconnect it. Remember people if its connected to your computer from the outside "SAFELY REMOVE" no matter what it is.. good practice is worth the 10 seconds to safely disconnect something rather than $100+ to replace it.

[patio]

Hot swappable means it can be both plugged in with power and removed in the same state...

I'm not gonna get into an argument over this...look it up.

EDIT: also the safely remove feature does not remove power from the item it just makes it so the item stops what its doing ie writing/reading...

i Never stated anything to the contrary...

[thiemeje]

not argueing at all i was just stateing a fact and yes your right.. but External HD's are hotswappable, this does not mean however that you can unplug them without ensuring that they are not writing when you do

[patio]

this does not mean however that you can unplug them without ensuring that they are not writing when you do

Then their not hot swappable.....see where i'm goin with this ? ?

[thiemeje]

lol not really, they are hotswappable.. you just have to ensure they arnt writing at the time you disconnect them. "safely remove items" doesnt remove power from the item it just ensure that the items in a read/write state anymore so that it can be removed without being corrupted.

[BC_Programmer]

Then their not hot swappable.....see where i'm goin with this ? ?

eSATA also requires you to use "safely remove hardware", in order to unplug it whenever you want. (well, not requires, but for good sense. sort of like running smartdrv /c to clear the write-cache on an old DOS machine before powering down)

USB is hot swappable in the very same way. The only reason mass storage devices require that stupid "safely remove" nonsense is because of write-caching, which, for removable drives, it utterly retarded. Once the light stops blinking on the device to indicate it isn't being dealt with, it should be in a bloody consistent state As far as I'm concerned, the way it is done now is broken. The fact that drives end up being corrupted is because of brain-dead driver implementations, in the name of speed, not because the protocol is not inherently hot-swappable. Additionally- the same problems will occur with a eSATA Drive; it is, in that regard, no more hot-swappable than USB is.


More importantly: the definition of hot-swappable just means the computer will "know" about the change without a reboot. Thus the term "hot". For example: PS/2 keyboards are not hot-swappable. But USB keyboards are. Same with Mice. IDE drives aren't "hot swappable"; you need to power down the computer. Same with add-on cards- you can't "hot swap" them.

USB however, you don't need to power down to swap devices around.

[thiemeje]

 id like to qote a wikipedia.. just to clerify what everyone is talking about here..

Hot swapping and hot plugging are terms used to describe the functions of replacing computer system components without shutting down the system. More specifically, hot swapping describes replacing components without significant interruption to the system, while hot plugging describes the addition of components that would expand the system without significant interruption to the operation of the system.[1] Once the appropriate software is installed on the computer, a user can plug and unplug the component without rebooting. A well-known example of this functionality is the Universal Serial Bus (USB) that allows users to add or remove peripheral components such as a mouse, keyboard, or printer.

Reasons for hot-swappingHot swapping is used whenever it is desirable to change the configuration or repair a working system without interrupting its operation. It may simply be for convenience, to avoid the delay and nuisance of shutting down and then restarting complex equipment, or because it is essential that the equipment be permanently available.

Hot swapping may be used to add or remove peripherals or components, to allow a device to synchronize data with a computer, and to replace faulty modules without interrupting equipment operation.

Equipment may be designed with redundancy so that in the event of the failure of a component, other parts of the system carry out its functions while the faulty component is removed and a replacement connected. For example, computer RAID disk arrays allow a faulty disk to be hot-swapped for a new one; the new one is configured to become part of the array automatically or by user command. A machine may have dual power supplies, each adequate to power the machine; a faulty one may be hot-swapped.

Hot swapping can also be used as a means for circumventing security measures preventing the execution of unsigned code, a common example of this is hot swapping the Microsoft Xbox Console hard drive.

for more details please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_swapping