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Author Topic: Swap Guts or Dont Bother?  (Read 4463 times)

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DaveLembke

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Swap Guts or Dont Bother?
« on: March 15, 2013, 01:52:27 PM »
I have two computers, one has a more powerful CPU and slower DDR2 800 Mhz Ram, and the other has a lesser powerful CPU and faster DDR3 1333Mhz Ram.

Hardware info:

Computer #1
Athlon II x4 620 AM3 2.6Ghz stuffed into a AM2+ Motherboard (from 2008) running 800Mhz DDR2 Ram 4GB ( This motherboard supports up to Phenom II x4 945 )

Computer #2
Sempron x1 145 AM3 2.8Ghz stuffed into a AM3 Motherboard (from 2011) running 1333Mhz DDR3 Ram 4GB (This motherboard supports up to Phenom II x6 1075T )

Before swapping CPU's between these 2 systems, I decided to post here to see if its even worth performing. Will I notice a difference moving that quadcore CPU out of the potentially bottlenecked motherboard runing DDR2 stuffing the CPU into a newer motherboard that I have that is DDR3 or is the swap not worth wasting the time and thermal compound?

Both systems run fast, no lag with the quadcore in that AM2+ motherboard, but in the back of my mind I was thinking that maybe it will run even faster and I am not taking full advantage of its performance.

Has anyone performed maybe an upgrade keeping same CPU and upgrading to a newer motherboard with faster RAM to tell if it really makes a difference or not?

Thanks

Geek-9pm


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Re: Swap Guts or Dont Bother?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 02:13:52 PM »
In general, three things influence speed:
1. What  kind of CPU
2. Clock of CPU
3. Clock of RAM and amount of RAM.

Did you read this?

Re: How to overclock





DaveLembke

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Re: Swap Guts or Dont Bother?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 03:05:46 PM »
Those 3 listed I was already aware of + I would like to add that #4 on that performance list should probably also be the chipset of the motherboard. Some have been known to be junk compared to others when it comes to performance.

Computer #1 the AM2+ motherboard has older chipset with GeForce 6150 and nForce 430

whereas...

Computer #2 the AM3 motherboard has the newer AMD 760G chipset.

*Havent found anything online yet to show measurable differences between them, but I can only assume that more modern AMD 760G chipset may come with performance advantages over the older nVidia chipset with keeping the existing quadcore CPU.

Fact is that the DDR2 800Mhz RAM is slower than the DDR3 1333Mhz RAM, (BUT) is the performance gain significant enough to be worth while to swap the CPU's between these boards I guess I am asking?

Is it going to be like night and day difference where I instantly see faster performance due to the fact that I was bottlenecking the full potential of the quadcore in the AM2+ motherboard that all of a sudden with the faster DDR3 RAM I am looking at a noticable difference or would I be for example making just a small advance in speed increase in which I am only shedding 1 second off of a load time for a videogame that otherwise runs with no problems on the slower memory.

This is a first time of thinking about migrating a CPU that was worth while to me to be migrated forward to more modern motherboard with faster RAM. But generally motherboards for the last 25+ years that I have been working on them were that the (CPU, Motherboard, RAM) were upgraded as a set usually because all 3 were at the end of their life cycle, or if not at the end of their life cycle, as better faster/more powerful data crunching components became available as they became affordable or acquired inexpensively, I'd end up installing more or faster RAM added of the same style such as SIMMs, DIMMs, RDRAM, SDRAM, DDR, DDR2, and DDR3 etc(whatever the memory slot and motherboard supported in relation to the CPU etc), or stuffing a faster CPU into the socket with more cache etc if the motherboards supported these performance increases. And then when the Motherboard, CPU, RAM combination hit its limit, I would buy a new Motherboard, CPU, and RAM and follow the same cycle as the prior computers used of stretching the life of the motherboard until its at its limits, and then upgrade all 3 hardware. This time though because of the cool AMD socket design of the AM2+, I started off with an AM2 x2 core CPU in 2008, and in 2010 installed an AM3 x4 core CPU. And in 2011 I needed to build up a cheap server, so I bought an AM3 motherboard, $40 Sempron 145 AM3 CPU, and 4GB of DDR3 and built it up and used it for its purpose. But the other day when I was adding an additional hard drive to this box I realized I could perform an upgrade for free with hardware I already have and the single-core Sempron Server would run plenty fast on DDR2 RAM.

But its not just going to involve swapping of the CPU's and applying new thermal compound, but I am also looking at potentially breaking the OS on both systems by drastic CPU changes. Usually sticking with the same processor family the system will boot and the Windows Activations will become broken, just requiring to activate with microsoft, but I have also run into situations where you have to perform a repair installation on a system when the CPU changed too drastically, and that is why I am running this past everyone here, is because it would be a shame to waste say 3 hrs time swapping CPU's and corrective actions for OS on both systems and not see any gain in performance because the gain is so small.

As far as overclocking, I avoid overclocking whenever possible, even if its safer today than in yester-years. I have done it before, but in the past it was to get an old dog to do new tricks back in the days when new computers were $1500 to 2000, and to run Quake 1 without lag, I ended up overclocking my 486DX2 66Mhz to 75Mhz using 25Mhz FSB x 3 instead of 33Mhz FSB x 2 and had a large peel and stick on aluminum heatsink without fan and I added a fan to blow across it. It worked for a few months and then the CPU melted down ( destabilized ). I then acquired a Pentium 75Mhz Dell tower for $25 at a computer show/swap meet (tower with no drives, just tower case and motherboard, cpu, and 32 MB EDO DIMM RAM) which ran the game way better back in the days of the Pentium II 233Mhz hitting the markets in 1997 ish. But then I was soon faced with Quake II coming out not to long later that required a Pentium 90Mhz minimum requirements and I was stuck once again in a situation of a computer that is too slow, and fortunately acquired a Pentium 133 that was being thrown away around 1998 to be able to run Quake II, although my friends who had rich parents bought them nice Pentium II 233 to 450Mhz systems with VooDoo Banshee cards etc that I wish i could have had myself for gaming. I myself had a Trident 8MB PCI videocard, while they had like 16MB of Video Ram and a GPU intended for games.


DaveLembke

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Re: Swap Guts or Dont Bother?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2013, 03:52:20 PM »
http://www.thebuzzmedia.com/ddr2-800-vs-ddr3-1333-does-speed-matter/

In my quest for info on this, I finally found a good match to what I was looking for at google with different keywords.

Fact is according to this, there is NO Advantage to making this CPU swap worth while...

YAY this will no longer bother me that I could have been holding my system back from its full potential. Its running at its full potential according to benchmark data that is similar to my hardware.

And regarding the older nVidia nForce 430 Chipset vs the newer AMD 760G Chipset... I could not find any data to suggest that one is more efficient than the other etc to affect performance.

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Re: Swap Guts or Dont Bother?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2013, 04:44:29 PM »
If your motherboard supports overclocking & you don't try getting too crazy about it, it's the cheapest way to get a small performance boost.  I now overclock my Pentium D925-3.0GHz to 3.6GHz.  Temp rise is no more than 10degC

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Re: Swap Guts or Dont Bother?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 06:47:55 PM »
If your motherboard supports overclocking & you don't try getting too crazy about it, it's the cheapest way to get a small performance boost.  I now overclock my Pentium D925-3.0GHz to 3.6GHz.  Temp rise is no more than 10degC
Exactly!

DaveLembke

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Re: Swap Guts or Dont Bother?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 06:50:45 PM »
Are you having to liquid cool it or just a regular massive heatsink and fan?

The last CPU I overclocked was a 486 DX2 66Mhz to 75 Mhz and the extra 9Mhz caused it to roast even with a larger than normal heatsink and fan.  This was to achieve better performance with Quake 1. The hotspot lead to it destabilizing and lead to the 486 getting cooked. Tried to bring it back to native clock of 66Mhz and it was never the same. Fortunately back then I scored a Pentium 75Mhz to replace it many years ago in the late 1990's which handled Quake 1 way better, but then Quake 2 came out and I needed 90Mhz and didnt dare try to push the Pentium 75 and be without a computer..LOL

The Athlon II x4 (620) 2.6Ghz is plenty of power for now. I was mainly concerned that I may have bottlenecked it with the DDR2 800Mhz RAM, but info online suggests that I haven't. Maybe in a few years if it starts to feel laggy I will get a larger heatsink or liquid cool it and over clock it to 3.2 Ghz which I have seen info on it working out well.

Currently it has a heatsink rated for 65Watt CPU and its a 95Watt CPU, but my CPU temp never reaches 50C even when gaming. My prior CPU in this board was a Sempron x2 2.00Ghz that came bundled with the motherboard from Newegg for like $65 back in April 2009, and that CPU was 45 Watts and the heatsink was only about 1/3 as tall as this current 65watt Foxconn heatsink.

 The CPU fan seized up on it about 2 years ago while the Sempron x2 was in it still, a few weeks before getting the Athlon II x4 620 for free from a friend that I upgraded to Phenom II x6. I bought a 65watt heatsink to replace the one with the seized fan. I figured that if the temp would rise too hot that I would just get a 95watt or greater rated heatsink for it, but it has been fine on the large chunk of aluminum 65watt Foxconn brand one. I also have in my BIOS setup for automatic fan speed stepping so as it gets hotter it increases the fan speeds, but I have only heard the fans speed up a few times with Driver San Francisco and not with any other games, and they are not spinning at 100% speed which would indicate a heat issue. I also was using speedfan for a while to keep track of temps, hottest seen was 46C during gameplay, minimizing the game to go back to desktop quickly to look at speedfan CPU temp reading. I also dont use that cheap white silicone thermal compound, I always use artic silver to bond heatsink to CPU or GPU's etc.

*Also to mention, I have (cool'n'quiet) AMD's Speed Stepping enabled. It idles around 780Mhz and then on the fly quickly steps up to 1300, 1800 or 2600Mhz as processing power is needed and goes back to rested state of 780Mhz. Absolutely no lag noticed with this feature enabled. Having cool'n'quiet aka Speed Stepping disabled did not show a performance gain, so I left it enabled to save power and reduce unnecessary heat.

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Re: Swap Guts or Dont Bother?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2013, 08:34:05 PM »
Are you having to liquid cool it or just a regular massive heatsink and fan?...
Intel CPU fan was pretty good, but was having problems with the clamps.
Got an Arctic Freezer Pro 7 for a good price.  It doesn't get the best rating but is more effective than the stock Intel.  Arctic has much better mounting design.  Bracket mounts to mobo with push-in ratcheting clips.  Heatsink screws to clamp.  Does not require removing mobo from case.  Fan is PWM.
http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/cpu/4/freezer-7-pro-rev.-2.html?c=2181

The Gigabyte mobo is DDR2-800, with heat spreaders that came attached to the sticks.  The Pentium D-925 is 95W.

Overclocking the 486DX2 didn't do much.  Overclocking the original Pentium 60, 75 or 90 was a guarantee of failure.  They ran super-hot in normal mode.

Speedfan is never up to date.  Use HWInfo, which I use for real-time monitoring of temps & fan speeds.  I have it running on this notebook now, fan speed is 0rpm, temp is 53degC, controller turns it on at 60 off at 50, but that's a different story.