Welcome guest. Before posting on our computer help forum, you must register. Click here it's easy and free.

Author Topic: Device which assigns a virtual serial port  (Read 4919 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

geoffl

    Topic Starter


    Intermediate

    • Experience: Beginner
    • OS: Unknown
    Device which assigns a virtual serial port
    « on: June 24, 2013, 05:17:38 AM »
    Hi,
    I have a USB device which assigns a virtual serial port "the next available" when it is plugged in. I have 4 computers. On one computer the port is com1, on the next it is com3, the next com11 and the last com14. The computer with com11 device manager shows the only other port as LPT1. Why the different ports? Can I choose the port number? I need to find the address of this port.
    Regards

    Geoffl

    Geek-9pm


      Mastermind
    • Geek After Dark
    • Thanked: 1026
      • Gekk9pm bnlog
    • Certifications: List
    • Computer: Specs
    • Experience: Expert
    • OS: Windows 10
    Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
    « Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 07:48:30 PM »
    Quote
    USB device which assigns a virtual serial port
    You need to consider what that means.
    If you have an older application that requires the address of the port, you may wish to consider some alternative. Those kind of programs are very dated, they were common back in the days of MS-DOS.
    What is the model of the device?
    Also, why do you need to move it to other computers?  more information about what you are doing, other members here can help y0ou.
    As for me, I am stuck. I never did well with serial ports. And I hated it when the configuration would change from on PC to the next.  Drove me nuts.

    geoffl

      Topic Starter


      Intermediate

      • Experience: Beginner
      • OS: Unknown
      Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
      « Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 06:20:32 AM »
      Hi,
      The device is a cash drawer trigger. We need 4 cash registers therefore 4 triggers. Under NTVDM I use a program called porttalk which, against windows rules to access hardware, opens the com port so I can send a pulse to it. Porttalk needs to know the address of the port to open. My batch file says
      allowio   echo "UUUU: com1: /f378
      Allowio is the executable program, f378 the port address. The address of com1 is F378 but how do I find the address of COM14?
      Regards

      Geoffl


      Geek-9pm


        Mastermind
      • Geek After Dark
      • Thanked: 1026
        • Gekk9pm bnlog
      • Certifications: List
      • Computer: Specs
      • Experience: Expert
      • OS: Windows 10
      Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
      « Reply #3 on: June 28, 2013, 11:22:21 AM »
      Sorry, never used a USB serial adapter. But found some links
      Does it work with com1 and com2?
      If its was physical, and not virtual, the following would help:
      How to read Parallel/Serial Port address from BIOS
      Using a virtual port:
      The serial port - software setup

      Best I can do for you.

      geoffl

        Topic Starter


        Intermediate

        • Experience: Beginner
        • OS: Unknown
        Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
        « Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 11:24:56 PM »
        Hi,
        Thanks for your help. It works with com1 if I plug it in and the computer assigns it to com1. It is assigned the next available port and I know that the address of com1 if 3f8. For some reason the computer I am on now it is assigned com14 and I need to know the address of com14.
        Regards

        Geoffl

        Geek-9pm


          Mastermind
        • Geek After Dark
        • Thanked: 1026
          • Gekk9pm bnlog
        • Certifications: List
        • Computer: Specs
        • Experience: Expert
        • OS: Windows 10
        Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
        « Reply #5 on: June 29, 2013, 01:12:28 AM »
        Now I am shooting in the dark.
        The COM com ports 1 to 4 are normally  in the literature for the early IBM PC.
        0x03f8
        0x02f8
        0x03e8
        0x02e8
        Which is not much help at all.

         Higher number poets were defined later as part of the PnP standard. (Plug and Play) These ports are virtual ports and require drivers.
        It would appear that the machine that has it as com 14 already has some device that is using the other com ports.

        Bluetooth devices also define COM port numbers.  Maybe that leads to a clue about how Windows defines COM port numbers above COM4.
        Sorry, I can not find a direct answer to your question.
        I believe the higher number ports are virtual ports and are not hardware defined.

        This was on another forum:
        Quote
        Is it somehow possible to extend the number of com ports when running in Windows XP mode and if yes how
        can you configure this. The problem is that a number of old XP applications need in total 4 ports to function correctly and  I cannot find how to extend the number of ports. ...
        He never got a real answer.
        Sorry. I am stuck.

        geoffl

          Topic Starter


          Intermediate

          • Experience: Beginner
          • OS: Unknown
          Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
          « Reply #6 on: June 29, 2013, 01:20:31 AM »
          Thank you so much for your efforts
          Geoffl

          Geek-9pm


            Mastermind
          • Geek After Dark
          • Thanked: 1026
            • Gekk9pm bnlog
          • Certifications: List
          • Computer: Specs
          • Experience: Expert
          • OS: Windows 10
          Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
          « Reply #7 on: June 29, 2013, 02:01:04 PM »
          geoffl, you say you are a beginner.

          Years ago I had some experience is machine automation. That normally involve3s serial ports and devices that run at low data rates.

          At that time there was no need to tie devices together in a network. Each workstation produced printed output tart was used for record keeping.

          It is hard for me to grasp how your system is supposed to work and why.
          Is this based on an resisting legacy system and you want to update to new hardware and Operating System?
          Was the whole thing already up and running using legacy hardware and software and somebody, maybe you, decided the whole thing needs to upgrade?
          Pardon me for sounder critical, but was a proof of co concept made at one time?
          Proof of concept t is a prototype used in an experiment to show all the key components can function together.





          geoffl

            Topic Starter


            Intermediate

            • Experience: Beginner
            • OS: Unknown
            Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
            « Reply #8 on: June 29, 2013, 11:33:07 PM »
            Hi,
            I am around your age I think. The software I use to write my programs was written in 1980 for CPM. A dos version was written in 1986 then the writers disappeared. I have had a lot of fun over the years getting this working with all sorts of things, including network printers. This runs our business. I have hundreds of programs and am too old to learn another language. I know one day it won't work anymore. The reason I want this device to work is that I want to start using laptops with only USB for cash registers. This device simply opens the cash drawer. I have 2 computers it works fine on because the com port assigned is 1 or 3 and I know the address ( the program porttalk needs the address of the port).
            Geoffl

            Geek-9pm


              Mastermind
            • Geek After Dark
            • Thanked: 1026
              • Gekk9pm bnlog
            • Certifications: List
            • Computer: Specs
            • Experience: Expert
            • OS: Windows 10
            Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
            « Reply #9 on: June 30, 2013, 12:49:06 AM »
            OK. We have a lot in common. I was a assembly language programmer using an Intel development system for the 8080. I also did some CP/M programming just because the CP/M based computers were a fraction of the cost of an Intel ISIS II workstation. The CP/M type computers were used in proses control  and material testing. What we put out on the floor of the manufacturing area were actual ROM based microcomputers with a in-house integer BASIC interpreter we did. The I/.O system was designed by the engineers and we had to use assembly language to read and write the ports of the 8080 CPU. Very primitive by today's standards.

            A modern Intel based PV operating system s are based on the 386 architecture not the 8086 used in early IBM PCs. Starting with window 95, you could get to I.O ports as virtual devices, but I have no deference on that at hand.
            The early MS-DOS PCs you used were programmed within the limitations of the 8086 architecture.  Which simply meant that if you tried to read from port  3F8 (hex) you had to have a real piecse of hardware wired to decode that literal address. The I/O cards would have little DIP switches that let your re-wire the address decoder to respond to another address. That would let you add more serial ports to the system.
            With the  i386 you have many extensions to the old 8086 code. Notably, the ability to run in a virtual mode instead of the real mode. So instead of setting a DIP switch, just tell the software to make exceptions to some I/O address.  Any reference to 3F8 would map to 2F8 instead.  (OK, that is over simplified, but has the idea.)
            Your USB device should map to the four standard ports, COM ports 1,2,3 and 4. A higher address means some other program has already taken over the lower ports. Or there are lower physical ports in the system.



            The above is a port serial port PCI card. It can literally be four ports. You can, if needed, disable some ports.

            But a USB port is a different thing. It has to emulate a physical serial port using a driver written in i386 code to let older programs use the addresses scheme of a physical port.

            I still have trouble visualizing  how you have things connected. You have only one USB adapter, - Right? It should map itself to the first four COM  ports. Any real COM ports should be disabled in BIOS.

            Time for bed. More tomorrow.




            Geek-9pm


              Mastermind
            • Geek After Dark
            • Thanked: 1026
              • Gekk9pm bnlog
            • Certifications: List
            • Computer: Specs
            • Experience: Expert
            • OS: Windows 10
            Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
            « Reply #10 on: June 30, 2013, 09:28:24 AM »
            After sleeping on this, I finally realized what I forgot to ask.
            What ever tells you it is com port 14 should also tell you what that means. The address is a property of the device. It may be called 'sorceress.'

            Geek-9pm


              Mastermind
            • Geek After Dark
            • Thanked: 1026
              • Gekk9pm bnlog
            • Certifications: List
            • Computer: Specs
            • Experience: Expert
            • OS: Windows 10
            Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
            « Reply #11 on: June 30, 2013, 11:53:43 AM »
            This topic  deserves more attention. So I started a more general post based on an article I found. Here on On CH my new post is:
            http://www.computerhope.com/forum/index.php/topic,138520.0.html
            Windows Serial Port Compatibility With eMonitor Software.

            Note to moderator:My new post is to invite others to join a broad coverage of an important Windows hardware /software concept. Namely, Virtual Com Ports in Windows 7.
            « Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 12:04:35 PM by Geek-9pm »

            geoffl

              Topic Starter


              Intermediate

              • Experience: Beginner
              • OS: Unknown
              Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
              « Reply #12 on: July 01, 2013, 04:52:55 AM »
              Hi,
              You certainly have been involved in some interesting things in your life time!! I wish I could find someone like you to decompile and rewrite this data base I work with ( it is called FMS80) so it was windows friendly.
              I have only one adaptor. This is it here    http://www.umd.com.au/itd/products/m317.html. I want to buy more and connect them to different computers.
              It is device manager that tells me which port it is. Some things I have seen there, under properties, have a resources tab which tells you the address but this does not. Thank you so much for your help.
              Kind regards

              Geoffl

              Geek-9pm


                Mastermind
              • Geek After Dark
              • Thanked: 1026
                • Gekk9pm bnlog
              • Certifications: List
              • Computer: Specs
              • Experience: Expert
              • OS: Windows 10
              Re: Device which assigns a virtual serial port
              « Reply #13 on: July 01, 2013, 05:37:30 AM »
              The kind of device you have is a member of a the new USB Serial adapters used for PDA and GPS gadgets. One and dual ports versions are very common. Prices vary from as low as $2 up to $30. With the exceptions of the four port device is very hard to find and very expensive.
              So far I have not found a clear, concise explanation of how they work.
              Here is a blurb from eHow. I put it here to help others know what we are talking about.
              Quote
              How to Find a Serial Port Address
              By Jedadiah Casey, eHow Contributor
              Serial ports were once used for most external devices on computers. Eventually, the older 9-pin and 25-pin serial ports were replaced by much faster USB connections. Traditional COM ports can run at a maximum of 115 Kbps, whereas the original USB 1.0 specification ran at 11 Mbps. There are still situations today where serial ports are used, especially with Point of Sale systems. In these situations it is useful to know which addresses the serial ports are using. ...
              ...
              Read more: http://www.ehow.com/how_7319561_serial-port-address.html#ixzz2Xn9sjiRJ
              He goes on to mention  the resource properties, which you say does not work for you. Mystery. I wish I had experience in this. My guess is the drive they gave you is not fully compliant to MS standards for device drivers. I am guessing. Having another model from another company might help. Or not.

              Somewhere I saw a list of all defined ports on the IBM PC.
              I sent you a PM
              EDIT:  Found this for a COM14 Sony device:
              List of USB Serial adapter drivers.
              « Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 06:03:44 AM by Geek-9pm »