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Author Topic: going back to Windows 7  (Read 32100 times)

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BC_Programmer


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Re: going back to Windows 7
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2013, 06:07:45 PM »
First they release a new version of Windows and then they have to make all those changes because not too many people like it the way it is.
"All those changes"

I count two. They put an image in the corner for accessing the start screen, and they added an option to go to the desktop on boot. (In Taskbar Properties).
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

Computer_Commando



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Re: going back to Windows 7
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2013, 06:40:53 PM »
"All those changes"

I count two. They put an image in the corner for accessing the start screen, and they added an option to go to the desktop on boot. (In Taskbar Properties).
Steve Ballmer indicates more than 2.
On stage today, Steve Ballmer said that in coffee terms, Microsoft was "refining the blend" between the desktop and Modern UI interfaces and a lot of Windows 8.1 enhancements have been designed to make the change between the two interfaces far less jarring.

BC_Programmer


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Re: going back to Windows 7
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2013, 07:00:49 PM »
Steve Ballmer indicates more than 2.
On stage today, Steve Ballmer said that in coffee terms, Microsoft was "refining the blend" between the desktop and Modern UI interfaces and a lot of Windows 8.1 enhancements have been designed to make the change between the two interfaces far less jarring.

And yet, nothing specific. Very few of those I can find bulleted out Are what people have been complaining about. The two things people have been complaining about are:

1. Lack of the Start Menu. This hasn't been "fixed". The Start Menu was replaced with the Start Screen and it's here to stay. Others have said they miss the Start Button (Which is weird because most of those same people actually miss the start Menu, not the Button). So they attached an image to what used to be the hot-tracked start screen button.

2. It's different.

Can't really address this. The number of people complaining for the sake of complaining, suggesting the use of aftermarket tools to "fix" perceived deficiencies, etc. is astronomical. Examples are easy to come by. "Fixes" for Windows 95 that set progman.exe as the shell to "fix" Windows 95; "Fixes" for Windows XP to remove the "stupid" default Start Menu and replace it with the "more sane" one from windows 9x; "Fixes" for Windows Vista/7's menu to make it look like XP's Stupid default, etc. Given the trend and lack of any objective information, I'm forced to conclude, personally, that the noise being made about win8 is no different.

In fact, 8.1 could be considered the same as 6.1; Windows 7 made token changes and didn't even address any of the alleged 'problems' of Windows Vista; in the same way, Windows 8.1 is much the same. Token UI changes that don't actually address many of the issues but serve to disarm detractors. People didn't complain that Windows 8 didn't have heavy integration with Skydrive. People didn't complain that Windows 8 didn't include IE11. The only two that tangentially address complaints about Windows 8 are the option to Start win8 at the desktop, and giving the already present start screen button a logo. (arguably, aggregate search makes search more semantically compatible with Previous releases too).

Additionally, the reason these features were added is the same reason that Program Manager stuck around on installation media for so long. Some people don't like it.  But whether people like something at first glance is wholly unrelated to whether they will like it when they actually use it, and it's also unrelated to whether that new something is actually better.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

SuperTweaker

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Re: going back to Windows 7
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2013, 06:41:37 AM »
I highly recommend the Start Menu 8 from iobit.com .  Just be sure to uncheck any of their demo software during the installation.  Their W8 Start Menu will allow you to bypass the Metro screen all together.

Why on earth M$ would remove their Hallmark "Start Button" is simply beyond reason! Fortunately there are developers who have created a Start Menu app - there are about 10 on the Internet now and I have tried several of them.  Iobit's is my favorite, give it a try.

My prediction on W8 is pretty much in par with Windows Millennium which got brushed under the rug soon after it was released before XP. Vista had it's huge problems in the beginning but once SP1 was released it became a better operating system.

In both Vista and 7 the UAC can be completely deactivated.  The UAC is a farce IMHO and simply ads annoyance to both systems.  Just go to the Control Panel/User Accounts and disable the UAC. You'll enjoy your computer much more without it.

BC_Programmer


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Re: going back to Windows 7
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2013, 07:22:59 AM »
I highly recommend the Start Menu 8 from iobit.com
Yes. Lot's of aftermarket software is cashing in on people's insecurities. Sort of like Norton's Desktop cashed in on people when the Start menu was added. Why iobit's product and not Classic Shell or StarDock's Start8, though?

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Their W8 Start Menu will allow you to bypass the Metro screen all together.

Booting to the Standard desktop is available in Windows 8.1.

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Why on earth M$ would remove their Hallmark "Start Button" is simply beyond reason!
The Start button was never removed. In 8.0 it had no image and acted more as a hot corner to get to the start screen. 8.1 adds the button back, it still goes to the start screen. Most people complaining about the loss of the start menu are either weird people that never actually realized that the Search feature was a million times better and faster than wandering through a billion Start menu folders to find an application. (I press windows key, type 2012, and press enter to start Visual Studio 2012 on both Win7 and Win8.

There is no arguing that this is faster than going Start->All Programs->Navigating down to Microsoft Visual Studio 2012, and choosing Visual Studio 2012. Same for applications like photoshop. Pretty much anything on the start menu is accessible via a quick search, so the only thing lost is when you don't know what you are starting.

In which case, why the heck are you in the start menu?

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My prediction on W8 is pretty much in par with Windows Millennium which got brushed under the rug soon after it was released before XP.
ME was an interim release on par with Visual Basic 3.0 in terms of releasing what they had before a major rearchitecture. In this case it was the last release of the 9x line.

I've yet to find any evidence that ME had any particularly major issues, certainly none it didn't share with Windows 98SE. Most problems with Windows ME seem to revolve around the design that avoids MS-DOS mode, or, most likely, problems people had with OEM systems that can preinstalled with Windows ME.

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Vista had it's huge problems in the beginning but once SP1 was released it became a better operating system.
Neat. What changes in SP1 made it better, specifically? What portions of SP1 are single-handed responsible for changing Vista from Bad to good? Just curious.

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In both Vista and 7 the UAC can be completely deactivated.  The UAC is a farce IMHO and simply ads annoyance to both systems.  Just go to the Control Panel/User Accounts and disable the UAC. You'll enjoy your computer much more without it.

And you have just expressed how ignorant you are.

UAC is downright critical and addresses the biggest issues that existed in Windows up to that time, which was the fact that the default setup not only ran under administrator permissions, but it also made administering a Limited User Account setup difficult.

Trojans are simply the 99.9% of how Windows systems get infected.

On XP, every user is an administrator. the important thing is that every application they run has full administrative privileges. So if that super happy screensaver is a trojan, that malicious code can do whatever it wants to the system. Direct disk access to write to the boot sector, changing system files. It can even install a service to run under the Local System Account, giving it even more free range over the systems internals.

Now, I don't know about anybody else, but I don't see any good reason to give those programs you run everyday full administrative privileges. Pre-Vista, Windows support for LUA existed, but was really only something that was worth the effort on Domains; it required a lot of fiddling about with knobs, dials, GPEdit, etcetera. for XP you could, for example, create non-admin accounts, but if you needed to do any admin tasks you had to log off and log back on, making it a gigantic pain.

UAC tries to address this. When UAC is enabled, when you log on, your account's Security Identifier is stripped of all the administrative privileges. Any Application requiring those privileges will give you a UAC prompt (if they are written properly) or fail altogether (if they aren't) in the latter case you would need to "Run as Administrator" but you still get the UAC prompt. The point is to make sure that all the applications that run with administrative privileges have your permission to do so.

This also mitigates the problem for even those applications you might otherwise trust; in XP since everything ran with admin privileges, a security problem in Firefox, or Chrome, or Word, or Excel, or Internet Explorer, could take over your machine. A simple oversight in a javascript parser could be all that a malicious programmer needs to install a Remote Access Trojan on your system, without you even knowing it. UAC prevents this because the browser isn't running with admin privileges, so the damage can only extend to what your stripped user token is capable of, which for any sort of malicious software is usually pretty useless.

Vista's only problem with UAC is that people got so used to the prompt that they unconditionally said yes anyway, making the function useless. Win7 improved it and added more options so that more of the prompts were "important" decisions, mostly for when  you ran a executable that required admin permissions for whatever reason. Then you could decide whether you were willing to hand over those abilities. UAC is sort of like a gynecologists assistant that makes sure the gynecologist (the software program) doesn't do anything inappropriate without your permission.

The fact that there was so much hate against UAC is proof that the vast majority of the userbase simply doesn't understand the difference. They don't see it as additional security, they see it as additional inconvenience, and they don't understand that to get the latter you are going to have to put up with some of the former, simply by virtue of the way it works.


I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

SuperTweaker

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Re: going back to Windows 7
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2013, 05:24:01 PM »
False security?  rofllmao!   One could say that about someone who needs to type a text-storm in a forum. LOL

I won't exchange juicy zingers with you nor flame your topics. I can see that your wheels have been spinning in the dirt for a long, long time.

Now.  Go develop something useful we can all download to enhance our computer experience. (binary boy).   ::)


BC_Programmer


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Re: going back to Windows 7
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2013, 05:33:37 PM »
False security?  rofllmao!   One could say that about someone who needs to type a text-storm in a forum. LOL

I won't exchange juicy zingers with you nor flame your topics. I can see that your wheels have been spinning in the dirt for a long, long time.

Now.  Go develop something useful we can all download to enhance our computer experience. (binary boy).   ::)

Actually much of that post was copy-pasted from a post I made on another forum on the topic of UAC. Much easier to re-use it rather than write something that would probably end up being pretty much the same.

Your ad hominem arguments by their nature, refute nothing that I said. They do, however, say a lot about you. I'll let other posters and viewers be the judge of exactly what, but I would suppose it is not particularly flattering.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

SuperTweaker

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Re: going back to Windows 7
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2013, 08:03:57 PM »
Readers realize,

1. You are a troll in this forum.
2. You are narcissistic
3. You are boorish
4. You MUST have the last word in any debate and in doing so you are histrionic and verbose.

Yawn

cdfrt54



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    Re: going back to Windows 7
    « Reply #23 on: August 04, 2013, 11:25:08 PM »
    I am told that I must do the following in order to get a windows 7 64 OS on this computer from Dell
    it is not possible to downgrade from Windows 8 to Windows 7, you would need to upgrade to Windows 8 pro then you will be able to downgrade to Windows 7 pro.

    at present it is a Dell inspiron 660 with 3.0 MHz core 4 processor
    running win 8 which drives me crazy .
    I have many reason's for no liking win 8,

    Why would you downgrade to W7? W8 is much faster in booting time, it is more beautiful too.