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Windows98

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I always wanted to post here :)
« on: July 09, 2014, 01:02:57 PM »
After seeing everyone build there own computers, I always wanted to build one from scratch. However I have not kept up with technology and not really an enthusiast and just forgot about it.  I still keep using my working but consider ancient computer. With the end of Windows XP.. I am still using it as I just mostly surf the web, youtube video and a bunch of other small stuff.

LONG STORY:  :P

My brother asked if it was a good idea to get a pre built machine or start from scratch.. He plays games with his friends online all the time. It is mostly him that does gaming and somehow our good ol Pentium 4 3.0ghz with 3 GB of DDR2 memory would be playable with most games on very low settings and sometimes pauses in between. We have Nvidia GT 610 512 MB DDR3 on PCI slot as a video card. Since he wanted a gaming computer he asked me for some guidance since I like to tinker around the inside of computer cases...

I was horrified, I swap parts and only add a few things because everything else already worked... So I asked him what he wanted and what his budget was.. He wanted a "gaming" computer that is good for about 6-8 years. He says he prefer if he could just throw in a new video card if needed, instead of starting over everything from scratch again every few years.. The budget was up to $1,000 with shipping.

Why $1,000? This is what we spent on our Intel Celeron 500 Mhz 64 MB SDRAM with 20 GB hard drive back in the early 90's. Since prices of stuff have gone down and technology has really improve he was hoping for something really nice around that price range.


So I looked online and since this is a horrible time for desktops as everyone is using tablets and laptops.. Every specification I saw was quite disappointing especially around that price range.. The prebuilt ones were overpriced..and not that impressive for specifications around that price range..I know they have to pay people to assemble it, but either it had a good CPU and bad GPU or the otherway around. The computer cases were... to extreme for any of our liking..

Finally I said screw it and took the weekend to read up on stuff and tried to plan out something within that price range that would last and would work together.  This is what I end up pulling the trigger on.

CPU: i7-4790k @4.0Ghz - Why K instead of a standard version? I don't plan to overclock or even touch anything related to overclock. I just wanted the faster clock speed.  :-\

Graphics: Geforce GTX 660 - Non Ti version.  Mid range card should be good enough for everything since he doesn't play in 1080p.

Motherboard: MSI Z97-G55 - This was the most annoying and hardest one to choose because I had a PCI x1 b/g/n wireless card I need to install so I needed a useable pci x1 slot.. Of course from what I read and look at video cards today... they are HUGE! I thought the last PCI x1 slot on the bottom would be useable when I put the card in on the last pci x1 slot.. of course putting in the video card it covered the bottom 2 pci x1 card...   >:(  I would have gotten a better motherboard if I knew how big modern video cards are..  and what slots will be available Instead I use the pci x1 on top of the video card instead..

Power: Coolmaster GXII 750w - Was price on the lower end, Although I don't really expect this to actually provide 750w when needed I hope it was at least useable if it got to 400-500w.

Hard drive: 1.0 TB Western Digital Black - Might have gone blue to save a few bucks

RAM: 2 x 4 GB DDR3 - I would post brand, but RAM is RAM? I tried to avoid the fancy gaming ones and pick out a standard one that will work out.

Case: NZXT H230 Black - Another one that just drove me insane... It had to have good air flow and good price. Also he did not want a case with tons of LED lights because it will sit on the floor and if he left it on at night he didn't want it to be brighter then the lamp post.

Other: DVD Drive - Needed a SATA CD Drive because no motherboards support any IDE or PATA slots anymore.. Had to install Windows 7 somehow...

He is sticking with his large CRT monitor PS/2 keyboard and USB mouse.

Total for this build: ~$945.00 before rebates ~$915.00 after rebates. So I did meet his price goal.



So everything is assembled and put together... It took me 5  1/2 hours.... tons of sweaty palms trying to figure everything out, because I was so worried about braking something or shorting something out.... or plugging in something wrong... or something might not fit correctly... or if it doesn't turn on figuring out what went wrong..

It is up and running now however I am having trouble with the Intel OEM CPU cooler that I was hoping to figure out.  The CPU idles at 38-40 c however once you put a load on it, like cinebench it shoots up to 97-98c... some what fast and not gradual. I can hear the fan speed increasing a bit as it is trying to keep it cool. *sigh* Hoping I won't have to go out and get another CPU cooler.. Room temp is currently around 75 f

Other then that.. Yay, I built my first computer from scratch... without getting anything already pre assembled and upgrading components. Although this did sorta kill the mood for me to try and build another one in the future.. who knows what else might change in terms of technology.. I mean 5 hours of trying to figure it out and to put everything together carefully..

So now he has an i7 "gaming" computer and I am still using my Pentium 4 3.0Ghz computer 

P.S. We are using a 3.0Mbps DSL connection still since 2003-2004 ;D
We do have Fios and Cable where we live.. but seeing everyone complain about prices we are stuck with the $29.99 DSL price for life from Verizon that was offered around that time.

DaveLembke



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Re: I always wanted to post here :)
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2014, 03:50:14 PM »
Quote
It is up and running now however I am having trouble with the Intel OEM CPU cooler that I was hoping to figure out.  The CPU idles at 38-40 c however once you put a load on it, like cinebench it shoots up to 97-98c... some what fast and not gradual. I can hear the fan speed increasing a bit as it is trying to keep it cool. *sigh* Hoping I won't have to go out and get another CPU cooler.. Room temp is currently around 75 f


This is way too hot way too fast!!!

Did you apply thermal compound between the heatsink and the CPU?

Did this heatsink come bundled with the CPU or did you buy it on your own to add to this Core i7?



I have a system that I overclocked 10% from 2.3Ghz to 2.53Ghz with stock cast aluminum Foxconn heatsink, and with a room temp of 75F it shoots up from 41C to 52C rapidly then slowly creeps up to 54C and then bounces between 55 and 56C and occasionally holds at 56C but never going over with a room temp of 75F. My CPU's max temp rating is 83C, although most people state to not go over 60C with the CPU I have, so me running my CPU at 56C is pretty close to the 60C max that everyone other than AMD suggests. As room temp increases, so does the CPU temp! Prior to my 10% overclock it would idle around 35C and max out around 49C when gaming or processing large FRAP gaming event video conversions to smaller AVI files with Virtual Dub.

My wifes computer running Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4Ghz with stock heatsink also would shoot up into the 50C-60C range quickly, and when her fan died. I replaced her heatsink with a newer heatsink with heat pipes and her system now does not shoot up in temperature quickly but more gradually as well as it maxes out now at 50C tops and runs usually around 35C, so its running much cooler.

I probably should replace my heatsink with a better heatsink, but for the fact that its not going into the dangerous temp range, I am going to continue to use the cheap cast aluminum heatsink until its fan dies and then upgrade and spend money only when I have to.

You built a good system, although I wouldn't have gone with MSI motherboard brand, and would have gone with Gigabyte, ASUS, or Biostar instead. Hoping you dont have any problems with that MSI as they have a high failure rate overall just based on that brand being known for causing problems. Maybe you got lucky and got an ok board.

Once you get your temp to max out at no greater than 60C you will be all set, but I wouldnt run that Core i7 into the 90C range as for its going to cause problems down the line probably sooner than later. One of the problems being that if the CPU is 98C, its roasting hot in the CPU socket and the motherboard being close to the CPU will cause the motherboard to get a hot spot directly under the CPU, and this heat can travel to other components following thermal conductance of the copper traces and the heat then runs of the legs into temperature sensitive components such as Capacitors which lead to motherboard failure. Also I have seen where in some situations CPU's that run too hot damage the CPU socket by causing the plastic to warp under the heat and downward pressure from the latched/locked down heatsink.

*** If you have adequate thermal paste bonding the CPU top to the heatsink and its running hot like this, definately invest into a better heatsink that is correctly rated for Core i7 CPU's in the 4Ghz range. You would want a heatsink such as the following at this article:
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2185143/cpu-cooler-4790k.html

Windows98

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Re: I always wanted to post here :)
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2014, 08:10:35 PM »
This was the OEM intel cpu fan that came in the cpu box.. To be honest I was skeptical and concerned about it because I am use to big thick heavy air cooled fans.. (Pentium 4) LGA  775.  This one was very light and the blades weren't exactly protected... and it is surrounded by tons of plastic... There was thermal paste already on the bottom where the base meets the CPU.

I did a double check later today and found that one side was loose. I still can't figure these new connectors out. You are suppose to push in the plastic legs and then twist to lock or is twisting suppose to release the legs?

After I pushed in all 4 sides although tight the legs still felt shaky to me as I am not sure if they are properly locked in. The loose side when I pushed down on it I heard a click so I pushed the other sides down.. Or at least spread my fingers to try and push all 4 down at once and there was another click somewhere. After that I did another test and the results were much better. I could live with the temps I seen but since it is not my PC I would have to ask him to monitor it to see if it gets to high.

Loose heatsink: 38-40c idle  97-98c underload
Heatsink snapped in 39-41c idle  77-79c underload

I did read the horror stories of MSI, but I heard even more worst stories about Biostar? I hope this board is problem free although I do notice some bugs already on it.
1. When you first turn the computer on you don't get the logo screen instead you get a few seconds of some letter number combination on the bottom screen that shuffles around a bit before the logo comes up.

2. After every benchmark or stress test the core temp gadget shows that once the test is over for some odd reason the motherboard says the CPU bounces to 100% and the temps rise to 99-100c for less then a second. Those aren't the real temps but thats what happens when the benchmark is over.

So far he has been using it to game and I did ask him to check the temps briefly and according to the core temp gadget he said 76-77c so I guess it is ok. I should become concern when it reaches 80 or higher.. my laptop had a short life because even though it wasn't a gaming PC I had temp problems getting 80-90c and 3 years later the laptop died. It was a Toshiba A665-S6065


When I first open the box of the GTX 660 I said holy crap the size looks like 2 original Game boy stack on top of each other. The requirements I set was 2 PCI 3.0 slots, a useable PCI x1 slot for the wireless, and a PCI slot for whatever reason some legacy stuff needs to use it. I didn't really care about how many USB 3.0 or 2.0 there were as the case is on the floor so we will be relying on the front ports only.

At least now I know what to expect from modern video cards. I am use to one card, one slot and suppose to be nice so other cards can fit in the other slots next to it.. but nope this took 2 slots and the fan cooler took over another slot...

In your opinion from best to worst what brands would you recommend for motherboards? Everyone has different opinions but this is my first build so I only have experience with what I am able to get my hands on.. which is mostly old stuff, this is actually the first new stuff I had to work with and I took my sweet time putting it together.. well actually most of it was reading the manual and booklets and putting notes on them before putting the parts in. Also a few youtube video trying to figure out what some connectors were called  ;D

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Re: I always wanted to post here :)
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2014, 04:54:23 AM »
As you have said, MSI isn't the best brand so I would tend to avoid them.  That said they aren't as bad as they used to be and I'd imagine your board to long outlive its useful life - I'd still just tend to go for a board from Gigabyte or ASUS to be on the safe side.  I also wouldn't have gone for that PSU or really any Coolermaster for that matter - It should be fine and is certainly better than a cheapo unbranded unit (i.e. actually safe to use) but you could have easily got a much better ~550w unit from the likes of XFX/Seasonic for the same price or even cheaper.

As far as the CPU cooler goes - You simply push the legs down to lock them in place, twisting then releases them.  Once you have taken it off you need to twist the legs back to where they were in order to be able to click them down again.  When pressing them down do it in a "cross" type pattern to even out the pressure.  The stock coolers are small compared to the old ones but that is fine, modern Intel chips are so efficient nowadays they do not need more at stock speeds.  This diagram shows the positions of the legs:

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Re: I always wanted to post here :)
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2014, 06:13:32 PM »
my i7 4770K is using the stock cooler and has no temperature issues, just for comparison.

As for the legs, basically the white plastic is "in half". The idea is you squeeze it through the hole in the motherboard and then the black plastic pin is pushed down to force the notched end apart and hold it in place. Think of it like a wedge I suppose.
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