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Author Topic: Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?  (Read 10330 times)

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honvetops

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    Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?
    « on: June 11, 2007, 04:40:18 AM »

    Sun Microsystems's CEO Jonathan Schwartz said Apple's upcoming Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard would rely on a file system that his engineers created: ZFS.

     Apple Inc. collects secrets like a pack rat collects shiny things. It's part of the company's culture. So when someone breaks the code of silence, it sets virtual seismographic needles scratching. That happened this week, when Sun Microsystems Inc.'s CEO Jonathan Schwartz said Apple's upcoming Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, would rely on a file system that engineers at his company have spent years creating: ZFS.

    Just what is ZFS, and why did it send Mac enthusiasts spinning? Read on. ...

    What does ZFS stand for? At one time, it was an acronym for Zettabyte File System, but Sun now prefers that the name stand on its own. "Zetta," by the way, is one of the standard SI prefixes -- as are the much more familiar "kilo," "mega" and "giga" -- and represents 1021, or 100,000,000,000,000,000,000. According to Sun, "The largest SI prefix we liked was 'zetta.'" Sun was obviously seeking to evoke a really big number to remind everyone of the file system's data (and number of files) capacity. Sort of like Super Size Me -- the movie -- but bigger. Way bigger.

    Got it. Now what is it? ZFS is a 128-bit file system that Sun announced in 2004 but didn't integrate with its Solaris operating system until 2006. Among ZFS' selling points is huge capacity, storage pooling, fast data snapshots and copy-on-write. As a 128-bit file system, it can store 18 billion billion times more data than current 64-bit systems, such as NTFS, which is Microsoft Corp.'s file system for Windows. According to calculations on Wikipedia, it would take about 9,000 years to max out ZFS' file limit if 1,000 files were created every second. Pooling eliminates partitions, and much of the hassle with storage, such as figuring which "volume" to stick files on, or how to manage a new external drive.

    "You don't have to worry about the details of what's going on with your disks, your storage or your file systems," Jeff Bonwick, chief architect of ZFS, said when Sun rolled out the file system in 2004. "You add disks to your storage pool, file systems consume space automatically as they need it, and administrators don't have to get involved." And copy-on-write, which copies modified data to a new block rather than overwriting existing data, is pertinent here because it's one of the most-common methods used to take quick "snapshots" of a disk (or in the case of ZFS, the storage pool) as point-in-time backups.

    ( this is about* 1/3 the size of  the complete article )

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    Carbon Dudeoxide

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    Re: Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?
    « Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 04:47:52 AM »
    I would kill to have a yottabyte drive but with mac installed on it, no thanks.
    Although I guess I could just reformat it and install Windows :P

    Quote
    it would take about 9,000 years to max out ZFS' file limit if 1,000 files were created every second
    How big a file?

    contrex

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    Re: Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?
    « Reply #2 on: June 11, 2007, 05:37:33 AM »
    I would kill to have a yottabyte drive but with mac installed on it, no thanks.
    Although I guess I could just reformat it and install Windows :P

    Quote
    it would take about 9,000 years to max out ZFS' file limit if 1,000 files were created every second
    How big a file?

    Without that information, the quote is completely meaningless, as you have noticed. If each file was one thousandth the max size, the filesystem would get maxed out in 1 second.

    But, let's fire up Windows Calculator!

    100000000000000000000 bytes is the limit, (10^21)
    283824000000 is the number of seconds in 9000 years

    352331022 is the one divided by the other,

    divide by 1000

    352,331.022 is the rough file size, around 350 Kb

    Still completely meaningless.

    Although it's suspiciously close to the old 5.25 inch floppy disk capacity of 360 kb that was common when Apples first appeared in the 1980s. Maybe that's the bit that got left out? A variant of hard drives storing the equivalent of a pile of floppy disks N miles high or whatever.
    « Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 01:34:11 PM by contrex »

    honvetops

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      Re: Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?
      « Reply #3 on: June 11, 2007, 01:11:21 PM »
      Well, since Rob P*(EGGHEAD)  isn't around for the most part anymore...I'd  have to say that you "contrex" are pretty much next inline for one of the forum freakin genius roles here !!  your posts are very straightforward and great info* > just don't say nothing to  G-man !!!  :-X

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      contrex

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      Re: Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?
      « Reply #4 on: June 11, 2007, 01:15:34 PM »
      Thanks, honvetops, that's a very nice thing you said, and it makes me feel very humble, because I remember I have been less than polite to you on at least one occasion.

      honvetops

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        Re: Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?
        « Reply #5 on: June 11, 2007, 02:41:49 PM »
        ahhh  *censored*.  I take grief at work for a living (dispatcher) member Louie taxie !!

        I can be a dck~  I deserve most of it  *   8)

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        Zylstra

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        Re: Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?
        « Reply #6 on: June 11, 2007, 08:53:37 PM »
        Wouldent you have to have a larger hard drive capacity so that you could actually unleash the power if the ZFS system?

        I know that if you had a 120GB HDD, it would only be able to store 120GB, but, the ZFS would only allow more space to be taken >if< you had a larger drive.

        Meaning the current NTFS system has a certain limit as to how much space can be allocated within.

        Only plus I see here is:
        ZFS would store and retrieve information slightly faster.

        (someone verify this, I have no idea what I am talking about)

        Is the Mac still all UFS?


        michaewlewis



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        Re: Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?
        « Reply #7 on: June 20, 2007, 02:46:49 PM »
        Wouldent you have to have a larger hard drive capacity so that you could actually unleash the power if the ZFS system?

        I know that if you had a 120GB HDD, it would only be able to store 120GB, but, the ZFS would only allow more space to be taken >if< you had a larger drive.

        Meaning the current NTFS system has a certain limit as to how much space can be allocated within.

        Only plus I see here is:
        ZFS would store and retrieve information slightly faster.

        (someone verify this, I have no idea what I am talking about)

        Is the Mac still all UFS?
        With the hdd pooling option, you could put a thousand 500gb hard drives together to create one massive volume.

        If it would take 9,000 years to max out zfs's capabilities, I hope hard drives get a lot faster! 1,000,000 rpm.... ;)

        Zylstra

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        Re: Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?
        « Reply #8 on: June 20, 2007, 07:13:45 PM »
        So overall, it really cant do more than the NTFS file system if you are a normal user... (and dont plan on hosting a large shared server)

        michaewlewis



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        Re: Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?
        « Reply #9 on: June 21, 2007, 08:08:09 AM »
        Ya, I guess the only uses would be for computers like this one that is used for scientific studies and simulations. Maybe very large databases, too.

        Zylstra

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        Re: Is the ZFS File System Apple's Secret Weapon?
        « Reply #10 on: June 21, 2007, 12:57:58 PM »
        Ya, I guess the only uses would be for computers like this one that is used for scientific studies and simulations. Maybe very large databases, too.
        Ah, but they will be running Linux

        Apple would freak at that level of RAM