Do I have a hard drive or RAM problem? Or maybe something else entirely?

[AFK]

My Computer Specifications:

AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3800+ (less than a year old)
2.41 GHz 1.98 GB RAM (3 sticks that are years old and 1 stick that is less than a year old)
MSI K8NGM2-NBP motherboard
Windows XP Home Edition v5.1 with Service Pack 2




___________________________________



Description Of Problem:

The first reoccurring problem I recall was my CD/DVD burner burning slowly and Nero would report avoiding buffer overrun more than 300+ times for each burn session, whether it be from an image or just burning an audio CD from WAV files).  Nero would also burn at about 2x speed rather than 24x speed or whatever higher speed I select.  Also, I used to be able to burn CDs/DVDs on Nero v6.6.1.4 and run multiple applications at the same time with no lag whatsoever; now, if I burn anything, all other applications run ultra-slow. Additionally, whenever I would play a music CD on my CD/DVD-RAM drive, it would play extremely slowly. My Samsung CD/DVD-RAM drive is less than a year old.

Months later, I get a series of more than 5 random blue screens of death.  In one instance, I took a photo of the screen:



And in this instance, when I rebooted, I got this error message for the first time:



And while the computer was rebooting, there was this repetitive clicking noise. I tried to cold and warm boot several more times, but got the same results. I finally got my computer to boot after opening up the case to blow some dust out with canned air.  I have since then not ever heard that clicking noise again.

The last things I installed was Microsoft Office and StarCraft. Both were installed weeks ago, so I don't understand why all this didn't happen then.  I also did acquire a Maxtor external hard drive some weeks ago for backing up purposes, which required me to install some software weeks ago as well.  As for my current 2 hard drives, they are years old, but I have been defragmenting them multiple times a day for years now.


___________________________________



My Troubleshooting Thus Far:

1. Someone suggested that I run Disk Checker:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Hard-Disk-Utils/Disk-Checker.shtml

I ran Disk Checker (through the Direct Access tab) on all 4 partitions and it did not detect any error, EXCEPT:  (A) My D drive is recognized as unformatted, which makes no sense to me because it obviously is formatted since I have files and folders in there. Disk Checker was even able to run a File Access check (through the second File Access tab) on D drive! What the heck??? (B) Also, the first time I had Disk Check do a Direct Access check on my F drive, I got another blue screen of death. After I rebooted my computer, it was then able to check the partition with no error detected. What the devil??

2. I also ran the Windows XP equivalent of ScanDisk on all 4 drives (My Computer --> right-click on the respective drive --> Properties --> Tools tab --> Check Now... --> check both boxes --> Start) and no errors were detected.

3. I also ran CHKDSK.exe and no error was detected.

4. In one instance where my computer was lagging again, I check Task Manager:





I later found out that my Maxtor external hard drive was triggering some backup software running in the background that was literally sucking 100% of my CPU processing. So I ended that process and my CPU usage dropped back to less than 10%.  Burning CD/DVDs and playing music CDs still lag my computer and burn at a set slow speed though.

5. I tried to see if there are any programs running in the background that is somehow not being listed in Task Manager by checking MSConfig:



6. Seeing that I couldn't find anything suspect in steps 1-5, someone suggested that I run MemTest86+:

http://www.memtest.org/

I get over 300 errors!  However, I don't know if that's necessarily indicative of a RAM problem as I don't know if a bad hard drive can also cause these errors.

I later wondered if maybe just 1 of my 4 sticks of RAM is bad, so I took out all 4 sticks then re-inserted 1 stick in slot 1 for MemTest86+ to test.  I did this individually for the rest of each stick.  I still get errors.  I then tried inserting my newest stick of RAM in each of my 4 slots to see if maybe I have a bad slot.  I still get errors on all 4 slots.

7. Interestingly, I also tried to run Microsoft Windows Memory Diagnostic to test my RAM:

http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

And it would freeze each time it starts.  What the deuce???


___________________________________



My Conclusions Which Are Really Nothing Conclusive As I Am No Computer Expert:

I don't have any! 

Out of all the 7 steps I took, the ONLY error message I got was with MemTest86+.  I know the errors detected aren't necessarily indicative of a RAM problem, especially considering the fact that the repetitive clicking noise I once got strongly suggests a hard drive problem instead.  Or MAYBE my problem is with BOTH my hard drive and RAM???  Or perhaps something else entirely???

[Deerpark]

Wow this is the most thorough post I've seen yet on this forum. If only everyone looking for help supplied this much information. Nice work!

Memtest errors are usually an indication of bad ram, but it can be other things which I might suspect in this case since it's reporting errors on all your modules. I don't think a bad hard drive can cause errors though since it isn't in use when testing with memtest.

Do you have any way of testing a ram module with memtest on a known working computer?

Also a clicking hhd is a bad thing.
You say you got a maxtor hdd? Download seatools and test your hard drive with it.

[AFK]

Wow this is the most thorough post I've seen yet on this forum. If only everyone looking for help supplied this much information. Nice work!

Memtest errors are usually an indication of bad ram, but it can be other things which I might suspect in this case since it's reporting errors on all your modules. I don't think a bad hard drive can cause errors though since it isn't in use when testing with memtest.

Do you have any way of testing a ram module with memtest on a known working computer?

Also a clicking hhd is a bad thing.
You say you got a maxtor hdd? Download seatools and test your hard drive with it.

Sorry, I didn't make that clear enough.  I have 2 Western Digital internal hard drives and 1 recently acquired Maxtor external hard drive.

[AFK]

Also, is this true?

CHKDSK is all the program you need to perform quick tests or surface scans of your drives. Many Windows commercial drive diagnostic packages actually use CHKDSK to perform their testing 'under the hood.'

From this web page: http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1583&page=5

[Deerpark]

Ahh yes of course, I should noticed that on your screen shot.
Then you'll need data lifeguard instead.
http://support.wdc.com/download/index.asp?swid=3

Also, is this true?

CHKDSK is all the program you need to perform quick tests or surface scans of your drives. Many Windows commercial drive diagnostic packages actually use CHKDSK to perform their testing 'under the hood.'

From this web page: http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1583&page=5

I have no idea, but the program I'm talking about is the driver maker's tool to diagnose a faulty hdd. Chkdsk or any other 3rd party program can't do that.

[patio]

The slave drive is failing.

[AFK]

Okay, I ran Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostics and no errors were detected in both internal hard drives.  I also disconnected both internal hard drives and re-ran MemTest86+ with all 4 sticks of RAM, with just the 3 old sticks of RAM, and with just the 1 newer stick of RAM.  I still get errors in all scenarios!

I don't understand how all my sticks of RAM could go bad at the same time.  I don't tinker around with the inside of my computer muck.  Maybe the motherboard is bad, but the motherboard is also pretty new too so I have a hard time believing that.  I am clueless.

[Deerpark]

Could you test one of the "bad" modules on another computer? I have a hunch it might not be the ram modules that's failing.

[AFK]

I talked to some other people, and we currently think the RAM itself is probably fine, but they're just not compatible with my motherboard...and the clicking sound was the hard drive trying to write to incompatible RAM.  Thoughts?

[DeltaSlaya]

The harddrive doesn't directly write to the RAM, the RAM is written to through a bridge.
And a clicking harddrive is BAD, it doesn't mean something's wrong with another component, it means the harddrive is going bad. Have you identified which harddrive is making the noise?

Also, I recommend scanning the RAM on another computer.

You mention defragmenting multiple times a day for numerous years. That is a bit excessive and I would suspect it would cause some wear to the harddrive(s). I'd recommend defragmenting half-weekly, at most, possibly a bit more on a media drive etc. which has large files added /deleted frequently.

[Deerpark]

I agree with DeltaSlaya. A clicking hdd is a dying hdd. If the RAM was incompatible with your mobo you couldn't write to them at all or start your computer for that matter.

[AFK]

Hmm, thanks for the insight, guys.

This is what I'm confused about though: I've run multiple tests on the hard drive, e.g. CHKDSK, HD Tune, etc. and both of my internal hard drives have absolutely zero bad sectors and no other errors.  The only errors I've ever found in all of my testing was with RAM tests.  And that's with testing each stick of RAM individually too.

Maybe if I call Fry's and they say that I can return RAM, I'll just try getting new RAM and see if that will fix the problem?

[DeltaSlaya]

RAM can still run sometimes if there are different timings or manufacturers, just not as stable.

Hard drive checks like the ones you have run do not check the drive head, which sounds like it is hitting something, it can probably still read and write correctly for the meantime.

Try unplugging all your harddrives and then running memtest with individual memory sticks, in the slot closest to the CPU. I don't think memtest would require a harddrive to be present as long as you select the CD drive or whatever as the primary boot device. I doubt this will change anything somehow, which would mean a definite faulty harddrive and a problem with the RAM and / or its relationship with the motherboard ? ?

[AFK]

Try unplugging all your harddrives and then running memtest with individual memory sticks, in the slot closest to the CPU.

Yep, I have already done this and I still get errors with MemTest86+.

[GX1_Man]

If you have ALL of the drives disconnected and you get memtest errors on the individual sticks then that is where your problem. The hard drive failing is a red herring. The key may be in the individual sticks, BUT have you tried each stick individually in the second or middle stop? Any electrical surges lately?