Thunderbird does not delete messages...

[dairyman]

Hi,

I am using MS Windows XP SP2 with Mozilla Thunderbird.
Because I wanted to use it to access my Hotmail account, I installed the Webmail extension.

So after that was done, it downloaded all my messages, I did a few tests to see if it could actually send messages.

That worked fine. But now there is a problem. I deleted I message from the Thunderbird program so I can "reclaim" my Inbox. I went to to the Hotmail (which is now Winblows Live Mail) and the messages were still there.

I checked everything and it's all okay, but for no reason at all IT JUST DOESN'T DELETE IT!!!

Can somebody help?

Thank you.

[patio]

Webmail retains the messages on its server until you delete them through Webmail...TBird is deleting the copies of them that are on your hard drive...
Clear as Mud ? ?

 

[WillyW]

Webmail retains the messages on its server until you delete them through Webmail...

Not for me.        Well... mostly.   

Been using T-Bird w/Hotmail for quite a while, and whenever I deleted an email in T-Bird, upon next checking for mail in the Hotmail account, it would delete it from Hotmail's server.

Just checked again to be sure.    Went to Hotmail page and logged in,  found an email to delete.   Went back to T-Bird and deleted it, then checked mail again with T-Bird.   Then checked again with web interface, and it was gone.
However.....
I happened to notice an email, via the web,  that I had deleted a couple days ago.   Still there.        I guess it misses one every now and then.

[WillyW]

....I checked everything and it's all okay,

"everything" is too broad.   Please be more specific, and describe what you mean.

but for no reason at all IT JUST DOESN'T DELETE IT!!!

Can somebody help?

Using Thunderbird v2.0.0.6 here
Webmail v.1.2.5
Hotmail add-on  1.2.10b10       

I am not using the very latest version of the Hotmail extension because I discovered that it was much slower than this beta version.    This works, so I stayed with it.

Here is what I have configured.
In T-Bird,  right click on the Hotmail account name.   Get a pop up menu.
Choose Properties.

Within Properties of that Hotmail account, go to   Server Settings.
On the right side, look for two check boxes.   
One is    "Leave messages on server"
        Below it is "Until I delete them"

I have both checked.

I hope that helps.

[patio]

Nice catch Willy...i was about to say what was happening is not along the laws of physics...or something along those lines.
When i delete TBird e-mails it does not touch anything on the server.
Glad to know it's doable although i quit worrying when storage went to terrabytes...

[WillyW]

It is nice to have the opportunity to share a tidbit of experience.   

.... although i quit worrying when storage went to terrabytes...

What's that email addy again?    I know some sites that sell *censored*, fake Rolex's, and guarantee you won the Nigerian lottery.   
We can fill your void, pronto!
  

[patio]

Sure thing...it's willyw@___________.com...

Fire Away ! !

      

[dairyman]

"everything" is too broad.   Please be more specific, and describe what you mean.

I checked ALL the settings in Thunderbird, both the 'tick boxes' that said 'Leave messages on server' and 'Until I delete them' were ticked.

The SMTP and POP3 servers are correct, it will download my mail, but it won't delete the messages.

I use:
Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (I just updated from 2.0.0.5).
Webmail 1.2.5
Hotmail 1.2.10

[Broni]

'Leave messages on server'

You have to have this option UN-checked.
If you have it checked, messages stay on serves "until (YOU GO THERE) I delete them" (on server, not in TB)

[dairyman]

Thank you, Broni.

That fixed the problem, but here is another.
Every time I delete some message (spam or any other c*ap), it deletes the entire Inbox.

So if I delete one, it deletes everything. Anyone know what is going on?

[Broni]

Do you keep all your messages in Inbox? If it grows big, it may cause some problems.

Thunderbird keeps its folder in Application Data>TB>profile>mail
Whenever some folder gives you problems, you can try simple trick.
Let's say, Inbox.
First, if you have any messages in Inbox, save them somewhere else (I have an extra folder, named Temp, just for this kind of needs).
Close TB. Open Windows Explorer.
Then, you'll see two folders:
- Inbox
- Inbox.msf
Delete "Inbox" (don't touch "Inbox.msf).
Start TB. Inbox will be automatically rebuilt.

[WillyW]

I checked ALL the settings in Thunderbird, both the 'tick boxes' that said 'Leave messages on server' and 'Until I delete them' were ticked.

The SMTP and POP3 servers are correct, it will download my mail, but it won't delete the messages.

I use:
Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (I just updated from 2.0.0.5).
Webmail 1.2.5
Hotmail 1.2.10

It should.  I say that because mine does, and always has.

See:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Using_webmail_with_your_email_client
Where it says, 
"If you check "Tools -> Account Settings -> Server Settings -> Leave messages on server" you can access your mail both from Thunderbird and from a browser."



You might like to read:

This  thread on the mozillaZine forum.    Note carefully that the first post does not describe your problem exactly.  It is related though.  So you might find something in that thread that helps.
One poster notes some change in the options from older T-Bird to the current version, and goes into how to work with it now.
But do read it carefully!


Just to sure there is no confusion,  attached is a screen capture of my Hotmail account setting in Thunderbird.



[Saving disk space - attachment deleted by admin]

[WillyW]

'Leave messages on server'

You have to have this option UN-checked.

That depends on what he wants to do. 
In his post above, he said

I deleted I message from the Thunderbird program so I can "reclaim" my Inbox. I went to to the Hotmail (which is now Winblows Live Mail) and the messages were still there.

which indicates to me that he expects messages to be deleted when he deletes them in T-Bird, and not before.

If he leaves it unchecked,  I believe that is telling T-Bird to delete messages from the server immediately upon downloading.

If you have it checked, messages stay on serves "until (YOU GO THERE) I delete them" (on server, not in TB)

Not quite.
That's what the other checkbox covers.   If it too is on,  then upon his next 'Get mail' with T-Bird of Hotmail,  any messages that he has already deleted within T-Bird should be deleted on the server.

[WillyW]

Thank you, Broni.

That fixed the problem,

Did it?   

What should be happening, is that now whenever you 'Get Mail' your Hotmail with T-Bird,  it should download the messages and delete them from  your Hotmail server account.

If you are satisfied with this,  all well and good.

Personally,  I see no reason not to leave them on the server.   That way, should I ever wish to access them from some other computer via the web, they are available.   Until I delete them within T-Bird.... just as the config option we've been talking about allows me to do.

but here is another.
Every time I delete some message (spam or any other c*ap), it deletes the entire Inbox.

Where?  which Inbox?     on the Hotmail server that you can view via the web?
Or within T-Bird?

So if I delete one, it deletes everything. Anyone know what is going on?

If it is the Hotmail server inbox,  then yes... that's what you've told it to do when you unchecked that box.

If you are referring to your T-Bird inbox,  then that is a different problem.

[WillyW]

...
Thunderbird keeps its folder in Application Data>TB>profile>mail
Whenever some folder gives you problems, you can try simple trick.
Let's say, Inbox.
First, if you have any messages in Inbox, save them somewhere else (I have an extra folder, named Temp, just for this kind of needs).
Close TB. Open Windows Explorer.
Then, you'll see two folders:
- Inbox
- Inbox.msf
Delete "Inbox" (don't touch "Inbox.msf).
Start TB. Inbox will be automatically rebuilt.

Wouldn't it be easier to just use T-Bird only?

To make my Inboxs more manageable, all I do is create a sub-folder below Inbox for old mail.   A couple clicks, and I can simply move anything I want out of the given Inbox to its 'Old mail' box.   The compact.

Perhaps I didn't understand what you were trying to accomplish.....

[Broni]

I see no reason not to leave them on the server

I have it set, as he does, now.
It's a matter of choice. Actually, I never go to web to dig in my messages. I see no reason.

[Broni]

Perhaps I didn't understand what you were trying to accomplish.....

What sometimes happens, some folders in TB got corrupted, and the easiest way to correct it, is to delete "Inbox" folder in Windows Explorer.
I asked him also (as you can read in my previous post) how full his Inbox was, because that's another reason his Inbox may not be working correctly.
Thirdly, you are right about compacting...I have it set to "Automatic".
I hope, this clears any confusion.

[WillyW]

dairyman:

If you have not already found and read it,  here is a good article to read:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Keep_it_working_%28Thunderbird%29

On that page is a link to:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Compacting_folders
and it is good reading too.

Attached is a screen cap of mine.   I like to be reminded, else I'd probably forget!

Also, there are extensive forums for Thunderbird.  Their site is running slow for some reason right now.  That just started.  Could be working on it.   I was going to give you the link to the main Thunderbird forum start page.
But you can find it easily with Google.
Using the Search function there, you are likely to find more info on your topic.




[Saving disk space - attachment deleted by admin]

[WillyW]

I see no reason not to leave them on the server

I have it set, as he does, now.

Does it work as it should?   

Got another email account somewhere?....  send yourself some test emails...  experiment with it. 
Let us know.

It's a matter of choice. Actually, I never go to web to dig in my messages. I see no reason.

I too rarely ever use the web interface.    But, since I can config it this way.... why not?          It might come in handy some day. 

[WillyW]

What sometimes happens, some folders in TB got corrupted,

I have never had that experience.

and the easiest way to correct it, is to delete "Inbox" folder in Windows Explorer.
I asked him also (as you can read in my previous post) how full his Inbox was, because that's another reason his Inbox may not be working correctly.

Right.  I saw.   That's why I explained my method -  it seemed easier.

Thirdly, you are right about compacting...I have it set to "Automatic".
I hope, this clears any confusion.

We were posting at the same time.          I saw the warning that somebody had posted while I was composing,  but I overrode it.
In it, above,  I mentioned compacting, where to go to read all about it,
and included a screen cap.

[WillyW]

dairyman:

Something just came to mind.   I've been overlooking it this whole time!

... But now there is a problem. I deleted I message from the Thunderbird program so I can "reclaim" my Inbox. I went to to the Hotmail (which is now Winblows Live Mail) and the messages were still there.

You said that you:
Deleted message from T-Bird.
Went to Hotmail.
deleted message was still there.

You didn't say that you:
Deleted message from T-Bird.
Ran 'Get Mail' with T-Bird on that Hotmail account again.
Went to Hotmail with browser.
deleted message was still there.

You've got to run a 'Get Mail' so that T-Bird can get into your Hotmail account and delete the messages it is supposed to delete.

Also note:   When you make changes to these settings within the setup of T-Bird,  I'm not sure that they will take effect on messages already on your Hotmail account.   In other words, there is a chance that it might appear to behave strangely, until you really think about it.   
So when you are making config changes, testing, etc.,   I suggest you always test with new messages. 

[Broni]

Got another email account somewhere?....  send yourself some test emails...  experiment with it.

I don't want to sound paternalistic, but I've been with Mozilla/Netscape, since early '90s (Mosaic, it was called, then), and I just know.

[WillyW]

Got another email account somewhere?....  send yourself some test emails...  experiment with it.

I don't want to sound paternalistic,

Paternalistic?  ??            towards me?        that's so preposterous that I'm laughing.   

but I've been with Mozilla/Netscape, since early '90s (Mosaic, it was called, then), and I just know.

you just know....  What? 

[dairyman]

Where?  which Inbox?     on the Hotmail server that you can view via the web?
Or within T-Bird?

Within the Hotmail server I can view via the web.

[patio]

This is not a Thunderbird issue...this is an issue where the user doesn't understand what an e-mail client can and cannot do with a web-based e-mail account.
Simple as that.

[dairyman]

Well there is an easier way to fix it, uninstall Thunderbird, close this topic, switch to Mac.
Simple.

[patio]

That's not what i'm saying at all...until you tell the mail server what to do it's gonna do nothing.
I rum TBird and have for years,
Under TBird i have many accounts...
My ISP account....if i delete messages here they are removed from the server immediately.
Yahoo...if i delete messages in TBird they are gone from my hard drive...but they still exist on the Yahoo server unless i travel to Yahoo on a web page...check them and select delete.
GMail...i have 4 GMail accounts, i have it set up as was described above and when i delete something in TBird it is also deleted off the GMail servers as well....

I don't know how to explain it any further other than any web-based e-mail account has it's own behaviours...whether you are using TBird or not.
I'm done.

[WillyW]

...
Yahoo...if i delete messages in TBird they are gone from my hard drive...but they still exist on the Yahoo server unless i travel to Yahoo on a web page...check them and select delete.   ...

Just a quick fyi:
I too have a Yahoo email account.  Since I rarely use it, I didn't know what to expect.
After reading your above,  decided to test it.
With both      Leave messages on server       and      Until I delete them checked,    it worked fine.     Delete an email in T-Bird,  run another Get mail, and then check again with web interface.   Message was deleted.

This is not a Thunderbird issue...this is an issue where the user doesn't understand what an e-mail client can and cannot do with a web-based e-mail account.
Simple as that.

You just might be right.     

[WillyW]

Where?  which Inbox?     on the Hotmail server that you can view via the web?
Or within T-Bird?

Within the Hotmail server I can view via the web.

Ok.  So it not related to T-Bird.     

[patio]

Just a quick fyi:
I too have a Yahoo email account.  Since I rarely use it, I didn't know what to expect.
After reading your above,  decided to test it.
With both      Leave messages on server       and      Until I delete them checked,    it worked fine.     Delete an email in T-Bird,  run another Get mail, and then check again with web interface.   Message was deleted.

This does not happen in my account...same settings.
TBird ver. 2.0.0.6 all updates...

[WillyW]

Just a quick fyi:
I too have a Yahoo email account.  Since I rarely use it, I didn't know what to expect.
After reading your above,  decided to test it.
With both      Leave messages on server       and      Until I delete them checked,    it worked fine.     Delete an email in T-Bird,  run another Get mail, and then check again with web interface.   Message was deleted.

This does not happen in my account...same settings.
TBird ver. 2.0.0.6 all updates...

Isn't that strange?

T-Bird 2.0.0.6
Webmail 1.2.5
Yahoo 1.3.0
I believe these are the latest too.

There must be something we've overlooked.

[WillyW]

What have you got here?

(see attached screen cap)


[getting space - attachment deleted by admin]

[dairyman]

What have you got here?

(see attached screen cap)

You mean what settings have I ticked on the 'POP' tab?

Just Mark emails as read on server.
Could it be because once I read it, it deletes it?

[WillyW]

What have you got here?

(see attached screen cap)

You mean what settings have I ticked on the 'POP' tab?

That was meant for patio.  Sorry, I didn't quote him to make it more clear.

Just Mark emails as read on server.

That option is in the Hotmail add-on, not the Yahoo add-on pictured above.

Could it be because once I read it, it deletes it?

I don't know what you mean.   

[dairyman]

Hey, is anyone still out there?
I'm still waiting to decide whether to uninstall Thunderbird, even though I said I would earlier.

[WillyW]

Hey,

"hey" yourself.

is anyone still out there?

Yes.

I'm still waiting to decide whether to uninstall Thunderbird,

It is excellent software with a proven record, used by many with little problem.  It is constantly being worked on / updated.    It costs nothing.
I can't think of a reason not to use it.    But that's me (and many, many others too).

even though I said I would earlier.

Well - that certainly made it look like we were done here. 

You probably just need to get more familiar with it, and its options.  Be sure to understand what I said in Reply #20 above.

[wwroller]

@WillyW

I was tearing my hair out trying to figure out why "sometimes Thunderbird deletes from the server as I expect, and sometimes it leaves deleted items there."

I never figured we need a Get Mail command in order to complete the delete-from-server operation, because it's also set to empty trash on exit.  But that little tidbit solved my problem, so I just wanted to thank you.

WWR

[WillyW]

@WillyW

I was tearing my hair out trying to figure out why "sometimes Thunderbird deletes from the server as I expect, and sometimes it leaves deleted items there."

I never figured we need a Get Mail command in order to complete the delete-from-server operation, because it's also set to empty trash on exit.  But that little tidbit solved my problem, so I just wanted to thank you.

WWR

You're very welcome.
This appears to have been your first post here -  so also,  Welcome to the forum.   


Wow...     ...    this thread is almost three years old.
Thanks for commenting.     
I'm glad to know that it - even being this old - was helpful to you.