John McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns .....

[mcxeb52!]

it's wierd. Is Obama any better?

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

It's weird how this was posted in the Other Section. 

[mcxeb52!]

It's weird how this was posted in the Other Section. 

Where should I have posted it then?

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

I moved it to Off Topic. 

[Zylstra]

Eh.

Its a true fact:
The US political system is a huge failure to the people, but a huge success to the higher-ups.

You NEED money, LOTS AND LOTS of MONEY to become "high up"

NO ONE is representing you right now that understands what its truly like to NOT live without money in todays present world.

It kind of sucks, doesnt it?

[mcxeb52!]

Eh.

Its a true fact:
The US political system is a huge failure to the people, but a huge success to the higher-ups.

You NEED money, LOTS AND LOTS of MONEY to become "high up"

NO ONE is representing you right now that understands what its truly like to NOT live without money in todays present world.

It kind of sucks, doesnt it?

Too bad being the president makes you the highest paid politician in the U.S. with more rights that are bestowed upon you the milisecond that 'president' is added to your name 

[CBMatt]

If it's any consolation, I don't know how many houses John McCain owns either, so I know how he feels.

[kpac]

Where should I have posted it then?

Other = Other computer related questions/topics.
Off Topic = Everything else.

Read the descriptions.

 

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

We should have a poll here to vote for president. 

[kpac]

Good idea.

[Kip]

McCain actually does not own any houses, his wife does.  (Link: McCain family owns 8 properties)

[mcxeb52!]

We should have a poll here to vote for president. 

Yes, I added a poll above. Enjoy 

[kpac]

Don't care the least.

[patio]

Don't care the least.

Which is exactly why we're stuck with the current crop of clowns in office...

[kpac]

Which is exactly why we're stuck with the current crop of clowns in office...

LOL!   Is it that bad? I'm not from the US, BTW.

[mcxeb52!]

Current President Bush is a clown himself. Bill Clinton was one of the best U.S. presidents that was not a major clown.

[fireballs]

but he did poke some ugly birds...!

FB

[evilfantasy]

but he did poke some ugly birds...!

I lol'd!

[CBMatt]

I personally thought Monica was kinda cute.  And I've got to admit that I enjoyed Clinton's term in office.  Sure, he's a bit of a worldwide joke, but he was fun and likeable and he played a mean sax.

[fireballs]

i love how many times clinton is portrayed in American comedy, things like simpsons, faimlly guy etc. They just love taking the mick out of him!

[mcxeb52!]

dancing bush!
http://www.miniclip.com/games/dancing-bush/en/

[kpac]

dancing bush!

Funny you should say that.... I live in a small parish called Skeheenarinky (Ireland), and it is the Irish for Dancing Bush, named after an actual bush/tree in the area.

dancingbush is also my mother's email address... 

[fireballs]

dancingbush is also my mother's email address... 

that's disturbing.

FB

[kpac]

that's disturbing.

FB

Why?

[computeruler]

i voted oboma i dont want a forgetfull president * hey what does this big red button do?? launch sequence initiated nucular war has now been declared on china 5, 4, 3, 2 ,1*

[CBMatt]

You'd think they would've moved that button somewhere safer by now.

[computeruler]

ya lol i think on the commercial it says that mkain has 7 houses

[mcxeb52!]

ya lol i think on the commercial it says that mkain has 7 houses

I don't think John McCain doesn't know where his properties are located, I think it's more that he doesn't know how many buildings it contains that counts as a house?

[soybean]

i voted oboma i dont want a forgetfull president * hey what does this big red button do?? launch sequence initiated nucular war has now been declared on china 5, 4, 3, 2 ,1*

I don't think he'll have any problem whatsoever regarding the "big red button".  As a former Navy pilot who was shot down in Vietnam and spent 5 1/2 years as a POW, he's uniquely qualified when it comes to defense issues.

[squall_01]

Cliton wasnt the greastest if we had nominated his wife for the finals an she one it would be another hittler thing.  We have a dictator ship instead.  At any rate we choose Bush, however he isnt liveing up to what we expected him to do.  So oboma may not share the so called "american religon"  but that dont make him any differnt isnt the usa about shareing an blending differnt religons?  As long as gas is lowers an the price on goods fall an we get out of Iraq an stuff where okay.

[Zylstra]

Hosterhoven key....

Got medicate problems? Grab him by the neck and throw him around!
Taxes too high? Grab him by the neck and throw him around!
Gas prices too high? Grab him by the neck and throw him around!
Unable to live like you used to? Grab him by the neck and throw him around!
House market crash? Grab him by the neck and throw him around!

[Aegis]

Being a prisoner of war does not make anyone more qualified to be commander in chief than anyone else, because one does not become a prisoner of war when one is commander in chief -- unless you're President Bush, and you don't have the good sense to leave alone a war your father wouldn't fight.  He made us all prisoners to a war which is an insult to the good members of our military forces, worldwide.

[squall_01]

cant argue against that.

[mroilfield]

It really doesn't matter who we put into office. Every president stands up and says what he will do or won't do but until he gets the rest of the numpties in congress to work with him nothing is going to work.

Take Bush for instance. When he (and the rest of the US) wanted to go to war congress backed him up on but now they are all up talking bad about it and say that bush went to war. It is funny how they are forgetting they wanted the war as well. Bush has tried to do some of the things that he promised but congress keeps shooting him.

It has been that way for every president and will continue to be that way until we make a complete ovrhaul of the whole system.

[squall_01]

Thats politace my friend, where have you been.  A president is more of a figure head then any thing.  More the voice of the people an what the goverment says he can say.  Yes, but do you really want to get rid of something thats been working since the seperation,  true that some of the old things need to be into to play more but who will say that they want it.  Rebellion?  Boycott?

[Zylstra]

Did it ever occur to anyone that the US is a communist nation?

Our wonderful system of "freedom" can be re-written any time to take away basic rights, which happens with the P.A.T.R.I.O.T act, and what Abraham Lincoln did during war times.

[Aegis]

We're not quite communist, but are in thrall to money and special interests.

I recently learned that the People's Republic of China looks pretty democratic on paper, because they have an elected "congress" which, in turn, elects the president and prime minister.  The problem is, the only candidates for which they can vote are those submitted by the communist party.

Now, before we laugh too much, how different are things here in America?  Sure, on paper, any natural citizen can run, but face it, while you can be a member of another party, and get elected to state legislature, governor, or even Congress, if you're not Republican or Democrat, you're not getting elected President.  It's a two party lock.

[Zylstra]

George Washington tried to communicate a very big idea to us and make it extremely clear:
Do NOT use political parties, all it will cause is problems.

Sure enough, he dies, and look what happens.

Political parties are a bad idea... personally, I dont believe in parties. If someone asks me if I am Democratic or Republican, I simply say: "Neither."
If I was old enough to vote this November, I would vote for Barrack Obama since he has a lot of views that I am glad he is focusing on, not to mention, his 18 month war end plan.
But, heres another thing: John McCain has a lot of good ideas as well, and both share great moral values.
So, who do you vote for?
Maybe we should eliminate presidents, and just vote on every issue that comes by every month or so... sure, it would take time and resources, but, if it were set up right, I bet it would be worthwhile... (still, I realize such a system has many flaws, but then again, so does the current system...)

[Aegis]

No, you're right -- as much as your suggestion may have flaws, we have the technology to vote by referendum.  This would horrify the analysts who like to say that the common people aren't educated enough to decide what's best for them!   

[mcxeb52!]

If we get rid of presidents, who would represent the United States in terms of foreign affairs?

John McCain picked Sarah Palin to be his V.P.?

[drmsucks]

Palin hit it out of the park tonight - absolutely brilliant!

Finally, a breath of fresh air and truth instead of empty words based on nothing.

[Aegis]

First of all, Obama's words aren't empty and based on "nothing."  He has called on each of us to be more involved -- something I haven't been in years.

I just read Palin's speech.  It's good.  See, the Republicans criticize the "tax and spend" Democrats, but what have the Republicans been for the last eight years?  "Don't tax and spend."  I truly hope she knows what it means to balance our Federal budget.  Seems like the last President to give us one was, uh, Clinton.  You can say he had the benefit of a lot of tax income from a good economy.  Fine -- it's true.  This economy of ours has been going downhill since the dot-com bust of 2000, and all we ever hear from our illustrious leader is that the economy is better than we think it is.  Maybe for him.

McCain said he's going to get bin Laden.  Really?  It sounds good, but "he's" not going to do it -- if it is done, it will be done by our fine young men and women of the armed services.  Sounds a little too much like "mission accomplished."  Remember that?

Truth?  We're a long way from "Truth" on both sides of the aisle.

[squall_01]

If any other system worked we would be useing it.  At one point we found communistism to be a good thing.  But if you flat look at it,  its more of a dictatorship.  Yes that idea has been expressed an at one point Bush had that chance but Macine isnt getting it.  The Country is in a huge debt but some how we make money?  The American people know what we want a good percent of the time.  Its that if you want a system like that you take away the orginal american society,  yes I do refer before black freedoms.  But at that point the goverment wasnt as currpted.

[drmsucks]

First of all, Obama's words aren't empty and based on "nothing." 

He has absolutely NO published work experience or published life experience to raise an expectation that he can actually DO or accomplish anything - speechifying, having "visions" and/or "hope" is not the same as having a list of bona fide, concrete achievements; an academic resume and a vision of hope is fine for a 22 year old - it is not a sufficient history for a 47 year old candidate for the presidency of the United States.

This is a computer forum and I wouldn't presume to interject politics - but, someone else started this topic. Now I'm out

[Zylstra]

Obama takes an interesting approach to speeches... he covers a lot of big ideas, and does use a lot of "power" and interesting word choices in his speeches.

In the 1960's, Presidents started using speech writers. I really think that the presidents should make their own speeches... if they truly care, they should be able to get over their points by themselves.

I think its poor (not talking about you, Drsmucks) that so many of the McCain supporters are targeting Obama, and focusing on his speeches, and how they think his weak point is that he can have great speeches, but that its all a "show."

Martin Luther King Jr. had extremely impressive speeches, but, that doesn't mean he was wrong, or trying to make a show. Impressive speeches are a way to get the audiences attention, nothing more. People might as well want to pay attention.

[Aegis]

Just what have all the so-called "experienced" people accomplished in the last thirty years, and especially in the last eight year??   

[squall_01]

The guy was rapidly blinking during his speech.  Thats a sign that he wont hold his word.  Also, he was saing that the american people should join in hand.  But he claims that he'll end the war?  Makes you think?  Do you trust him?

[mcxeb52!]

I'd vote for Obama. I'm a democrat.

However, in the event that McCain wins the Nov 2nd election, it would be ok only if he did his duty and made me a happy camper like Clinton did 

But Palin is a fresh face. An old commander with a lady of the next generation?

[squall_01]

thats funny cause I'm independent.  I see what you mean.

[Zylstra]

I was discussing this with my politics-obsessed music teacher.

I mentioned: "He's a bit full of himself in his speeches" and that I didnt think that his speeches were really that great.
His response: "<Laughing> Thats really about the best he can do. He's just not into todays technology*"
*Technology does not necessarily mean electronics. Keep this in mind.

His speech is out of his "language."
Chances are, he is unfamiliar with some of the word choices that were used in his speech, which was professionally written. Sentence structure, word choice, and even grammar and emphasizations (for the record, this isnt a word) change over time.
Thats one of my two greatest fears with McCain:

Does he know enough about the modern world?
Sure, you can learn, but, the older you get, the thicker your brain gets, and the less accepting you are of new ideas. This is actually proven. As you get older, new ideas are difficult to comprehend.

And will he live long enough to be our president?
He is older. He may seem healthy, but, age can turn tables quite quickly. If he were to die, the whole nation would go into "Devastation" mode, and things would really slow down for quite a while.

I mean no disrespect to the older generations in our world. I realize that some old people are very into technology, but even then, I don't really see that in McCain.

[typhoeus]

Neither McCain nor Obama represents my values.  Plus, no-one really knows what Obama thinks, because he has not told us and he did nothing as a senator.  I tend to lean towards the Libertarians' views, but this spreadsheet told me I was more in line with the Constitutional candidate: http://www.2008electionprocon.org/candidatesurvey.htm  On a side note, Sarah Palin is a refreshing change.  And she doesn't look half bad either.

[squall_01]

The thing is thats why we have a vice, yes every thing would be slow.  At least with mccain you know where you stand.  On the other side of the fence.  Check our fiance stats.  Congress is spending more money then we have to mine an get oil an bring it back.  We have that stuff here.  Why not use it in reverse to pay back the money we owe?

[typhoeus]

I am totally in favor of drilling here, but I do not agree with several of John McCain's policies, like abortion.  John McCain has been in the Senate for many years.  I believe he is part of the problem, not part of the solution.  While Sarah Palin has some good views, she is not the Presidential candidate, she is the Vice Presidential Candidate.  I would rather vote for the Libertarians or Independents.  It's time America moved away from the two-party system.

[Zylstra]

Abortion... thats a really difficult one...
I'm not 100% pro-life, or pro-choice... I disagree with using Abortion as "birth control", however, if it was risking someones health to be pregnant, or of it really was a huge accident, or rape, then it should be fine.
I'm also not a woman, nor is John McCain, or Obama. I think its partially something guys will never fully understand.

Check our fiance stats.

Finance, you mean? (I am guessing it was a typo)

I dont think drilling is the answer to our energy "crisis".
We can drill all we want, but, in the end, no matter what, we are going to run out. Oil wont be around forever. I think we really should look into research of "Green" alternatives, as well as promotion of the alternatives, and pushing people to use them.
As Dead_Reckon was just telling me, we have all the propane we need right now, and propane is also quite efficient. People could start converting their vehicles to propane or natural gas even. It can be more efficient than Electricity.


I also think we should attempt to really start fixing our debt...
We will never be debt free as long as our politics system stays intact. Theres a reason for this, revert to High School History for a moment for me, people:

In the early days of our government, debt was purposely created with Great Britain. Why? So Great Britain cared about our well-being.
As long as we owed them money, they will want it back eventually, and they will not attack us.
Well, heres the con of this system:
If we start owing too much, and if they see us going into economic failure, they may demand their money back. Thats where things get tough, since right now, its impossible for us to pay back any country we borrow money from, we dont have any money.
Since we are in debt, each dollar we spend has more debt (in Interest) attached to it. For that debt, we borrow more money, which also has interest. The US borrows money at interest, since we cant make money out of thin air.

Heres something to ask yourself:
When was the last time you saw the inside of Fort Knox?
How do we even know there is gold in there "backing up" the dollar, which, personally, to me is nothing but paper?
We don't.

Before the 1920's, on the Dollar Bill, it said: "Redeemable for Gold"
After the 1920's, this was removed, and all gold was demanded back. What happened to it?
At this point in time, our money became worth nothing, gold backing it up or not. We can not redeem a dollar bill for an actual value.
Sure, we can buy one dollar pieces, but the metals inside are worth less than a dollar to make it cheaper to produce.

What do you think of our economy now?
I think I want to move to Canada...

[typhoeus]

In some very special cases, abortion might be okay.  But the fact remains that it is still killing an innocent, defenseless life.  And yes, it is alive when they are calling it a "fetus."

Yes, we should research alternative energy sources, but drilling should start also.  In fact, we should have started researching alternative energy sources along time ago.  If we had been researching solar panels, they might be affordable now.  Also, more nuclear power plants should be built.  They are highly efficient and perfectly safe.  Goverment subsidies should be stopped.  They are hurtful to the economy.

The national debt is, I believe, unsolvable at this point.  With the billions of dollars we are in debt, and more spending all the time, I think an economic collapse is inevitable.  But perhaps the economy will right itself after a while.  And you are right, there is no gold whatsoever backing up our paper money.  The best thing to invest in now is gold itself, or guns.

[computeruler]

good idea zylstra LETS MOVE TO CANADA!!!!!!!!!!! and we can all move into a mansion and make a ch cult thiny!!!!

[typhoeus]

Wrong.  My idea for years has been to move to Antartica.  There is an unclaimed piece of land that can be settled if we build a bio-dome.  I need researchers to help me build it, people to fund it, and in return you may live there.  I get to live there because it was my idea. 

[Zylstra]

If we look at events like Chernobyl, we see that nuclear power isnt always safe.

Sure, we know what went wrong (graphite is a reactive... we discovered that the hard way) , but what if something else somewhere else goes wrong?

It affects a large area, and kills many people when something goes wrong. I'm not willing to risk it.

Dam power (Hydro Electrics) is safe, and only has one environmental impact, and that is on fish. All you need is a descent river.
Its also the cheapest power you can get.

BTW: Were trillions of dollars in debt... not just billions. I wish it were billions, then Bill Gates could solve half of it...

[squall_01]

Didnt have time to read replies.  But Yes I agree.  But at the rate things are plastics are the social structer of are economy.  Go threw your house an name something that isnt plastic made?  I mean the fact theres none in your home.  You cant for the most part.  So oil will still be used an even if we did there would be a lot of carbon dieoxide in the air causeing gobal warming an ....... but the point is see what I'm getting at.

[Zylstra]

My Piano isnt made of plastic, nor the couch I am sitting on, our furnace has no plastic (its old..), the tables we have here have no plastic, my stepdads built in desk has no plastic, there is no plastic used for the construction of our house (which is also old...), I own a computer almost completely built with Metal...

For us, we do try and avoid cheap plastic things.. but there are definitely a lot.
We need to come up with a material that will biodegrade within at least 100 years underground...
Plastics will be around for a long time, and of all things, they will cause problems with the ocean more than anything else.

[fireballs]

there is no plastic used for the construction of our house

I severely doubt that. Does your house have any insulation? water pipes? electrical fittings? no?

I own a computer almost completely built with Metal...

really? it's got no motherboard then? no transistors?

If we look at events like Chernobyl, we see that nuclear power isnt always safe.

Sure, we know what went wrong (graphite is a reactive... we discovered that the hard way) , but what if something else somewhere else goes wrong?

We knew it already they were experimenting with how far they could push the station, didn't turn out right unfortunately.

Dam power (Hydro Electrics) is safe, and only has one environmental impact, and that is on fish. All you need is a descent river.

One environmental impact? certainly doesn't. Desertification downstream, flooding upstream, extinction, deteriation of water quality etc.

FB

[Zylstra]

there is no plastic used for the construction of our house

I severely doubt that. Does your house have any insulation? water pipes? electrical fittings? no?

The house doesnt use plastic insulation... just fiberglass. The water pipes are metal and copper, most of its been there for quite a long time. The electrical fitting is also metal. Electrical wires... well thats a tough one... they didnt use plastic in the early 1900's when the electrical was put in... it was kind of like a fabric...

I own a computer almost completely built with Metal...

really? it's got no motherboard then? no transistors?

I said "Almost". The transistors are built with a plastic shell, however, they are very exposed for the most part... the motherboard is built with silicone of course.
I dont understand why you would want a plastic case though...

If we look at events like Chernobyl, we see that nuclear power isnt always safe.

Sure, we know what went wrong (graphite is a reactive... we discovered that the hard way) , but what if something else somewhere else goes wrong?

We knew it already they were experimenting with how far they could push the station, didn't turn out right unfortunately.

They weren't experimenting to push things, it was a deal with miscommunication with the day shift and night shift of the plant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

Dam power (Hydro Electrics) is safe, and only has one environmental impact, and that is on fish. All you need is a descent river.

One environmental impact? certainly doesn't. Desertification downstream, flooding upstream, extinction, deteriation of water quality etc.
FB

Desertification? Not really. Depending on the kind of dam, the water run can continue like it was before, and flooding upstream can be quite limited as well. Extinction? Could you provide an example, that didnt happen with any of the dams here.
Water quality was fine for the dams here as well.

[fireballs]

Sewage pipes, guttering, windows, flooring coverings, kitchen appliances, paint the list is almost endless but i'm not trying to have a dig at you individually it's just as a society we don't understand how reliant we are on plastics.

the Baiji... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiji

The 2007 IUCN Red List classifies the Baiji as a critically endangered (CR) species, and acknowledges the species is possibly extinct (PE).[1]

The Baiji population declined drastically in recent decades as China industrialized and made heavy use of the river for fishing, transportation, and hydroelectricity.

FB

[Zylstra]

Sewage pipes, guttering, windows, flooring coverings, kitchen appliances, paint the list is almost endless but i'm not trying to have a dig at you individually it's just as a society we don't understand how reliant we are on plastics.

Our sewage pipes are metal, we dont have gutters, the windows are wood and glass, the kitchen appliance... well, that does have plastic... our paint is probably lead outside, and our outer walls are made of cement and asbestos (yes, I live in a walking safety hazard.)
I know we do have quite a bit of latex pain on the house though, it was repainted in... 2004 I think (we werent living here at that time.)

Yes, I know your not picking at me as an individual, its a neutral tone discussion.

This home is probably more "green" than a modern one, since there was so much that didnt exist (plastics wise) when it was built in the 1900's, and so much of it hasnt been replaced.


the Baiji... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiji

The 2007 IUCN Red List classifies the Baiji as a critically endangered (CR) species, and acknowledges the species is possibly extinct (PE).[1]
The Baiji population declined drastically in recent decades as China industrialized and made heavy use of the river for fishing, transportation, and hydroelectricity.

FB
[/quote]
That, I did not know. I can see why larger fresh water creatures would be endangered, however, in certain places in the US, I think if we look at the eco system closely, we can determine how safe it is to put in a dam.

I live near this thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Coulee_Dam
(No, I'm not concerned about concealing my location... anyone who looks at my IP address can figure out I live in Central Washington)

"Installed generating capacity: 6809 MW" You wouldn't believe how much excess power we are producing. Theres four power houses, one entire power house that constantly runs doesn't even really dedicate power to anything.. Eventually, we will be selling our extremely cheap power to California.
Hydro Electrics are quite common here, especially on the Columbia.

When it was built, there were two effects:
1) Part of an Indian Reservation was taken over by water, and due to the hate towards Indians during the time it was built, it took a very long time for them to receive any sort of compensation for it.
2) Salmon populations decreased since no one had thought of a fish latter. Later on, a fish latter was built, and salmon restoration began.

[patio]

One benefit of the high price of oil is there is a greater incentive dollar wise to recycle plastics...
Their not as harmful as you think because of the fact they don't degrade that easily...
The lake i live near built an artificial reef from recycled plastics and the plant life and fish loved it...better than used tires for sure.

[typhoeus]

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle

[mroilfield]

Since Oil got brought up I just couldn't help but post a list of just a few things partially made from OIL.

Ammonia, Anesthetics, Antihistamines, Artificial limbs, Artificial Turf, Antiseptics, Aspirin, Auto Parts, Awnings, Balloons, Ballpoint pens, Bandages, Beach Umbrellas, Boats, Cameras, Candles, Car Battery Cases, Carpets, Caulking, Combs, Cortisones, Cosmetics, Crayons, Credit Cards, Curtains, Deodorants, Detergents, Dice, Disposable Diapers, Dolls, Dyes, Eye Glasses, Electrical Wiring Insulation, Faucet Washers, Fishing Rods, Fertilizer, Fishing Line, Fishing Lures, Food Preservatives, Food Packaging, Garden Hose, Glue, Hair Coloring, Hair Curlers, Hand Lotion, Hearing Aids, Heart Valves, Ink, Insect Spray, Insecticides, Linoleum, Lip Stick, Milk Jugs, Nail Polish, Oil Filters, Pantyhose, Perfume, Petroleum Jelly, Rubber Cement, Rubbing Alcohol, Shampoo, Shoes, Toothpaste, Trash Bags, Upholstery, Vitamin Capsules, Water Pipes, Clothing Ink, Parachutes, Telephones, Enamel, Epoxy paint, Car sound insulation, Cassettes, Motorcycle helmets, Pillows, Shower doors, Refrigerator linings, Electrical tape, Safety glass, Nylon rope, Ice buckets, Toilet seats, Denture adhesive, Loudspeakers, Movie film, Candles, Water pipes, Golf balls, Sunglasses, Soft contact lenses, Footballs, Paint brushes, Fan belts, Luggage, Toothbrushes, Ice cube trays, Plywood adhesive…

So when you see these people that say they are tottally green I can just about guarantee you they are full of it.

[fireballs]

...and of those things that are not made of oil they're almost guaranteed to have been processed using fossil fuels.

Metal as an example, mined, transported, refined and formed all using fossil fuels.

FB

[computeruler]

all this political stuff is too much for me

[mcxeb52!]

does anybody know anything about joe biden? If Palin were a democrat, that would be a nice git but she isn't/

[Aegis]

I think Joe Biden is a good running mate for Obama.  When the Democrats had their primaries, it was Biden, and a couple of the governors that really made the most sense of things.  I don't know why Biden didn't get farther in the primaries.  He can be an effective foreign relations vice president, without (I think) us having to worry about what he does behind the scenes.  (I don't want to write too much -- our current vice president might invite me to go hunting with him.   )

[mcxeb52!]

at least obama's got someone to ask when he's not sure what to do?

[Aegis]

at least obama's got someone to ask when he's not sure what to do?

Sure, just like every president has.