John McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns .....

[fireballs]

there is no plastic used for the construction of our house

I severely doubt that. Does your house have any insulation? water pipes? electrical fittings? no?

I own a computer almost completely built with Metal...

really? it's got no motherboard then? no transistors?

If we look at events like Chernobyl, we see that nuclear power isnt always safe.

Sure, we know what went wrong (graphite is a reactive... we discovered that the hard way) , but what if something else somewhere else goes wrong?

We knew it already they were experimenting with how far they could push the station, didn't turn out right unfortunately.

Dam power (Hydro Electrics) is safe, and only has one environmental impact, and that is on fish. All you need is a descent river.

One environmental impact? certainly doesn't. Desertification downstream, flooding upstream, extinction, deteriation of water quality etc.

FB

[Zylstra]

there is no plastic used for the construction of our house

I severely doubt that. Does your house have any insulation? water pipes? electrical fittings? no?

The house doesnt use plastic insulation... just fiberglass. The water pipes are metal and copper, most of its been there for quite a long time. The electrical fitting is also metal. Electrical wires... well thats a tough one... they didnt use plastic in the early 1900's when the electrical was put in... it was kind of like a fabric...

I own a computer almost completely built with Metal...

really? it's got no motherboard then? no transistors?

I said "Almost". The transistors are built with a plastic shell, however, they are very exposed for the most part... the motherboard is built with silicone of course.
I dont understand why you would want a plastic case though...

If we look at events like Chernobyl, we see that nuclear power isnt always safe.

Sure, we know what went wrong (graphite is a reactive... we discovered that the hard way) , but what if something else somewhere else goes wrong?

We knew it already they were experimenting with how far they could push the station, didn't turn out right unfortunately.

They weren't experimenting to push things, it was a deal with miscommunication with the day shift and night shift of the plant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

Dam power (Hydro Electrics) is safe, and only has one environmental impact, and that is on fish. All you need is a descent river.

One environmental impact? certainly doesn't. Desertification downstream, flooding upstream, extinction, deteriation of water quality etc.
FB

Desertification? Not really. Depending on the kind of dam, the water run can continue like it was before, and flooding upstream can be quite limited as well. Extinction? Could you provide an example, that didnt happen with any of the dams here.
Water quality was fine for the dams here as well.

[fireballs]

Sewage pipes, guttering, windows, flooring coverings, kitchen appliances, paint the list is almost endless but i'm not trying to have a dig at you individually it's just as a society we don't understand how reliant we are on plastics.

the Baiji... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiji

The 2007 IUCN Red List classifies the Baiji as a critically endangered (CR) species, and acknowledges the species is possibly extinct (PE).[1]

The Baiji population declined drastically in recent decades as China industrialized and made heavy use of the river for fishing, transportation, and hydroelectricity.

FB

[Zylstra]

Sewage pipes, guttering, windows, flooring coverings, kitchen appliances, paint the list is almost endless but i'm not trying to have a dig at you individually it's just as a society we don't understand how reliant we are on plastics.

Our sewage pipes are metal, we dont have gutters, the windows are wood and glass, the kitchen appliance... well, that does have plastic... our paint is probably lead outside, and our outer walls are made of cement and asbestos (yes, I live in a walking safety hazard.)
I know we do have quite a bit of latex pain on the house though, it was repainted in... 2004 I think (we werent living here at that time.)

Yes, I know your not picking at me as an individual, its a neutral tone discussion.

This home is probably more "green" than a modern one, since there was so much that didnt exist (plastics wise) when it was built in the 1900's, and so much of it hasnt been replaced.


the Baiji... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiji

The 2007 IUCN Red List classifies the Baiji as a critically endangered (CR) species, and acknowledges the species is possibly extinct (PE).[1]
The Baiji population declined drastically in recent decades as China industrialized and made heavy use of the river for fishing, transportation, and hydroelectricity.

FB
[/quote]
That, I did not know. I can see why larger fresh water creatures would be endangered, however, in certain places in the US, I think if we look at the eco system closely, we can determine how safe it is to put in a dam.

I live near this thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Coulee_Dam
(No, I'm not concerned about concealing my location... anyone who looks at my IP address can figure out I live in Central Washington)

"Installed generating capacity: 6809 MW" You wouldn't believe how much excess power we are producing. Theres four power houses, one entire power house that constantly runs doesn't even really dedicate power to anything.. Eventually, we will be selling our extremely cheap power to California.
Hydro Electrics are quite common here, especially on the Columbia.

When it was built, there were two effects:
1) Part of an Indian Reservation was taken over by water, and due to the hate towards Indians during the time it was built, it took a very long time for them to receive any sort of compensation for it.
2) Salmon populations decreased since no one had thought of a fish latter. Later on, a fish latter was built, and salmon restoration began.

[patio]

One benefit of the high price of oil is there is a greater incentive dollar wise to recycle plastics...
Their not as harmful as you think because of the fact they don't degrade that easily...
The lake i live near built an artificial reef from recycled plastics and the plant life and fish loved it...better than used tires for sure.

[typhoeus]

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle

[mroilfield]

Since Oil got brought up I just couldn't help but post a list of just a few things partially made from OIL.

Ammonia, Anesthetics, Antihistamines, Artificial limbs, Artificial Turf, Antiseptics, Aspirin, Auto Parts, Awnings, Balloons, Ballpoint pens, Bandages, Beach Umbrellas, Boats, Cameras, Candles, Car Battery Cases, Carpets, Caulking, Combs, Cortisones, Cosmetics, Crayons, Credit Cards, Curtains, Deodorants, Detergents, Dice, Disposable Diapers, Dolls, Dyes, Eye Glasses, Electrical Wiring Insulation, Faucet Washers, Fishing Rods, Fertilizer, Fishing Line, Fishing Lures, Food Preservatives, Food Packaging, Garden Hose, Glue, Hair Coloring, Hair Curlers, Hand Lotion, Hearing Aids, Heart Valves, Ink, Insect Spray, Insecticides, Linoleum, Lip Stick, Milk Jugs, Nail Polish, Oil Filters, Pantyhose, Perfume, Petroleum Jelly, Rubber Cement, Rubbing Alcohol, Shampoo, Shoes, Toothpaste, Trash Bags, Upholstery, Vitamin Capsules, Water Pipes, Clothing Ink, Parachutes, Telephones, Enamel, Epoxy paint, Car sound insulation, Cassettes, Motorcycle helmets, Pillows, Shower doors, Refrigerator linings, Electrical tape, Safety glass, Nylon rope, Ice buckets, Toilet seats, Denture adhesive, Loudspeakers, Movie film, Candles, Water pipes, Golf balls, Sunglasses, Soft contact lenses, Footballs, Paint brushes, Fan belts, Luggage, Toothbrushes, Ice cube trays, Plywood adhesive…

So when you see these people that say they are tottally green I can just about guarantee you they are full of it.

[fireballs]

...and of those things that are not made of oil they're almost guaranteed to have been processed using fossil fuels.

Metal as an example, mined, transported, refined and formed all using fossil fuels.

FB

[computeruler]

all this political stuff is too much for me

[mcxeb52!]

does anybody know anything about joe biden? If Palin were a democrat, that would be a nice git but she isn't/

[Aegis]

I think Joe Biden is a good running mate for Obama.  When the Democrats had their primaries, it was Biden, and a couple of the governors that really made the most sense of things.  I don't know why Biden didn't get farther in the primaries.  He can be an effective foreign relations vice president, without (I think) us having to worry about what he does behind the scenes.  (I don't want to write too much -- our current vice president might invite me to go hunting with him.   )

[mcxeb52!]

at least obama's got someone to ask when he's not sure what to do?

[Aegis]

at least obama's got someone to ask when he's not sure what to do?

Sure, just like every president has.