Bootable Floppy to Allow Booting From DVD?

[Compeek]

Hello,

Here's my situation. I have an old eMachines eMonster 600. I'm going to attempt to install Windows 7 RC on it, just for fun and everything. I put a DVD drive in it, but I am not able to get it to boot my Windows 7 disc. It can boot CDs fine, but it will not boot any bootable DVD I have. I know the Windows 7 disc works because I used it in another computer.

So it seems the PC simply doesn't want to boot from a DVD. Is there some sort of bootable floppy I can create that will let me run the setup program from the DVD to get the installation going? Or maybe there's a bootable CD that I can boot and then switch to the DVD?

Thanks!

[iamtonsoffun247]

What OS, if any, do you/have you had installed on the machine? If you there is another OS on the machine, boot into it and see if the drivers are up-to-date, and also see if the computer recognizes the disc. You may also have to go into your boot menu and make your cd/dvd drive the first thing to boot from.

[Compeek]

Thanks for the reply, but I think you're misunderstanding. The disc works for sure, and the DVD drive works for sure. I can boot from a CD just fine; however, when I use a DVD, it does not work. I have tried a bootable DVD+R and a bootable DVD-R. It simply appears to be a matter of computer not reading the DVD as bootable.

There is no OS on the computer right now, and the boot order is set up correctly. I just need to find a different way to boot that will let me then start the setup process on the DVD.

Thanks!

[JJ 3000]

Are you sure that the DVD drive is functioning properly?
Have you tried swapping out the DVD drive for another known good one?
Do you have another computer in which to test that DVD drive?

[Spoiler]

Try the DVD in another computer to see if it boots. You don't have to do the install just see if the DVD works as a boot disk.

[Compeek]

Look, I appreciate everybody's help--I really do--but you guys aren't listening. There are no problems with anything. I have tested the drive, the DVD, other DVDs, other computers with the drive, etc. My only problem is that my old PC doesn't seem to be able to boot from a DVD. So I'm just curious if anybody knows of a way to boot from a floppy and then be able to boot from the DVD.

I don't mean to come off as rude or anything, but believe me: everything works fine. My disc and my drive are not the problem.

[truenorth]

Compeek,Given your suspicion that the problem is the optical medium (DVD disc) not being recognized by the computer is it possible for you to change the data file  format of the original disc and then put it on a series of CD +- discs and try booting in sequence from those. By the way i am assuming that the aspect of the DVD not being recognized is unique to the Win 7 disc and that you are able to use the DVD aspect with other DVD data. truenorth

[Dias de verano]

CD +- discs

What are they?

[Dias de verano]

So I'm just curious if anybody knows of a way to boot from a floppy and then be able to boot from the DVD.

Doesn't make sense. Once you have booted from a floppy, you have booted. If the Windows 7 disk contains an MS-DOS executable installer program then you could use a DOS floppy with CD support and see if you can install that way.
 

[Compeek]

truenorth, I have a Slackware DVD as well that will boot in other computers, but not this one. It is on a different brand of DVD. So I believe the only problem lies with the PC itself. I used the same DVD drive to boot these DVDs in another computer, so the drive is not the problem.

Dias de verano, by CD +- discs, I would assume he means CD+Rs and CD-Rs. Anyway, I tried using a DOS bootable floppy, and I got the drive to show up, but the only file it found on the disc was a Readme.txt file. Is there some floppy I could get that would make it compatible with the Win 7 disc so I could see everything and try to run the setup.exe file in the command prompt?

Thanks for the help guys.

[Dias de verano]

Dias de verano, by CD +- discs, I would assume he means CD+Rs and CD-Rs.

No such animal. Only DVDs have plus and minus types. There are CD-R and CD-RW types of recordable CD.

Is there some floppy I could get that would make it compatible with the Win 7 disc so I could see everything and try to run the setup.exe file in the command prompt?

Doubtful. Sounds like a bad burn.

[truenorth]

Should have said "CD-R".That's what happens when you are thinking "DVDs"  and advise on Cd's.However back to the real issue --it does seem most likely that it is somehow a compatibility with the software associated with the computer that you are trying to install the Win 7 O/S on. I wish i could give you the answer that would work.It may just be that the computer you are trying to use is too old in technology to relate to what you want it to do. As this is Microsoft's latest O/S it's backward compatibility may be limited to relatively recent computers.For instance is this machine even capable of the minimum RAM requirements of that O/S? Playing with the O/s is a great idea but perhaps in order to derive the maximum benefits from the experience you may need to install it on a more current machine. As an example i recently acquired a Compaq Presario CM2010 laptop for the sole purpose of WIFI portability. It does that function well but now that i have it i am trying to get it to do other things and the max RAM potential of it is severely curtailing my efforts. I hope that you can overcome your dilemma with your computer and the win 7 but it is beyond my pay grade as to how you can achieve it. goodluck,truenorth

[Rob Pomeroy]

Is this a SATA DVD drive by any chance?  Your BIOS may have an option to "downgrade" the SATA mode a little.  Vague I know, but I've only come across this once, and it was a while ago on an older Fuji machine.

[Compeek]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Dias, thanks for pointing out that there is no such thing as a CD+R. I guess I'm so used to the deal with DVD+Rs and DVD-Rs that I forgot.

Anyway, it is not a bad burn. Like I said, it works in other computers. There is nothing faulty about the disc or the drive.

truenorth, you're probably right. There's a good chance the technology is just too old and I'm not going to get it to work. I beleve it has 768MB of RAM, but it's not with me at the moment so I can't verify that. It should at least run 7, but probably not well. I've installed 7 on my modern computers, but I just thought it'd be interesting to try it on this thing.

Rob, it is an IDE drive. I have a USB enclosure for it, but the BIOS doesn't seem to support booting from USB either.

Oh well. It was worth a shot. Thanks for the help, everyone.

[Rob Pomeroy]

We've not exhausted all possibilities yet. 

It's not the 64-bit version of 7 is it?

When it only found a Readme.txt, what did that file contain?

Have you tried booting from a different DVD drive?

Are you SURE you want Win7 on this machine?! 

[Compeek]

It's not the 64-bit version of 7 is it?

Nope. I have both, but I'm definitely using the 32-bit one.

When it only found a Readme.txt, what did that file contain?

Hm. Good question. I didn't even look. I won't have the computer with me for a couple more days, but I'll post the contents then.

Have you tried booting from a different DVD drive?

I tried this with the Beta (this is the RC) and at that time I believe I did. When I'm back with the computer I'll take the DVD drive out of my regular desktop and try that. Although now that I think about it, I don't think that's going to work because it's SATA and even though I have a SATA enclosure, this PC won't boot from USB. Hm. I probably have another IDE one somewhere...

Are you SURE you want Win7 on this machine?! 

Hahaha. Yes, I do.

[patio]

I suspect the drive itself...

[truenorth]

Compeek, I have been giving this question more thought and have a new idea.Based on the fact that the objective is to get Win 7 on this particular computer so as to be able to "play " with it; the manner of getting it there is secondary. So let's go a different installation route.Somethings would need to be changed that exist currently.Such as you would HAVE TO install an O/S on your drive "C". Next using another computer which does permitt the transfer of the Win 7 using a fresh HDD installed as a slave (or even a SATA) install the win 7 on it in the compatible file format (probably FAT 32 as opposed to NTSF) to enable use when the HDD is removed and installed as a slave on the one you cannot get it on currently. Now i do suspect there may be issues even with this route. Is win 7 available in FAT 32 or is it only in NTSF? I feel certain that an external HDD could not be used for this as Microsoft more than likely will not allow Win 7 to be installed on an external.I still am concerned with the ultimate viability and performance of the win 7 on this computer given the 768MB of available ram (unless it can be substantially boosted). As is commonly known many computers running Vista were sold with only 1 GB of ram whereas the general concensus is that 2 GB is needed. Given Microsoft's tendency to raise the ram required for newer O/S i would suspect that Win 7 is even more demanding than Vista in that area. Just guessing there though as i have no experience with win 7.All this is based on Patio's comment not being a factor.Others may have more to say regarding this alternative method. truenorth

[Compeek]

This page has Win 7 minimum (recommended?) requirements for reference. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/installation-instructions.aspx

truenorth, you are right that the way of installation doesn't matter for me to try it out on the PC, but yeah, I don't think Windows will work installing on another computer and moving the drive.

I'll be back with the PC shortly, and I'll post an update if I figure out anything. If I can find another drive, I'll try it out.

[truenorth]

Compeek, I was successfull quite sometime back when i had a Sony Viao that had a corrupted XP Home O/S that would not allow me to access anything on the computer. Not BIOS. Not Safe Mode--nothing. I installed Win 98 SE on an other HDD (via another computer) brought it over to the Sony.Was able to access the computer then. Then without removing the primary HDD was able to install XP Pro corporate on it and in fact this is the computer i am using at the moment to do this post. I have been able to continuously use this Sony without serious problems ever since. So that is why i have made the suggestion i did.truenorth

[Compeek]

All right, I'm back home with the PC now, and I tried another DVD drive with the same lack of success. This other DVD drive would not boot the Windows 7 disc or the Slackware disc either. So I'm pretty that the PC itself is the problem, not the DVD drive. When I get a chance, I'm going to try truenorth's suggestion of installing with another computer and moving the drive. Let's hope it works!

[Dias de verano]

I'm going to try truenorth's suggestion of installing with another computer and moving the drive. Let's hope it works!

Unless the other PC is more or less identical hardware-wise, installing Windows this way will practically always fail. The last version of Windows with which you could do this was 3.x.

[Compeek]

Yeah, we know. But considering the fact that installing from a disc isn't going to work, it's at least worth trying. It's not like I have anything to lose.

[Rob Pomeroy]

Did you get anywhere trying an intermediate boot loader like Smart BootManager?

[patio]

I suspect the drive itself...

[Compeek]

patio, believe me, the drive is fine. I use this drive all the time in an enclosure for DVD stuff, and it works fine. I've tried another drive with the exact same results trying to boot 7 in this PC.

[Rob Pomeroy]

I suspect a BIOS issue...

[Compeek]

I'm actually running a modified BIOS I found somewhere because at one point I put in a different PIII CPU that wouldn't work right with the original BIOS.

I tried Smart BootManager with no success. Every time I tried to boot from the DVD drive is just gave me some disc error. I then found PLoP, which looked promising and even let me boot from USB though the BIOS doesn't support it, but no dice. I tried both drives with the USB enclosure and both just plugged into the motherboard. I also tried a number of bootable DVDs. Every time I tried to boot from the drive, it would act like it was going to do something and then just sit there forever without success.

I'm still going to attempt to transfer the hard drive after installing in another computer, but I'm thinking that's going to cause too many problems. We'll see.

[patio]

I know this has already been asked probably but what bootable CD's have you tried ? ?
Is there a way to revert the BIOS flash ? ?

[Compeek]

For bootable DVDs, I've tried Windows 7 RC (DVD-R), Windows 7 Beta (DVD+R), and Slackware 12.0 (DVD+RW). All bootable CDs work fine.

I'm sure I could revert the BIOS, but I'd rather not. I don't remember how I did it, and I don't feel like putting the original processor back in just to try this. It was just for fun in the first, and there comes a point when something is not worth the effort anymore.

[patio]

You need to try a factory produced bootable CD to eliminate some of the possibilities here...

[Compeek]

patio, that doesn't make any sense. I don't need to try a factory produced disc. I've already tried three discs that I know work. But, just to suite you, I tried an official Vista Ultimate disc that I have. It doesn't work. Now can we please accept that it won't boot DVDs?

[BC_Programmer]

interesting. my AMD K6-2 from 98 can boot just fine to DVD's, burnt or otherwise.

I assume you can read the DVD's after booting?

XP Pro corporate

hate to go off on a tangent, but people insist this "edition" exists- and yet it doesn't! the only quote I can find on the MS site about it is this, on the MSDN social:

Please be advised that Microsoft does not have, or ever distributed, a version of Windows XP called "XP Corporate edition".  You obviously have a non-genuine version.

as well as

Fred Nava [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: What is the difference between Windows XP Professional Edition and Corporate Edition?
A: Hi Eric, I've never heard of Windows XP Corporate Edition. It might be a simple branding device for Volume Licensing but the only actual client SKUs for Windows XP were Windows XP Starter Edition, Windows XP Home Edition, and Windows XP Professional Edition.

I'm not ripping on you, of course- but the only conclusion would be that the "corporate" edition is really in the same domain as the "black" edition or the "super awesome gamo" edition. (IE, some 13 year old runs n-lite and removes a few things and adds his wallpaper, and BOOM! it's the mega awesomo edition!)


*ahem*

sorry about that.
Anyway- my main query would be- can you read the DVDs after booting?


Also- to answer your query there is no way to Boot a DVD after booting from something else.

However if you boot a floppy with drivers for your DVD drive you can get access to the setup program. I haven't a clie what it will do, though.

[truenorth]

Ok for those of you that find it necessary to deviate from the Op's request for actual assistance and desire to split hairs. There is no difference between the xp pro and the "corporate' other than the limitations of "legitimate " use. And no it does not mean that it is "illegal" as implied. Yes it is a licencing parameter. Now can we get back to trying to help Compeek as some of us are trying to do. For God's sake grow up. truenorth

[patio]

Now can we please accept that it won't boot DVDs?

No.
My brain won't let me accept that...

[Compeek]

BC_Programmer, who said XP Pro corporate anyway? :\

At this point, I don't know if I can read DVDs after booting. I've only got FreeBSD or something installed on it right now from a past experiment, and I'm not good enough with the command line in *nix systems to go figure out how to read the disc. Maybe I'll install Ubuntu or something just to see if I can read DVDs...

I'll report back when I do so.

[BC_Programmer]

BC_Programmer, who said XP Pro corporate anyway? :\

weird. I know I Copy-pasted from this thread. Or maybe it was another thread. Oh well.

Maybe I'll install Ubuntu or something just to see if I can read DVDs...

Sounds like a good plan.

WE've already established that the boot order is properly set in the BIOS, right?

[Compeek]

Yeah, that's definitely established. At the boot screen, it says something like "Checking for boot record on CD-ROM..." and that it says "None found" or something like that. It's definitely trying to boot from the DVD drive and all of that. And it boots fine with CDs, just not DVDs.

Tomorrow when I'm up and not tired I'll install Ubuntu and see what I can figure out.

[street1 (RIP)]

NTFS......http://www.ntfs.com/boot-disk.htm

[Compeek]

No luck with that either.

I suppose I'll try once more with a SATA drive in a USB enclosure. I'll let you all know what happens.

[truenorth]

Compeek, While i continue to wish you the best of luck in your quest i want to remind you of the likelyhood of a failure if you try the process with an external HDD. I see no mention yet as to whether you have tried my suggestion of an second internal/transfer HDD. While it may not be successful for a variety of reasons --some of which have been mentioned by myself and others. It was not totally ruled out as a possibility of success. I assume you must be getting near the "i give up" stage if i were in your shoes i would want to give that route a try before quitting the effort. If i am not mistaken because win 7 is still in beta test it probably has no limitations as would an authentic O/S of say XP insofar as how many computers it can be put on. Which of course could be a problem with a "normal legit" O/S.truenorth

[Compeek]

Truenorth, I should have specified that I meant an external SATA DVD drive. Just in case both drives are somehow faulty.

And you are correct, I haven't yet attempted to transfer the drive. I haven't ruled that out yet; I'll get to it. I'm just busy with some website design for a while and have just been messing with the PC when I need a break.

I haven't quit yet.

[patio]

I don't think you are creating bootable CD's properly since 4 of them have failed to boot properly...which is why i suggested a manuf. bootable CD way back when.

[Compeek]

patio, I don't think you know enough details. Believe me, these discs, including the official Vista one, all work in other computers.

[jake_friz]

http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager.html

I have not tried this yet, but it looks promissing. It claims "CD/DVD boot without BIOS support" and can be installed on a floppy.

[Geek-9pm]

I came in late. Did he consult the machines site?
And yes, there is a way to do it. I think.

[Geek-9pm]

Well, to save time, ere it is:

Upgrade from Windows® XP to Windows® 7

The Upgrade option is not available in Windows 7 Setup when installing Windows 7 on a computer running Windows XP. However, you can use Windows Easy Transfer to migrate files and settings from Windows XP to Windows 7 on the same computer. To do this, you must first copy files to removable media, such as an external hard drive or USB flash drive, or to a network share. Next, you will install Windows 7 and then migrate your files back from the removable media onto your computer. When you are finished, you must install your software programs again, but your files and settings will have been copied from Windows XP.
Copy files using Windows Easy Transfer

   1. Insert the Windows 7 DVD while running Windows XP. If the Windows 7 installation window opens automatically, close it.
   2. Open Windows Explorer by right-clicking the Start menu, and then clicking Explore.
   3. Browse to the DVD drive on your computer and click migsetup.exe in the Support\Migwiz directory.

      The Windows Easy Transfer window opens.
   4. Click Next.
   5. Select An external hard disk or USB flash drive.
   6. Click This is my old computer. Windows Easy Transfer scans the computer.
   7. Click Next. You can also determine which files should be migrated by selecting only the user profiles you want to transfer, or by clicking Customize.
   8. Enter a password to protect your Easy Transfer file, or leave the box blank, and then click Save.
   9. Browse to the external location on the network or to the removable media where you want to save your Easy Transfer file, and then click Save.
  10. Click Next. Windows Easy Transfer displays the file name and location of the Easy Transfer file you just created.

Use the Windows 7 DVD to upgrade

   1. Start Windows 7 Setup by browsing to the root folder of the DVD in Windows Explorer, and then double clicking setup.exe.
   2. Click Go online to get the latest updates (recommended) to retrieve any important updates for Windows 7. This step is optional. If you choose not to check for updates during Setup, click Do not get the latest updates.
   3. Read and accept the Microsoft Software License Terms. Click I accept the License Terms (required to use Windows), and then click Next. If you click I decline (cancel installation), Windows 7 Setup will exit.
   4. Click Custom to perform an upgrade to your existing Windows installation.

      Note: When you perform a custom installation of Windows 7, files that were used in the earlier version of Windows are stored in a Windows.old folder. The folders that are stored in the Windows.old folder contain some files that you used in the earlier version of Windows. The type of files that are stored depends on your computer. We recommend that you always back up any important files before you install a new operating system.
   5. Select the partition where you would like to install Windows. To move your existing Windows installation into a Windows.old folder and replace the operating system with Windows 7, select the partition where your current Windows installation is located.
   6. Click Next and then click OK.

      Windows 7 Setup will proceed without further interaction.

Copy files to the destination computer

   1. If you saved your files and settings in an Easy Transfer file on removable media such as a UFD rather than on a network share, insert the removable media into the computer.
   2. Click Start, click All Programs, click Accessories, click System Tools, and then click Windows Easy Transfer.

      The Windows Easy Transfer window opens.
   3. Click Next.
   4. Click An external hard disk or USB flash drive.
   5. Click This is my new computer.
   6. Click Yes, open the file.
   7. Browse to the location where the Easy Transfer file was saved. Click the file name, and then click Open.
   8. Click Transfer to transfer all files and settings. You can also determine which files should be migrated by selecting only the user profiles you want to transfer, or by clicking Customize.
   9. Click Close after Windows Easy Transfer has completed moving your files.

Delete Windows.old directory

To reclaim the disk space, you can delete the Windows.old directory using the Disk Cleanup system tool by following these steps:

   1. Open Disk Cleanup. Click Start, click All Programs, click Accessories, click System Tools, and then click Disk Cleanup.
   2. If prompted, select the drive where you just installed Windows 7, and then click OK.
   3. Click Clean up system files.

      Previous installations of Windows are scanned.
   4. If prompted, select the drive where you just installed Windows 7, and then click OK.
   5. Select Previous Windows installation(s) and any other categories of files you want to delete.
   6. Click OK and then click Delete Files.

Please visit http://www.windows7.com/ for additional information about Windows® 7 and its new features, benefits and more.

The above is the method recommended by eMachines.
This also applies to some other rfactory PCs  that refuse to boot up some CDs and DVDs. He needs to have XP  installed first.

[Compeek]

Geek-9pm, thanks for the info! It hadn't occurred to me to install XP first and then upgrade to 7. I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle since this was just for something to do in the first place and I don't really need 7 on it, but I'll keep it in mind.

[Geek-9pm]

You can install XP in just 4 to 6 GB and leave the rest for Windows 7.

[mrhozer]

Your talking about the same computer as the one listed here:
http://www.dealtime.com/xPF-E-Machines-eMonster-600-EMONSTER600

64 mb of ram, 600mhz P3, 20Gb HDD? and you are trying to install windows 7 on it??? Yikes!

Thats well below minimum requirements:
http://windows.microsoft.com/systemrequirements

but it's worth a shot, so first off how did you eliminate all the idiot factors (we all do it from time to time) are you sure your booting through a DVD Rom and not a CD Rom drive? they are often not labeled, I've made that mistake before. And it sounds like you have thoroughly tested the disks themselves.

I think you have a bigger problem, flashing the BIOS with a custom BIOS could have messed something up, or there might be an issue with an older motherboard being able to boot from a DVD drive or even a CD drive, since this computer is a dinosaur it came with windows 98 which required you to boot from a floppy first and then insert the Win 98 CD if I remember right.

My guess is that it's not a windows 7 issue since you would have to load windows setup to get any hardware errors. And as far as minimum requirements go... I recently successfully installed win 7 on a P4 w/756mb of ram, slightly below the 1GB min.

It's probably the motherboard or BIOS if the DVD drive and Hard Drive are ok. Go in your BIOS and see if there is an option to boot from USB, make sure it's enabled and select "Removable Device" as your primary boot device, Then you are able to boot off a USB Hard Drive... Just place a Win 7 Image File in the root folder of the USB Hard Drive and cross your fingers.

If that doesn't work, I would call it quites. The computer is just too old for the goodness of Win 7, time to upgrade if your machine is more than 10 years old.

[BC_Programmer]

64 mb of ram, 600mhz P3, 20Gb HDD

Windows 7 will neither install or run usably on this system.

[Gordon in OZ]

I had same problem with an older machine that has no ability to boot from SATA DVD- Just boot the machine using any version of windows and put the dvd in and it will let you run setup this is also a good way of fixing a corrupt windows 7 install without having to reinstll everything - just do as above and select upgrade optoin in the setup screen