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Author Topic: Building a computer (1st time)  (Read 2954 times)

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notme

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    Building a computer (1st time)
    « on: August 11, 2009, 03:16:04 AM »
    I was going to try building a computer for the first time and was wondering if these components where ok and all compatible. I've chosen the compents completely from other user reviews (looking at the most popular parts) so have no idea if they don't fit together. This computer will be used for different things including a bit of gaming.

    How long will it take to build roughly? I guess it will take a few days to read up on building first.

    Motherboard - 100 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/145751
    CPU - 130 or 200 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/148900 or http://www.ebuyer.com/product/151477
    RAM - 50 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/146049
    Graphics Card - 100 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/160748
    Hard Drive - 54 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/150256
    DVD drive - 15 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/101321
    Decent power supply - 50 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/124927
    Computer Case - 50 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/143854
    Wireless card - 16 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/103208

    =565 or 635 (£) (Don't want to go over £750 ideally) + OS

    The CPU I'm not too sure about as I've looked at the stats and they look identical but theres a £70 price difference. I'm also not too sure about the video card as I remember last time my video card costing about £300 if I would have bought it separately but this time it costs only £100, is this videocard ok? Also I heard you can link 2 videocards together, is this worth doing?

    Also I'm not too sure on the OS, I want a windows OS so I can play games, I was looking at windows 7 as this is the newest and have heard it is ok and better than vista (I'm on XP home atm). What's the main differences between the Windows 7 different types, is ultimate or prof. worth the extra £100? Is windows 7 even the way to go? Will most recent games and applications run on Windows 7 that run on Vista/XP?

    Also can somebody reccomend a computer building guide there seems to be thousands on the web.

    EDIT: Forgot wireless card, I just realised Windows 7 isn't released until October 22nd - what a pain should I get Vista then according to the microsoft website I will get a free upgrade, source: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/buy/offers/upgrade.aspx.
    « Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 03:58:35 AM by notme »

    Kurtiskain



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    Re: Building a computer (1st time)
    « Reply #1 on: August 11, 2009, 05:58:22 AM »
    You will be fine with all those components except for the core i7 processor you have linked there. That motherboard is a socket 775, the Core i7 needs a socket 1366.

    As for windows 7...I ran both the BETA and RC and I love it  :)

    However the difference between Ultimate and prof from the home versions *note: this is last time i checked* Is mostly just the price. Ultimate and enterprise are identical it would seem. prof only lacks these options:
    AppLocker    
    BitLocker Drive Encryption
    BranchCache Distributed Cache    
    DirectAccess
    Subsystem for Unix-based Applications    
    Multilingual User Interface Pack    
    Virtual Hard Disk Mounting/Booting

    And Home Premium lacks a few more, non-essential items that home users would rarely even need/want, these are:
    Backup and Restore Center[25]    Manual to local HDD or DVD only
    Encrypting File System    
    Location Aware Printing    
    Remote Desktop Host    
    Presentation Mode
    Windows Server domain joining    
    Windows Virtual PC[26] + Windows XP Mode[27]    Virtual PC only    
    AppLocker    
    BitLocker Drive Encryption    
    BranchCache Distributed Cache    
    DirectAccess    
    Subsystem for Unix-based Applications    
    Multilingual User Interface Pack    
    Virtual Hard Disk Mounting/Booting

    It may be worth just getting home premium as it still comes with aero, Windows media center and touch screen controls (ooohhh)

    If you want to read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions

    When it comes to application compatibility, windows 7 is very good at it, and it will also accept 99% of windows xp AND vista drivers!

    Hope this helps some :)

    patio

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    Re: Building a computer (1st time)
    « Reply #2 on: August 11, 2009, 07:35:11 AM »
    I'd invest a little more in the PSU...
    " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

    jim.mar



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    Re: Building a computer (1st time)
    « Reply #3 on: August 11, 2009, 09:01:44 AM »
    KURTISKAIN   
    You said, "When it comes to application compatibility, windows 7 is very good at it, and it will also accept 99% of windows xp AND vista drivers!" 
    Does that mean that with windows 7 that I can again use some of the old applications that i used and loved with 98 and XP but could not use with Vista??
    You are much appreciated..     Thank you ,

    Kurtiskain



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    Re: Building a computer (1st time)
    « Reply #4 on: August 11, 2009, 08:32:15 PM »
    This is true, The prof and ultimate versions of Win 7 also come with full windows XP compatibility, to run any windows XP applications natively, as long as the processor supports Intel Visualization technology, which I believe the one you are looking at buying does. Ill check for you and post back ok?

    Kurtiskain



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    Re: Building a computer (1st time)
    « Reply #5 on: August 11, 2009, 08:38:59 PM »
    Yes, that processor you listed has full virtualization technology, so you will be able to have full XP compatibility if you were to get Win7 Pro or Ultimate. Home Professional only has a virtual PC option, which will be slower.

    All in total, Windows 7 is brilliant.

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Building a computer (1st time)
    « Reply #6 on: August 11, 2009, 10:39:29 PM »
    windows 7 can't use Windows XP drivers, only run windows XP applications.

    You simply cannot install XP drivers into Windows 7 any more then you can install Windows 98 Drivers into XP or XP drivers into Vista.

    The architecture differences contribute to this. Windows 95 could use Windows 3.1 drivers for devices but frankly it impacted performance immensely. Windows 98 could use windows 95 drivers no problem- same with ME. But 95,98, and ME all used the same basic architecture (with 98 and ME also supporting the WDM). XP, being the next consumer-oriented OS, was based on the NT core which had NEVER been compatible kernel-wise with Windows 9x or 3.1 drivers. (of course with windows 2000 it supported the WDM as well so for certain devices windows 2000 and XP could use "windows 9x" drivers, but really the WDM model isn't for a specific platform by design).

    Windows Vista Brought sweeping changes in both the Kernel and the User interface code, with huge portions of core code being re-oriented around the desktop window manager, (namely, GDI being essentially Deprecated by both GDI+ and Direct3d). Not to mention the changes around administrator rights and UAC. because of this any non-trivial XP driver will have problems with Vista. Cameras, Mass storage devices, and other things were mostly OK- but on the other hand the same devices that had problem free drivers on the disc had suitable drivers built into the OS to begin with.


    "XP mode" is basically just a addition to the already existent compatibility options present with executables, since windows 3.1 (I speak not just of the user-changable compatibility options dialog, but also the seemingly invisible application compatibility database (apphacks) built right into the OS that changes core behavior right down to the way memory is allocated, all in the name of fixing programs that weren't written properly to begin with. Anyway- this "database" also has entries for changing the DLLs that are dynamically linked to the program.

    How does that work? You ask? Well, Take the XP "Luna" theme. The entire interface was revamped.

    However- MS was very dilligent. They knew from experience that people don't follow the rules. For example, instead of sending a button the WM_COLOR message to retrieve the Background colour- why not just use GetPixel on the button DC?

    This silly method works fine with windows 3.1, windows 95,98... etc. But what about XP? Bam- the colour returned is some part of the gradient.

    It was because MS knew that this sort of thing ran rampant that it decided that unless the program explicitly said otherwise- the executable loader would link the program to the older version of "comctl32.dll". The newer version contained the logic that used uxtheme.dll to draw the various theme elements- the older version was dumb as a doornail and drew everything the same way as windows 2000.

    Thankfully, by using a manifest file (a special XML file) or embedding it into the executable resources, programs can be made to draw using XP styles. This worked well, because programmers too lazy to learn how to call functions properly in general were too lazy to wonder why their programs looked 5 years old; whereas more diligent programmers who read documentation would know about this new feature since it was discussed in a number of technical articles with the MSDN.

    In the case of Windows 7 (if I may go back on-topic :P) I would guess that one of the main "hacks" being performed is to link to the windows XP version of a number of libraries, one of which would be uxtheme.dll, giving it the luna look (yippee(?)). Although it may be that this functionality is provided by virtual PC and it's integration with windows itself to provide a consistent UI and might not even have anything at all to do with compatibility settings (aside from the "run in XP virtual machine") type of setting for the program.


    In either case- the drivers, installed via this "XP mode" will only be available to programs that run in "XP mode", since it is within this rumoured virtual machine that they exist. In this manner it would be impossible to install, say, an older Sound card that for one reason or another didn't have Proper windows 7 compatible drivers. you could install the XP drivers via the virtual machine method, but the sound card would likely be invisible to any program that isn't run in compatibility mode.
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    notme

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      Re: Building a computer (1st time)
      « Reply #7 on: August 12, 2009, 02:25:38 PM »
      This graphics card supports two monitors - correct? Guessing that what "Dual DVI HDTV" means. Also do you think that graphics card is good enough - £100 seems quite reasonable maybe too reasonable? Also will I need to buy any extra fans? - I'm guessing the case will have fans a long with the components themselves.

      Thanks for all the help so far.

      I was talking about RAM today (I have exciting conversations) and they said something about single line memory or something and double line memory or something and that if you use double line memory you sometimes can't use all the memory slots in a computer. What exactly were they talking about?

      patio

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      Re: Building a computer (1st time)
      « Reply #8 on: August 12, 2009, 07:09:17 PM »
      I'd invest a little more in the PSU...
      " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

      Kurtiskain



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      Re: Building a computer (1st time)
      « Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 03:21:45 AM »
      So BC, you are saying that my current HTPC, that runs windows 7 RC AND the BETA, that has an older motherboard with an old AMD Sempron processor (no virtualization), onboard sound that never even had vista drivers, cannot run the native windows 7 apps with the XP driver installed for the sound card? I just force installed it through device manager and it worked just fine.

      I also ran the XP driver for the onboard gfx just fine, It still ran Media center at full accelleration, granted Aero didn't work, it wouldn't have anyway as it was onboard with 64mb of useable RAM.

      notme

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        Re: Building a computer (1st time)
        « Reply #10 on: August 13, 2009, 06:12:26 AM »
        I'd invest a little more in the PSU...

        http://www.ebuyer.com/product/135514

        That look better? Or even better than that?

        patio

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        Re: Building a computer (1st time)
        « Reply #11 on: August 13, 2009, 06:58:58 AM »
        Yep.
        The Corsair is definitely a better Brand than the first one...
        " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

        BC_Programmer


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        Re: Building a computer (1st time)
        « Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 10:35:57 AM »
        Kurtiskain- force installing Windows XP drivers has nothing to do with compatibility mode.
        I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.