Guide me in creating two installations of windows on different drives.

[Ivy]

I want to Create  two installations of windows on different drives on the same computer to reduce load on my computer, I have the complete CS3 installed on this computer along with my projects and college work, So it makes the computer slow at times, Can you please guide me with this and tell me what I should do and what I should not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[smeezekitty]

two drivers or partitions?
do you have a windows xp install disk? if so has it ever been used? if it has
you need to buy a new copy or it would be illegal
i hope i made myself clear
please dont not awnser my questions because you dont like me
p.s. i stared at your avater a long time before postng this

[Ivy]

two drivers or partitions?

Two Drives for now.

Is it legal to install windows on two drives? If not then will I have to buy a new one? I don't know much about all this,everyone please share as much information as you can.

Also please I don't want to do anything that is not legal.

Thank you

[smeezekitty]

i am going to assume the disk you installing to is empty
it is legal to install windows on two drives
i am just asking have use used this disk before?
are you installing on a ATA or IDE harddrive?
if its IDE proceed otherwise do not follow these instructions and someone else will help
you install the ATA driver
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
set the drive you want to install windows as master
once you do that insert the windows disk
and turn the computer on
you should see a windows setup screen
follow any prompts to install xp (i can be definitive because it can vary by disk and servicepacks)
you should see it loading drivers at the bottom it may take a while
once you get to the partition manager press C
if it asks what type of partition to create i recommend NTFS
just follow the prompts and ask if you need help
i know because i have done it 4 times

[JJ 3000]

I guess you could do that. But why would you want to? It's the exact same version that you want to put on both drives right?
Why don't you just make the other drive a storage drive? You know, you can install programs on the other drive even though it doesn't have an operating system on it.

If you want your other hard drive to be fast and just use it for simple tasks you could always install a linux distro on it.

[smeezekitty]

I guess you could do that. But why would you want to? It's the exact same version that you want to put on both drives right?
Why don't you just make the other drive a storage drive? You know, you can install programs on the other drive even though it doesn't have an operating system on it.

If you want your other hard drive to be fast and just use it for simple tasks you could always install a linux distro on it.

good point
in this case i dont question why
i just try my best
especally for out lovable, trustable Ivy

[Ivy]

JJ 3000,

I guess you could do that. But why would you want to? It's the exact same version that you want to put on both drives right?

Cause there's a lot of load on this comp.
Yes, it's the exact same version that I want to put on both drives , if it's legal.
Actually the thing is that yesterday in class I was telling a friend that my computer is getting too slow, so he suggested to create  two installations of windows on different drives on the same computer, but I didn't want to do that before asking you guys.
I don't know much about this, so just tell me whats best to do.

[smeezekitty]

you could move your data to the other drive
and format and reinstall the main drive
that will save disk space and you keep your data and get  the speed back

[JJ 3000]

You can do it. 1 liscence for 1 machine is the rule.

Have you done disk cleanup and defrag lately?

The easiest way to speed your computer up would be to add more RAM.

[Ivy]

You can do it. 1 liscence for 1 machine is the rule.

That's exactly what my friend had said

Have you done disk cleanup and defrag lately?

Nope, but I recently reformatted my comp.

You know, you can install programs on the other drive even though it doesn't have an operating system on it.

If that's a better Idea than I can do that.


Actually, I just want to good Idea to reduce load on my computer, while keeping all the software and all on the computer.

[smeezekitty]

That's exactly what my friend had said
Nope, but I recently reformatted my comp.
If that's a better Idea than I can do that.


Actually, I just want to good Idea to reduce load on my computer, while keeping all the software and all on the computer.

move all the programs to the new drive
then run a defrag
trust me it will help

[JJ 3000]

If that's a better Idea than I can do that.

Yes it is better to do it that way.

Whenever I build a new computer for anyone the last thing I do before giving it to them is a disk cleanup and defrag. Loading all of your software will cause a fair amount of fragmentation. So, even though you have just done a clean install, you should still do a defrag.  

Also, If you just done a clean install, you should make an image of the drive so that you can restore it if you need to.

You may want to start over and install photoshop and your other programs on the storage drive.
If you need help with that post back.

[Ivy]

You may want to start over and install photoshop and your other programs on the storage drive.
If you need help with that post back.

Yes, I would like to do that.
We can go step by step and I will keep informing you about how it's going, I might have to leave but I will complete all the procedure and will come back and let you know.

Thank you so much for helping

[JJ 3000]

You know how to use Disk Management to format your storage drive, right?

[JJ 3000]

Wait! While the computer may be faster without that program on the main hard drive, it will take longer to access the the data on the the storage drive, than if it was on the C drive.

[squall_01]

Yes, I would like to do that.
We can go step by step and I will keep informing you about how it's going, I might have to leave but I will complete all the procedure and will come back and let you know.

Thank you so much for helping

Depending what is showing up on the left of the clock would do that too. 

[Ivy]

You know how to use Disk Management to format your storage drive, right?

Not very well.

Wait! While the computer may be faster without that program on the main hard drive, it will take longer to access the the data on the the storage drive, than if it was on the C drive.

So now what shall we do?

[smeezekitty]

So now what shall we do?

JJ 3000 statement was false
its no faster to access the main drive vs the other drive
so in a simplfyed way heres what you do
format the second drive
copy all dificult to replace data to it
uninstall all programs from the first drive
install the programs on the second drive
that should fix it unless you want to reinstall windows on the first drive

[patio]

JJ 3000 statement was false

This would make you wrong again.

Look it up.

[smeezekitty]

still the diffrence is hardly at all
do you know what the RPM of the new and old drive is?

[BC_Programmer]

still the diffrence is hardly at all
do you know what the RPM of the new and old drive is?

Off-Topic and beside the point.


Personally, I find the whole thing regarding "windows rot" both disturbing and patently false, it's merely a matter of not keeping up with maintenance on the machine, such as Disk Checks, and making sure the various programs are getting along.

Perhaps, you can give us a HJT log? It might be possible that your computer just has many background applications running, or maybe even malware.

Also, unless you always have them open Photoshop or any other program is unlikely to reduce the speed of your PC.

[squall_01]

thats how I feel myself

[2x3i5x]

Would it do any good to have two drives, one windows operating system and have all programs installed to the secondary drive except for all the main programs installed to the main drive (which typically is the C drive)?

Although secondary drive reading may be slower, but those are just stuff you want, but are less commonly used so it wouldn't matter?

[patio]

No.

[Ivy]

Personally, I find the whole thing regarding "windows rot" both disturbing and patently false, it's merely a matter of not keeping up with maintenance on the machine, such as Disk Checks, and making sure the various programs are getting along.

What? What's false? I'm sorry I don't get you!

Perhaps, you can give us a HJT log? It might be possible that your computer just has many background applications running, or maybe even malware.

My computer is clean and has been checked by Evil some days back.

Also, unless you always have them open Photoshop or any other program is unlikely to reduce the speed of your PC.

No not just photoshop, I usually have Photoshop, illustrator, Corel Draw, Premiere, Flash....and quiet a lot of other softwares open together for each project .

[ioovius]

so you pretty much just need more ram.

[JJ 3000]

Hey Ivy! It is true that it will take longer to access the data on the storage drive. But once the program is loaded into RAM it will run at the same speed as if was on your main C drive. The only thing that will be slower is the time it will take load up when you click on the desktop shortcut. It could take 20-30 seconds longer to load, depending on how much RAM you have.

I still think it would be better to format the second drive and leave it as just a storage drive. Then you can install your programs and put your pics, music, videos etc on it. Also, you will be able to move your virtual memory or "swap file" to the other drive which will give you a small boost in speed.

I assume that you already have the other drive installed. If you don't, then post back and I will walk you through the process. 

If there is any data on your secondary drive that you want to save do that first. The procedure explained below will completely wipe it out. If you need help backing up the data let me know.

Now you want to visit disk management. There are several ways to get there but I prefer going to Start --> Run --> then type diskmgmt.msc and press enter. You should now be at this screen:


When you install an extra hard drive in XP and start up disk management, it will notice the new drive and start the Hard drive installation wizard. If it doesn't start automatically right click on the drive icon and select initialize.

A newly installed drive will always be set as a basic disk. If you have XP professional you can set it as a dynamic disk which is what I suggest. (Home edition doesn't support dynamic disks).  So if you have to use it as a basic disk just create a new partition by right clicking an unallocated part of the drive and selecting "New Partition".

This will start the New Partition Wizard. Here you want to set the new partition as primary. After that you can specify the size of you new partition. If you want to split that drive up into multiple partitions here is where you can do that. Then you  will be asked if you want to assign the new drive a letter mount it as a folder to an existing partition. I suggest giving it a letter. It can be any letter you like after C.
The last screen will ask you how you want to format. Choose NTFS and make sure that you do not select the quick format option. You can also give your new drive a label here, like "Ivy's storage" or whatever you want to call it. You don't have to give it a label if you don't want to.

After the wizard finishes formating your new drive you will be back at disk management and you should be able to see your new drive. You will be able to access the drive by clicking "My Computer" and selecting the new drive.

Once you get this far post back and I will walk you through the rest. Or if you have XP professional and want to know how to set up a dynamic disk let me know and I will tell you how to do that.

[Ivy]

I assume that you already have the other drive installed. If you don't, then post back and I will walk you through the process.

I have just C Drive and D Drive , All the programs are on C Drive , D Drive is totally empty.

[JJ 3000]

Well if D is already set up and ready to go then you can go ahead and start moving some of your stuff over to it.  Just click on D in My Computer and open it. For stuff like music and pics etc I usually just drag and drop. Find the file in your 'my documents" or wherever you have them and drag them into D.

You can unistall the program from your C drive through add/remove programs in control panel.

To install programs on D you will need the disk or setup file. During installation, when the programs setup asks where you want to install the program point it to D.

You can also move your page file to D which will give you a slight boost in speed. Adding more RAM to your computer is the best way to increase it's speed, but if you can't do that then this will give you a slight boost.

What you want to do is right click on "My Computer" and select properties, then click the advanced tab. In the performance section, click the settings button to open the Performance Options dialog box. Select the advanced tab and then click the Change button in the Virtual Memory section. Select your D drive and give it a size and a range and you'll be ready to go!

Also you should go into the disk defragmenter and choose analyze. You may need to defrag C.

[Ivy]

I'm on it, I'm gonna use my D Drive for the CS3 software.

How much size and range do you suggest I give it?

Hey did I mention that I really appreciate your help.

[JJ 3000]

How much RAM does your computer have?

[Ivy]

512 MB....I know I need to increase it.

[JJ 3000]

You can play with the size of your swap file until your find what's right for your machine. You can make it as large as you like. Give this a look:
http://winhlp.com/node/42

[Salmon Trout]

it will take longer to access the the data on the the storage drive, than if it was on the C drive.

Why?

[Ivy]

JJ 3000,

Installed all the college work and everything directly into the D Drive, reading This, will complete what's left after finishing the read.

Thank you so much for all the detailed help.

[JJ 3000]

So, have you noticed any difference in speed?

[Salmon Trout]

So, have you noticed any difference in speed?

Why do you think there would be? It can provide a performance boost... but probably tiny/undetectable & only if the partitions are on separate disks, and those disks are on different IDE channels if the machine uses PATA drives. Factors like fragmentation level, disk rpm, etc would need to be taken into account too. But I do not see why you think it would necessarily be slower.

[Ivy]

JJ 3000, my computer seems all sorted out now, it's simple now and seems faster too.

Thank you so much( gotta click on Thank JJ 3000 for their post again) 

[ALAN_BR]

Ivy

I think you really need more RAM.

Virtual RAM (swap file / pagefile etc) is the poor man's version for people looking to kill time ! !

My machine had only 256 MB of RAM.
My cat lost a tin of cat meet so I could spend some pension on 1 GB extra RAM,
and my P.C. became supercharged - especially on start-up.

Right now Windows task manager is showing that I am using 352 MB, and since start-up the peak usage was 550 MB.
I am using Firefox with several tabs, and have 4 text files open for editing.
I suspect you would normally be using a lot more than that.

Now I have 1.25 GB of RAM, any * sensible application * can access a byte of data "instantly" (probably less than 1 microsecond to access the data on the silicon, plus a bit more as the operating system processes data requests and organises the transfer.)
With only 256 MB much of the data would not be on the silicon, but on a rotating magnetic disc, and if it spins at 5400 r.p.m. that is about 11 milliseconds per rotation,
so after umpteen mSec for the head to step to the correct track, it then has up to 11 mSec to wait for the rotation to bring the desired data to where the head can read it.
You could easily suffer a latency of 20 mSec.

Fetching a byte of data from Virtual Ram could be 20,000 times slower than getting it from REAL RAM.

With a bit of luck when the first byte is eventually read from Virtual RAM then perhaps a few hundred adjacent bytes will also be put in a cache ready for instant access to an application that typically will want a bundle of consecutive bytes.  This is application dependant.  I prefer certainty.  REAL RAM makes a REAL improvement in REAL life.

* sensible application * - I am excluding anything which insists upon using pagefile/swap file instead of freely available REAL RAM.

Alan

[BC_Programmer]

Memory accesses have been rated in Nanoseconds even since the original IBM-PC.

512MB is an OK amount for XP, However, running a large number of big programs (such as Illustrator, photoshop, etc) at the same time means that it can't all fit in physical RAM at once; once allocated memory exceeds available physical memory Windows needs to prioritize what remains in physical RAM and what get's swapped out. basically, it's a fairly involved algorithm involving what code segments are run more often as well as what data is accessed- for example if you use a certain command often it will remain in memory; whereas the other portions of the process's code segment might be swapped to disk.


The way that windows loads a executable can be important in determining exactly what effect virtual memory has on it, as well as what effect it will have on virtual memory.

What it does is basically to "Map" the file in memory. Now this doesn't actually Allocate data within memory, but rather a file to be accessed via memory accesses rather then file I/O from the disk to the file; this is far easier both code-wise and performance wise. Rather then copy code into memory and run it, windows can simply point execution to the "WinMain()" function within the mapped program file (of course it's not quite that simple, since external links have to be resolved and so on, but sometimes things need to be omitted for brevity's sake). this way, the parts of the program itself that remain in RAM are kept in memory or swapped out based on the same logic that determines the same for data; that is, frequently accessed bits remain in RAM, whereas pages that are more infrequently used are more likely to be swapped out when memory get's low.

"When memory get's low" is a key phrase here; while many pages in a program file may be marked as "disposable" or swappable, Windows will still keep those bits out of Virtual memory for as long as possible; it is only when all physical RAM is committed and a program attempts to commit some more (or if a there is no contiguous block of free RAM that is large enough for the requested size a program wants) that windows takes a good hard look at the loaded pages. Basically the logic boils down to, "will I need this right away?" and makes a sort of guess based on how often it is accessed as well as the flags set on that particular memory page. For example pages can be set to never leave physical RAM, often programs will flag critical parts of their code with this to increase performance. It is obviously discouraged to do so with vast swaths of a program, since it restricts the abilities of the cache manager to do it's job.

This is where the mapped file I/O comes in- the file I/O itself is done "on the fly" as needed; in effect when an executable is loaded it is very nearly treated as a small, read-only swap file; in that data can be loaded from the executable, but never written, so that if it is swapped it is swapped to virtual memory. Some have queried why the executable might not be changed, and the reasons range from the obvious (do you really want your executables to be writing themselves?) to the more precise (after data is loaded from the executable- it is often "template" data, and is changed; often by the program itself, setting hooks and self-modifying code; the technique is called "copy on write" and is used quite extensively.


As a final note, RAM usage of two instances of the same application as reported by task manager are quite erroneous; the "private bytes" are not necessarily "Private" bytes, since the two applications share the same code and data; that is, their process address space is the same... until one instance changes code or data, at which point the touched page is duplicated, the write committed to the page and the processes memory map updated to refer to this "changed" page rather then the "template" one.

[ALAN_BR]

Ever since "Windows for Workgroups 3.?" I have used a P.C. to create / edit / compile 'C' source code files for Real time embedded security systems using 8 bit non-intel microprocessors, and to transfer those files to and from company servers.

What little I knew of swap files etc was in the early days when there were never any registry problems - there was no registry - life was simple.

Company policy was that software developers must focus upon enhancing with extra features our perfect real time systems that ran 24/7/365 year after year without a single B.S.O.D., and that any P.C. problem had to be referred to the I.T. department which specialised in B.S.O.D.s.

Now I am retired I learning a lot more about Windows.
Thank you for your information.

Regards
Alan