Create a website.

[Brain32]

    BC_Programmer  So what do I have to do to became a good webdesigner? 
too many words in your message like HTML and the others I just not understanding. 

[Geek-9pm]

Here is a link you may wan to check out.
http://web.com
This is not an endorsement.  I just found this and I think tyou can get a program from them that build cool sires from templates. I used an old version years ago and had a awesome site at that time.
It may be worth the effort sign up and get the free software. At an way, you  MIGHT  see what some others think is good design and you can judge for yourself.

I have not checked it out. If it is really FREE, fine.
But if they ask for to much information, forget it!

[kpac]

I knew before clicking on that link that something was fishy (or "phishy"). http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/web.com
Geek, don't you use WOT?

So what do I have to do to became a good webdesigner?

Use a text editor.

[Geek-9pm]

I knew before clicking on that link that something was fishy (or "phishy"). http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/web.com
Geek, don't you use WOT?
Use a text editor.

I don't trust WOT. has all the earmarks of a poor sire.

Never use a text editor!
This is 2009. Text editors became dead end programming 30 years ago.
Real programmers don't use text editor, except during lunch while having a pizza. You can eat a pizza with one hand while doing a text editor with the other.

One more idea for the OP. Check out Netfirms.
http://www.netfirms.com/
They are a trusted Web host.
For the price of a domain name they offer some tools that are fairly good. Brut it does require some learning to get into it.

 

[BC_Programmer]

Never use a text editor!
This is 2009. Text editors became dead end programming 30 years ago.
Real programmers don't use text editor

I'm confused- If we're not using text editors to program, *censored* are we using, because they sure as *censored* look like text editors.

Sure, some of them have syntax highlighting and so forth- but they are editors. of text. they are text editors. There are no WYSIWYG editors for programming languages. (oh, and before anybody says it is, things such as Visual Basic, Delphi, or WinFX/WPF and Windows Forms are not, strictly speaking, WYSIWYG programming, since you don't always get what yo see, depending on how you code. Additionally, it more or less acts as a template for what you would need to do with every program anyway, "Oh, golly gee, what is this, the 500th program that I've registered a window class created windows and manually handled the message pumps for each? perhaps I should automate this somehow..." The differences are vast between these types of editors and things like dreamweaver/interdev and frontpage, the main one being that they aren't really generating any code in another sort of language, HTML editors save as, well, HTML. and given their programmatic nature often have little regard for filesize. "who cares if it's the default for that attribute. save them all into the tag *censored*" seems to be an overriding argument.

WYSIWYG editing of websites is just plain stupid for anything but the most trivial web page, and even then, the wysiwyg editor, be it Visual Interdev,Dreamweaver, or what-have-you, refuses to let you change basic attributes of freaking tables or images that are easily done with an editor by adding a single frikkin' attribute. "Oh I know, I'll futz about with the Dreamweaver dialogs, just so I can find out how to add a "class" attribute to these three tables that links to the stylesheet I have above, even though I can do it in ten seconds by editing it directly".

[itburnswhenipee]

I use a soldering iron...

[kpac]

Never use a text editor!

I don't get it.

A WYSIWYG editor is fine for basic HTML sites. But as BC said, for programming languages like PHP for example - they're useless.

[Geek-9pm]

I'm confused- If we're not using text editors to program, *censored* are we using, because they sure as  look like text editors.

A text  editor just does text. Nothing else.
A What you See is What You Get means a visual editor that shows you the graphical presentation without the embedded code being visible.
With low-level system languages that would not have much meaning.

People used to have to use a macro text editor to get formatted output on a printer hard copy page. You had to imagine what it would look like. You would print it on a quality printer to see how it would look. One of the earlier WYSIWYG editors was Word star. They also have another product we would use for writing just plain program code. But documents that were to be presented to managers and customers have to look pretty.(Back then we could not just put it in an e-mail! It had to be printed on bond paper and put into a nice folder with the company's logo on the front.)

A good High Level language lets you place things on the screen and you can change it around, change fonts, drop menus . An old system we had once used a metaphor of the code being on the back side of the screen. You would flip it over to see the code, them flip it back to see the visual output.

Not sure what happened to it. I think MS bought it and buried it. It was too powerful. Can't have everybody make  power programs. And that was twenty  years ago. If MS had not got in the way, everybody wound have their own in-house word processors, spreadsheets, databases and custom vertical applications. But that would not be progress, it would put software engineers in the same pay scale as dishwashers.   

[BC_Programmer]

An old system we had once used a metaphor of the code being on the back side of the screen. You would flip it over to see the code, them flip it back to see the visual output.

I believe that was "Ruby", which just so happens to be what Visual Basic was based on... well, all the versions up to and including VB6, I suppose.

One of the earlier WYSIWYG editors was Word star. They also have another product we would use for writing just plain program code. But documents that were to be presented to managers and customers have to look pretty.(Back then we could not just put it in an e-mail! It had to be printed on bond paper and put into a nice folder with the company's logo on the front.)

HTML is not printed on bond paper for such customers. the markup is used to tell the computer how to display it on a computer screen. This HTML has to be downloaded, and therefore should be as small as possible. most WYSIWYG solutions that store plain HTML (which is a dying breed, actually) make it extremely bloated, and those that don't include stylesheets with esoteric, meaningless class names that would be impossible to edit manually if the need ever arose. "the need will never arise" you say. Well, things change, and such WYSIWYG programs eventually become outdated. so you can use notepad, which is free, or use one of these WYSIWYG programs, for a subscription price, as you are required to buy each new version to use new HTML/XML features in your mangled-beyond-recognition HTML/XML files, because adding them by hand is unthinkable.

[Geek-9pm]

HTML is not printed on bond paper for such customers. the markup is used to tell the computer how to display it on a computer screen

Yes, and it is a rather poor excuse  for a mark up language.As you say, it becomes very bloated when they try to add more features.
An effective language has to be limited. The idea of endless expansion does not do well in a language. It has to have a limited vocabulary and syntax. You build more features by using what is already there.
Bu I think we are off the track here. The OP wanted to do a simple, useful language. Good idea. Sometimes you learn a lot by building hour own tools. People did this sort of thing years ago as a learning exercise.You learn to have respect for the effort of others that have gone before you.
The onlytime I use notepad to edit HtML is when I don't know an easier way to do something. Like change all the references to a relative URL to an absolute.  Acually, I do know how to do it, but for a few changes it is quicker in notepad instead of loading the web page development tool I use.
And I used to do that when I misspent some words in a large project. I did not want to put the whole project through the wash cycle again.

Otherwise, no, don't edit in notepad.
 Bit TEDIT is something else. It's not notepad.
http://www.tedit.net/

[BC_Programmer]

Otherwise, no, don't edit in notepad.
 Bit TEDIT is something else. It's not notepad.
http://www.tedit.net/

TEdit.NET is an ASP.NET control for viewing and editing database tables.

how does that help with editing HTML?



I used notepad/ the built in text editor from my web host for my entire site, not counting the blog. writing PHP has a strange requirement to, well, write PHP. something awfully difficult with a click and deploy webpage editor.

And I think, by notepad.... really we mean any text editor; notepad kind of sucks for anything but the most basic editing, like looking at log files or reading readmes.

[Quantos]

Yes, and it is a rather poor excuse  for a mark up language.As you say, it becomes very bloated when they try to add more features.
An effective language has to be limited.

More feature and syntax does not make for a convoluted imprecise language.  Using syntax improperly makes for a convoluted language.  The more syntax there is in a language(spoken at least) makes for a far more precise language, I just can't visualize it being any different with computers.
I think you are missing the point of what is being said.

[BC_Programmer]

I think what geek-9pm is really trying to say is that he has trouble with HTML because he finds it's cold hard rules restricting.

I will however give you this geek-9pm, a web development tool probably works a LOT better with voice dictation software, because of all the special characters (hash signs, angle brackets, etc), so obviously it makes a far more convenient tool, for you personally.

Also, if HTML is imprecise and confusing.... I wonder what his opinion on perl is?

[Geek-9pm]

IMO, a newbie should learn HTML after he has done some actual web design.
Like a newer artist should just buy his paints already made to colors he needs. Later, as he becomes more skilled, he can mix the paint himself.

I would suggest the newbie study Net Objects Fusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetObjects_Fusion
It is kind of pricey, but he might find and older copy for a big discount.
And you do not have to be a dummy to use it!

[Quantos]

IMO, a newbie should learn HTML after he has done some actual web design.
Like a newer artist should just buy his paints already made to colors he needs. Later, as he becomes more skilled, he can mix the paint himself.

I would suggest the newbie study Net Objects Fusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetObjects_Fusion
It is kind of pricey, but he might find and older copy for a big discount.
And you do not have to be a dummy to use it!

Now what good is looking at the end point going to do somebody that is trying to get there?  It won't do them any good.  They won't know what they are looking at unless they actually have a valid starting point.