A fond farewell

[Dilbert]

Hello CH, it's been ages since I've talked to you guys, I know. I wonder how many people still recognize me?

Well, I have to come to terms with a simple fact: The life of a college student is a full-time job, and I'm not going to have any real spare time in the foreseeable future. So I think it would be easier for me to stop pretending that I'm going to have enough spare time to dedicate to CH. When my email failed and Nathan had to remove my Mod privileges to keep his email from flooding, well, I figured now was as good a time as any to say what has to be said, imo:

Farewell, CH. It's been a good run, and I've loved growing up with this forum. 

I won't forget you guys, since I love this forum so much. It was a huge part of my growing up to participate in helping as many people as I could with computer issues, a task that still goes on in real life for me to this day. We've had our ups and downs, and I posted a huge load of FAQs to help the site as best as I could (though looking back, some could use a revision, especially the ones I wrote when I was 13-14  )

However, I don't want to go out with just a quiet word, a fond farewell, whatever. If you knew me, you know that's not how I roll. I tend to go with a bang, make a huge spectacle. So I'll do the best that I can. The best thing I can think to do is present you guys with one last problem from me, what will be a doozie of a problem that has baffled everyone who I've tried to explain this problem to, and I can't even begin to diagnose this problem myself. Not sure if this is a hardware, software or OS issue, so it's in Other. (Ok, I hope this one's hard because if not I'll look like a complete moron  )

Okay, this all began after my computer died and I had to purchase a cheap machine to tide me over. It was a Compaq Presario with the following vital stats:

2.2 GHz Single Core CPU
160 GB hdd space
2 GB DDR2 RAM
nVidia GeForce 8500 GT <--I put that in, not onboard video
Windows Vista Home Basic

I later added a 500 GB Internal hdd, then a 1TB external.

When the life of my machine began to wear down, I started having an issue where the computer would almost shut down. The OS would close, the monitor would fade to power save... but the fans would still be running, indicating that power had not been cut and the machine was still technically on. The only way I could fully turn off the machine was to hard shut it off. Sometimes it would not even make it that far and freeze on the "Shutting Down..." screen. Again, hard power off or reset was my only option.

Naturally, I've run Scandisk on several occasions to check my boot sectors and make sure I'm not trashing them. Scandisk is coming up empty for errors, but it's still annoying that the PC only shuts down correctly about 5% of the time.

Here's where it gets weird. I've recently upgraded almost all the major components, to the point where I don't have a Compaq Presario but a custom built machine with a few Compaq parts. I have replaced the following:

Power Supply
Motherboard
Connector cables (hard drive to mobo, power cable, etc)
OS

The only things that are from the old machine are the DVD-ROM, the hdd itself (formatted and now has Vista Home Premium OEM), the RAM, and I'm using the same video card (PCI-E) that I was using before. I'm barely using C: beyond the OS; almost all my software is installed to the 500 GB Internal.

Imagine my chagrin when I noticed that I am still having problems of the same nature, even with a 90% new build. Naturally, this narrows my problem down to one of these parts, but I'm at a loss as to which component I should be checking. Scandisk is still coming up empty for hard drive integrity problems, so at the very least I know I'm not trashing my boot record with these hard power-offs (though it still makes me understandably uncomfortable). I'm not sure if a problem with the RAM could be causing this, though I can't rule it out. I am definitely willing to rule out the DVD-ROM, since it has nothing to do with the shutdown sequence.

Looking forward to any help I can get on this issue... if there's anymore info you need, of course, feel free to ask. Cheers and take care.

-Timothy Bennett

P.S. An interesting side effect: When I have to hard shut down, the Num Lock on my PS/2 keyboard remains on and I can't shut it off. Probably not related to the problem but an interesting tidbit.

P.P.S I should note that I'm not having any other major issues with my computer at this time (Vista compatibility nightmares notwithstanding)

[Helpmeh]

WHAT?! NOOOOOOOOO...!

I haven't had much experience, but I know you had quite a big effect here. You will be missed dearly.

[BC_Programmer]

WHAT?! NOOOOOOOOO...!

I haven't had much experience, but I know you had quite a big effect here. You will be missed dearly.

you didn't help with the problem!


Sounds to me, like perhaps an issue with the Video card; Only reason I say that is every time I've had a power management issue it has always ended up being the video card or it's driver.

Also: Make sure your actually shutting down and not suspending. (although I suppose that should be obvious.), since Vista doesn't Shut down when you click Shut down by default.

Also your "Boot Record" Which I assume you mean Boot Sector () is not accessed during power down. Neither is the MBR. The only possible data loss from a power off while the PC is on is with files that are currently open, or, more precisely, files that are open and have changed contents that have not been flushed, or even worse, have only been partially flushed. But since the PC is practically at the end of the shut-down I doubt there's any danger from that.

Only way to rule out RAM would be by swapping it out; RAM is one of the components that can cause this; you could even try removing some of the RAM, if you have multiple sticks, and see if the problem is eliminated using either stick of RAM.

[JJ 3000]

Same thing with safe mode?

[Dilbert]

Hello again,

Well, BC, I have to admit I did not expect the video card to be the issue. Since I don't have a lot of financial resources available at the moment, I can't buy new memory or try another video card at the moment. I do have 2 sticks of memory (1 GB each), though I'm not sure if I can run Vista with only one of them in place. For now, I suppose the only way I can test in that area is to wait for new drivers for my video card. (In fact, now that you mention it, I remember that I didn't have this problem from the day I bought that video card; it could very well be the drivers.) I will attempt to boot with just one and then the other RAM stick over the next couple of days, when I have the time to sit down and work on it... my schedule for this week is fairly busy so it may be a little bit before I can get back to you guys on the RAM test.

Also, I have changed settings so that the Shut Down button on the Start Menu actually does Shut Down. It's one of the first changes I make on a new Vista Install, not sure whose bright idea it was to make Sleep the default command. (Or was it Hibernate? Either way, only a useful tool on a laptop IMO.)

Thank you for putting my mind at ease about the Boot Sector (yes, I used the wrong term... but you knew what I meant ). I'll admit a lack of expertise concerning the MBR & Boot Sector, since most of my knowledge comes from breaking things and learning how I broke it and how I can fix it. Naturally, I don't get a lot of practice with the MBR. (I do know that Linux on a dual-boot does not like to be uninstalled; in my earlier teen years I tried a dual boot twice... both times I tried to remove Linux for lack of real desire to use it, it trashed the MBR )

I'll also try booting in Safe Mode, per JJ 3000's suggestion; in fact I'll probably do that first as it requires the least amount of physical effort on my part (I can't name a single time that I opened my computer box and didn't come out with a cut or other minor injury )

Cheers,

Tim

[michaewlewis]

My first thoughts were that the RAM may be bad, but also didn't think that the video card could be the problem.

You mentioned that you replaced the mobo, but did you also replace the CPU or is it the original CPU?

[Dilbert]

I'm sorry, forgot to mention I also replaced the CPU; it is a 2.9 GHz Dual Core. (Also, the new CPU is Intel, while the old one was AMD.)

EDIT: Ah, it seems on the 5th, new drivers for the video card have been released. I am going to try it out now and see if that fixes the problem.

[Dilbert]

Minor update, I actually feel guilty bumping this as it's not much.

I've updated the drivers for my video card and it hasn't fixed my problem. I would start RAM testing soon, but unfortunately my 3 1/2 year old glasses finally gave out today, and with vision surpassing 20/180 (astigmatism) I don't trust myself to tinker with parts, even though I'm quite familiar with them. My appointment to get another vision test and a new pair of glasses is later today; I'll need about a week, I presume, before I'll be able to see a dang thing I do. I promise I'll get to troubleshooting my memory as soon as I can.

Until then,

Timothy

[Dilbert]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't reported in, but I wanted to tell you guys I figured out the problem, completely by accident.

You see, for a while, I had a problem where a MMO that I play began to have a memory leak following a large patch. In an attempt to combat the problem, I opened up more virtual memory on all my hard drives - including the 1 TB external USB hard drive.

However, the other day, I decided it was getting cold enough I should start running my wall-heater. This was a bit problematic because my desk was blocking the heat vent. However, I was also chatting with a friend on skype and didn't want to close it all down. I figured I could move my desk (on wheels) without shutting down my computer, because I wasn't moving my desk far enough to require that I unplug the computer.

While I was in the process of moving my desk, the USB connection to the computer became unplugged. I had a BSOD and the computer shut down. I didn't bother reconnecting the drive because I was busy. Since that point, I have had no problems with my computer, shutting down or starting up.

From there, the solution to the problem was pretty easy to figure out. I was having problems shutting down 80% of the time because the external drive wasn't able to clear its used memory fast enough, therefore it couldn't shut down (or something like that). The other 20% I can infer was times that the external hard drive wasn't in use.

So, lesson learned: Do not allocate virtual memory to a USB hard drive.

[soybean]

So, lesson learned: Do not allocate virtual memory to a USB hard drive.

So, you were using the ReadyBoost feature in Vista, right?

[Allan]

Readyboost is not virtual memory - it's a cache.

Dilbert - aside from anything else, moving or jostling a computer while on is dangerous for the HD. If the head jumps around - well, you can guess. You always want the head parked before moving the system. I recognize this isn't the problem you ran into - but still............