audio cable fried after replacing video card and doing PC clean...other issues?

[mdb09]

I'll appreciate any advice on the following problem I encountered while replacing what I believed to be a faulty graphics card and doing a computer clean. Here are my specs and the problem (...very detailed, but hopefully it helps). Thanks!

System Specs (purchased in 2003 from ABS computers):
450W power supply
Gigabyte GA-8IPE1000 Pro intel 865PE motherboard
Pentium 4 2.8GHz 512k 800MHz FSB processor
2 of DDR 256MB PC3200 memory
120GB hard drive
Radeon 9700 PRO 128MB DDR 8x AGP DVI/TV-out
Sound Blaster Audigy w/ 1394 firewire port sound card
DVD/CD-rom drive
CDRW re-write drive

With original system above, I started having trouble with the display. Vertical bands of large pixels, neon colors, and you could barely make out what was on the screen. First it was a couple times a month. Re-booting fixed it. Then it became constant. I saw the fan to the graphics card wasn't spinning while PC was on. It was caked in dust, so I cleaned it and the fan resumed spinning, but display problem remained. I resolved that the graphics card must have overheated and was damaged.

I just bought a new graphics card which I believe is compatible with my system and would be a budget replacement, a EVGA GeForce 6200 / 256MB DDR2 / AGP 8x / DVI / VGA / TV-Out Video Card. I installed it and all seemed to work fine, although I never checked to see if audio worked (this applies later on). After making sure it worked, I decided to do a thorough clean of the computer, cleaning fans, etc. I also re-applied thermal grease to the heatsink, making sure not to apply too much (...but I wonder now if this could relate to the problem encountered). After cleaning all dust with a combo of compressed air/vacuum, I plugged in the disconnected fans, turned on the PC and then encountered the problem.

The Problem:
The second I turned on the PC, I saw smoke and smelt fumes, and immediately unplugged the power. Other than these two things, everything looked and sounded fine (ie fans worked, led's were on, normal beeps). I inspected where I saw the smoke coming from and clearly saw that one wire in a ribbon cable had burned through the coating. This ribbon cable, oddly, was connected to the Audigy sound card and is labeled as the joystick port. No joystick was plugged in when PC was powered on. However, this cable was well twisted and folded back on itself with a tight tie strap. I've heard this can cause short circuits?

Now I'll explain what I've done to troubleshoot:
I checked my application of thermal grease to make sure it wasn't spilling over the sides. It was not. I unplugged the extraneous (now fried) joystick cable to the sound card. I then powered on the PC (with new video card) and all was normal (ie fans, lights, beeps, etc.) I plugged in the monitor cable and there was no display. The monitor led's blinked like it was on standby. I reset the RAM, the graphics card, and the sound card. Same problem. I tested the PC on a known working monitor and still no display.

Next troubleshooting attempt:
I then took out the Geforce video card and put back in the old Radeon video card, with the sound card in. The PC powered on as normal and the monitor worked, but the original problem of the messed up display remained. With the odd display, I was able to try opening both itunes and windows media player. Both opened, but detected a problem with the sound card and would not play audio.

I then decided to put back in the new Geforce video card and take out the sound card (which had the fried ribbon cable attached) . Removing the sound card required me to unplug a cable running from CD-IN on sound card to cd drive. I took this cable and connected it to the same socket (the on-board sound) of the MOBO.  The second cable, the 1394 firewire cable, I unplugged, as well as it's connection to the MOBO, via the firewire and USB ports. I then powered on the PC, and all seems good. The internals of the PC seem normal. The monitor powered on and detected a signal. The display is good and normal. But then I tried opening an audio file with itunes and WMP and both detected a sound device problem again and would not play any audio. It wouldn't even show the seconds of the song ticking away on itunes/WMP. Same problem, just like before.

Sidenote: I've checked system hardware and found only the following error for the "PCI simple communications controller PCI slot 4" (...used by TV tuner adapter)
"The drivers for the device are not installed (Code 28)

 

So the questions I have:
Do I have to re-configure the PC to detect the on-board MOBO sound?
What could have caused the joystick ribbon cable to fry? And did this destroy the audio card and/or PCI slot?
Why would a bad audio card disrupt a good video card from working correctly?
Is a bad sound card my only problem now, or could there be damage to the MOBO?
Is there something I've done/missed that could damage the PC if I decide to use it without sound for now? Any other tests I should do?

Thank you for taking the time to go over this hardware problem and I appreciate any advice.

[mroilfield]

If you used a vacuum on the inside of your comp you could have messed up a lot of things. Vacuums create static electricity and could have fried some of your components.

[rthompson80819]

Vacuums create static electricity and could have fried some of your components.

I've read this comment posted here several times, sometimes by people that I have a lot of respect for their opinions, but I've done a little research on static electricity and can't find out why a vacuum cleaner (besides the fact that your using an electrical device near a PC) is worst than a can of compressed air.

Static electricity is a transfer of electrons which can be caused by rapid air flow.  I don't understand why a vacuum cleaner is worse than compressed air.

Obviously, several people have had a problem with vacuum cleaners but I don't understand why.

[BC_Programmer]

http://www.computerhope.com/cleaning.htm


It's not necessarily the movement of air that causes it but the static charge that the hose and vacuum nozzle acquire due to the electric motor. Also, remember that the air is being sucked towards the nozzle and is not any sort of purified air- anything within the air (dust is always present) will generate static when it rubs against any other component. Compressed air does not come with dust and therefore no static charge is developed when the air glides against a surface.

On the original question:

did you install the drivers for the on-board sound? Any error messages from music/slound players?

[Salmon Trout]

Vacuum cleaners are a very bad thing to use on computers. They are worse than cans of compressed air because they are much more powerful. Also one tends to release periodic puffs from a can whereas a vacuum cleaner exerts a sustained force. I don't think the danger is so much static as the fact that they can exert enough suction to loosen, unseat, move or even remove components completely. Jumpers and surface mounted components can get sucked off, and a very common problem is the overspeeding of fans resulting in destruction of the bearings and/or dislodging of impellers and/or frying the electronics (a motor when rotated by an external force becomes a generator). Motherboards can get cracked.

So the questions I have:

Do I have to re-configure the PC to detect the on-board MOBO sound?

If no additional sound card is present in a slot then (assuming the mobo is not permanently damaged) then the onboard audio should be recognised and used. You may have to enter the BIOS setup and configure/enable it.

What could have caused the joystick ribbon cable to fry? And did this destroy the audio card and/or PCI slot?

Like you say, overtight folding back could have damaged insulation, or possibly the short could have occurred somewhere else and the wire may have been the weakest link (like the wire in a fuse). The smoke and burned insulation are just the signs that you saw. A 450 W power supply (in fact any PC power supply) can provide dozens of amps at 5 and 12 volts and any fuses fitted are there merely prevent your PC catching fire completely and burning the house down. They will not prevent permanent damage. The current from the psu travels through regulator transistors and other vulnerable components, and along motherboard tracks and if these get hot enough they can melt and/or severely damage the board and adjacent components, all along the path from where the PSU plugs into the motherboard to where the smoking was seen to emerge.

Why would a bad audio card disrupt a good video card from working correctly?

For example by drawing excess current, dragging down a voltage rail, or by affecting the motherboard hardware such as the chipset or associated components. Or by sending wrong signals down the PCI bus and causing the chipset to malfunction.

Is a bad sound card my only problem now, or could there be damage to the MOBO?

In general, when there has been overheating bad enough to cause smoking, permanent and irrepairable damage is very very likely. I believe your motherboard is probably damaged beyond repair.

Is there something I've done/missed that could damage the PC if I decide to use it without sound for now?

Hard to tell; it's always going to be suspect.

Any other tests I should do?

Be alert for any signs of overheating or erratic behaviour.

[Salmon Trout]

http://www.computerhope.com/cleaning.htm

It's not necessarily the movement of air that causes it but the static charge that the hose and vacuum nozzle acquire due to the electric motor. Also, remember that the air is being sucked towards the nozzle and is not any sort of purified air- anything within the air (dust is always present) will generate static when it rubs against any other component. Compressed air does not come with dust and therefore no static charge is developed when the air glides against a surface.

Sorry, BC the static comes entirely from the movement of air. The nature of the motor and the presence or otherwise of dust have no relevance.

By the way, NEVER vacuum up spilled toner from a laser printer or photocopier. Mop it up. It is so fine that it passes through filters, and it is a plastic/carbon mix which is designed to melt at a fairly moderate temperature. Vacuum cleaners cool the motor by passing the airflow through, so you have a good likelihood of the motor getting clogged and then catching fire.

[BC_Programmer]

Sorry, BC the static comes entirely from the movement of air. The nature of the motor and the presence or otherwise of dust have no relevance.

Oh ok, I was just trying to rationalize it myself there. I had forgotten that the air itself can hold an electric charge, (altogether obvious from the existence of lightning and other phenomona) I was confusing air and water for some reason (that is, water conducts electricity due to minute impurities- this is not the case for air) Ialso  never considered the interesting fact that fans can work backwards- that is, as a electric generator; it only makes sense. And given the more powerful nature of the suction chances are the power being delivered back into the fan circuit is many times greater then what would normally be given to the fan during normal operation- and depending on the fan, it might even be backwards as well.

[mdb09]

Thank you Salmon Trout for your detailed post, and thank you to everyone else for your insight.

It makes sense now that the vacuum cleaner could have a lot to do with the problem encountered.

I am sending this post from the questionable PC. Everything appears normal. Fans are still operating but some are still noisy, as before. I'm assuming the bearings are well worn after 6 years of use. I enabled on-board sound and installed the driver. I'm able to play audio after a test in itunes/youtube and I also configured my 5.1 speakers and they seem to be working fine. The video works fine in youtube. The USB port tested reads a file on a flash drive fine. The CD drive worked fine to run the MOBO utility cd.

I intend to use this (relatively old) PC for managing music and other large files, as well as standard word processing and internet. Do not plan to use it for anything intensive (e.g. gaming, video editing, etc.) I also don't intend to get a new sound card, as the on-board sound will be fine.

So, as Salmon Trout suggested, there could very well be other underlying issues/damage to the MOBO that may show itself over time. Basically, I should not consider this PC to be stable and always view it as suspect?

A few questions I now have (and I admit I don't know exactly what I'm asking):
1. Are there any other tests I should try or Bios-related checks I should do to check the stability of the PC? Maybe install system temperature software and check that frequently?
2. Is it possible, by luck, that because the audio card ribbon cable fried, any damage to the MOBO is exclusively related to that PCI slot? Maybe I damaged a part on the sound card while cleaning and that is the only part of the PC that is damaged, hence the burned cable?
3. I understand what you said, Salmon Trout, about electrostatic damage to the PSU, and if that's the source of the problem, it may have damaged any tracks it has in the PC (ie. track to Audio card) . If this is the case, there is still potential for that faulty PSU to eventually damage other tracks to other hardware right?
4. Should I be weary of leaving peripherals connected (e.g. mouse, 5.1 speakers, external HD) as the suspect MOBO could spontaneously short circuit and permanently damage these peripherals?

...in short, where do I go and what should I expect from here?

Thank you all for your help and advice. Much appreciated.

[Salmon Trout]

mdb09, it sounds like you have had a lucky escape. It could have been a lot worse. A PC is a very complex device, possibly the most complex device most people will ever have to deal with, and if yours is working to the extent that it evidently is, I would just leave it alone and carry on using it. I don't think it is going to spontaneously short circuit.

[mdb09]

Thanks Salmon Trout. I guess if any problems come up in the next few weeks, I'll have a good idea of the cause.

I forgot to mention the only thing that seems different after this problem. When turning on the PC, after the dos prompt and the "windows loading" screen, there seems to be a slightly longer delay (ie. black screen) before my windows desktop appears. This difference is so minor that I'll ignore it.

I appreciate everyone's time spent responding. I'll post to this thread of any issues that arise. Thank you.