Ribbon cable question

[Ryan]

I recently bought a dual drive ribbon cable from Microcenter.  It has a blue connector on one end, a black connector on the other, and a gray connector in the middle.  (I believe that the middle one is the slave connector.)  There's a longer distance between the slave connector and the blue one, than between the slave connector and the black one.  I was looking for a red stripe near the connector that goes into the motherboard, but had difficulty finding it, but did see it.  The ribbon cable is a Link Depot Ultra DMA ATA 133 cable, 24" in length.  Does the blue end go into the motherboard's IDE connector, if I see the stripe?  (There's only one way the connector can fit on.)

[patio]

MBoard===========================Slave======Master.

Hope this helps...

[Ryan]

That definitely helps.  Thanks Patio.  (I had suspected that was the right way, before posting my topic.)

[patio]

Always best to check 1st Ryan...no problem.

[Salmon Trout]

The blue end always goes in the motherboard.

[Geek-9pm]

MBoard===========================Slave======Master.

Hope this helps...

That is right,
But I want to know is why some 'techs' doth it this  other way?

Below is  is wrong!
Slave====================MBoard=============Master.

[BC_Programmer]

24" in length.

the IDE spec states

A 40-conductor ribbon cable is specified to carry signals between the bus adapter circuits and the drive (controller). To maximize signal integrity and eliminate potential timing and noise problems, the cable should not be longer than 18'' (0.46 meters).

Note that ATA drives supporting the higher-speed transfer modes, such as PIO Mode 4 or any of the Ultra-DMA (UDMA) modes, are especially susceptible to cable integrity problems and cables that are too long. If the cable is too long, you can experience data corruption and other errors that can be maddening. This will be manifested in any type of problem reading from or writing to the drive. In addition, any drive using UDMA Mode 5 (66MBps transfer rate), Mode 6 (100MBps transfer rate), or Mode 7 (133MBps transfer rate) must use a special, higher-quality 80-conductor cable (the extra conductors are grounds to reduce noise).

[Geek-9pm]

BC_Programmer, thanks for the nice quote.
Has anyone notices that with some cheap 'bundles' ...
they give the cheap cables?

[Ryan]

the IDE spec states

"A 40-conductor ribbon cable is specified to carry signals between the bus adapter circuits and the drive (controller). To maximize signal integrity and eliminate potential timing and noise problems, the cable should not be longer than 18'' (0.46 meters).

Note that ATA drives supporting the higher-speed transfer modes, such as PIO Mode 4 or any of the Ultra-DMA (UDMA) modes, are especially susceptible to cable integrity problems and cables that are too long. If the cable is too long, you can experience data corruption and other errors that can be maddening. This will be manifested in any type of problem reading from or writing to the drive. In addition, any drive using UDMA Mode 5 (66MBps transfer rate), Mode 6 (100MBps transfer rate), or Mode 7 (133MBps transfer rate) must use a special, higher-quality 80-conductor cable (the extra conductors are grounds to reduce noise)."

Should I take the IDE cable back to Microcenter and get it exchanged for an 18" one then?  I still have the receipt, and the package is unopened.

[Computer_Commando]

Here's more of the same with pics, notice 80-conductor vs. 40-conductor, even though both use 40-pin connector.
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable80-c.html

[BC_Programmer]

quote from the linked site as well:

Note also that the 18" length restriction associated with the original 40-conductor cable applies to this variation as well.

So, Personally, I would take it back. chances are it won't cause issues, but when you DO have issues it would be nice to know that your cable meets the spec to sort of put it above suspicion, right?

[Ryan]

Thanks for the information, Computer_Commando.


BC_Programmer, the computer I'm connecting the drive to to is a 200mhz computer, and is either a Pentium or Pentium II.  (I'm not sure which one it would be, but it might be a Pentium.)  The drive I'm planning on installing is a Samsung SD-612 DVD-ROM Drive 12X DVD-Master 12E OEM.  The drive is being added, and will be the lower of the two disc drives, and will have to be the slave drive.  (It has to be, as there's no other place to put the CD-ROM drive, which is a Goldstar 8x GCD-R580B.  The reason why the CD-ROM drive can't be moved is because the front of its tray fits into the front bezel of the computer, which has its own CD-ROM open/close button.)  I'm still planning on exchanging the ribbon cable, to be safe.

Below are pictures of the computer I'm talking about, an old HP Pavilion 7285 200mhz PC with the model number D3903A.  (The PC is on the far right, near the counter.)  This computer I don't use every day, and only use it if I'm going to play an old computer game from the mid-1990s.  The bottom picture shows part of the bezel removed to allow a look at where the DVD-ROM drive will be installed.  This is the same computer that a few years back, I had the CD-ROM drive at the top replaced due to problems with the original drive's tray opening on its own.

[Saving space, attachment deleted by admin]

[Ryan]

I have replaced the 24" dual ribbon cable with an 18" dual ribbon cable.  The ribbon cable question has been cleared.

[patio]

Cool Beans...

[Ryan]

Today, the DVD-ROM drive came, and I already have everything else that's needed.  The drive is protected by an anti-static sleeve, and won't be taken out until it's ready to be inserted.  Now, there's new questions though.

To make it easier to remove the correct ribbon cable from the motherboard, should the PCI cards be removed temporarily?  I'm assuming I will, to prevent damage to either one, and will insert them into the same PCI slots they were in when finished.

When connecting the spare CD audio cable to the DVD-ROM drive, will I get sound if I connect it to the sound card's AUX input?

By the way, if you look at the lower of the two pictures in one of my previous posts, you'll clearly see where the DVD-ROM drive will be.

By the way, do you know if Windows 95 has DVD support?  It should, if my Riven DVD game was released for it.  The version of Windows 95 the computer has is OSR2.

[Computer_Commando]

...
1.  should the PCI cards be removed temporarily?
2.  When connecting the spare CD audio cable to the DVD-ROM drive, will I get sound if I connect it to the sound card's AUX input?
3.  do you know if Windows 95 has DVD support?

1.  Only if they are in the way, which they shouldn't be.
2.  Only if you want sound from the jack on the front of the drive.
3.  It might see it as a CD-ROM, DVD's didn't exist until 1996.

[Ryan]

1.  Only if they are in the way, which they shouldn't be.
2.  Only if you want sound from the jack on the front of the drive.
3.  It might see it as a CD-ROM, DVD's didn't exist until 1996.

2.  In relation to the second question, will I get sound if the cable goes from the analog audio jack in the back of the DVD drive to the sound card's internal AUX connectior?  I'm asking this, as the CD audio connector of the sound card is already in use by the CD-ROM drive.
3.  Do you know if I will be able to run the Riven DVD after finishing with the installation of the DVD drive?  Do you know of any patches that could enable Windows 95 to detect the drive as a DVD-ROM?  My version of Windows 95 is OSR2, like I said in my previous post.

[Computer_Commando]

2.  In relation to the second question, will I get sound if the cable goes from the analog audio jack in the back of the DVD drive to the sound card's internal AUX connectior?  I'm asking this, as the CD audio connector of the sound card is already in use by the CD-ROM drive.
3.  Do you know if I will be able to run the Riven DVD after finishing with the installation of the DVD drive?  Do you know of any patches that could enable Windows 95 to detect the drive as a DVD-ROM?  My version of Windows 95 is OSR2, like I said in my previous post.

2.  Small analog cable is not required to get sound from drive to sound card.  IDE data cable carries all info.  I don't use those cables anymore, I think they're outputs from the sound card back the drive for the front jack only.
3.  Never tried Win95 with DVD.

[Ryan]

2.  Small analog cable is not required to get sound from drive to sound card.  IDE data cable carries all info.  I don't use those cables anymore, I think they're outputs from the sound card back the drive for the front jack only.
3.  Never tried Win95 with DVD.

2.  I can't say, Computer Commando....  The sound card's volume panel on the computer, in Win95, has volume controls for the CD and AUX audio.  I have something related to the analog CD audio cable to tell you about that I had expierienced last year:

I was starting to play Quake II by Id Software (released in 1997), when I noticed I was not getting any CD music out of the game, regardless of the CD volume settings.  Turned out that the analog CD audio cable had gotten broken somehow at the sound card's end.  After replacing it, Quake II's CD music worked again.  I think the unused CD audio cable might be needed with the DVD-ROM drive after all...  While the cable might not be necessary for current operating systems, Windows 95/98 probably will need it.

3.  I'll have to report back tomorrow regarding whether the Riven DVD runs.

[BC_Programmer]

2.  Small analog cable is not required to get sound from drive to sound card.  IDE data cable carries all info.  I don't use those cables anymore, I think they're outputs from the sound card back the drive for the front jack only.

It's the analog audio that goes from the CD drive to the sound card. the IDE data cable is only used for digital audio. Windows 98, and I believe windows 95, have a checkbox to use digital playback as opposed to analog, but I have no idea where it is.

[Salmon Trout]

3.  It might see it as a CD-ROM

It won't.

[patio]

I have a 2nd generation TDK DVD burner that the Win98SE machine recognises as a CDRom.

[Salmon Trout]

I have a 2nd generation TDK DVD burner that the Win98SE machine recognises as a CDRom.

But when you put a DVD-ROM in, can it read it? Even XP recognises an empty optical drive as a "CD-ROM" whatever type it is. I think this also applies to Vista and 7.

[patio]

No...it will not read/recognise DVD's...can burn CD's though.

Now i got your point !   

[Salmon Trout]

No...it will not read/recognise DVD's...can burn CD's though.

How do you know that either or both of DVD read and write lasers are not dead? Because that would cause this.

[BC_Programmer]

My Win98 Machine was able to use DVDs just fine... heck, I was playing DVDs even.

Also, Just tested: seems win95 can read DVD discs, but, since DVD didn't e xist then it still refers to them as "CD-ROM" discs, regardless of what is actually within the drive. Still reads them fine, though.

EDIT: also, my vista refers to my empty DVD-RW drive as a... well, a DVD-RW drive.

[patio]

How do you know that either or both of DVD read and write lasers are not dead? Because that would cause this.

Good question...i'm swapping it into the Win2K beast to test...

[Computer_Commando]

...Also, Just tested: seems win95 can read DVD discs, but, since DVD didn't e xist then it still refers to them as "CD-ROM" discs, regardless of what is actually within the drive. Still reads them fine, though.
...

That's what I was saying, but couldn't confirm it; now you have.  My Win95/Win31 notebook has no FDD and no optical drives.

[Salmon Trout]

EDIT: also, my vista refers to my empty DVD-RW drive as a... well, a DVD-RW drive.

I don't know if this is because I am running W7 (Build 7600) in a Sun Virtualbox VM...

(It's the same whether it has a disk in or not)

[BC_Programmer]

I don't know if this is because I am running W7 (Build 7600) in a Sun Virtualbox VM...

(It's the same whether it has a disk in or not)

curious.... my laptop is running win7 RTM and labels the DVD/RW burner as DVD/RW drive when no disc is present.

might be something regarding VirtualBox?

[patio]

I believe it's been Windows nature since NT/Win2K to report the drive as according to what the last optical disc was used in it...
Least that's how XP acts here...

[BC_Programmer]

hmm, when I insert an audio CD in my laptop, it now states

DVD RW Drive (F:)
Audio CD


My guess, is it depends on the OS. XP was released I believe just before DVD went mainstream, so it kind of only half-understands it; Vista and 7 were released afterwards so have full understanding.

[Ryan]

Just as I thought.  The DVD-ROM drive is installed, and detected as a Samsung DVD-ROM SD-612 under the bios, and is detected in Windows 95 as a CD-ROM under Windows Explorer.  The device manager showed it as a DVD-ROM.

Speaking of the analog audio, I had to choose the F: drive while in the multimedia part of the control panel to get it to work.  The Riven DVD ran just fine.  The analog audio cable is going from the DVD-ROM drive to the AUX input of the sound card.

One other thing I have to mention is that one of my CD-ROM games for MS-DOS, Stonekeep, had some issues with the Goldstar CD-ROM drive at the top of the tower.  Certain conversations that take place during the game would get interrupted by the Goldstar drive spinning up.  It's not so with the Samsung drive.  However, to get Stonekeep to run using the drive installed today, I had to reinstall the program from the disc as it was asking for the E: drive.  (Changing the line in the config file in the game's directory didn't help for some reason.)

[Geek-9pm]

It is annoying to see my DVD in the midst of drives and partitions.
Looks messy
Just assign your CD/DVD as drive "K" or beyond ...
and windows will assign consecutive letters for...
new partitions, drives and removable storage

[Salmon Trout]

It is annoying to see my DVD in the midst of drives and partitions.
Looks messy
Just assign your CD/DVD as drive "K" or beyond ...
and windows will assign consecutive letters for...
new partitions, drives and removable storage

Mine is X: and my swap file is on Z: which is hidden

[Computer_Commando]

hmm, when I insert an audio CD in my laptop, it now states
DVD RW Drive (F:)
Audio CD
My guess, is it depends on the OS. XP was released I believe just before DVD went mainstream, so it kind of only half-understands it; Vista and 7 were released afterwards so have full understanding.

With no disc inserted, My Computer says DVD-RAM Drive, WinXP-Pro SP3.  Could have something to do with drive firmware?

[Salmon Trout]

With no disc inserted, My Computer says DVD-RAM Drive

Is it an LG? Are you talking about the volume name or the drive type?

[BC_Programmer]

With no disc inserted, My Computer says DVD-RAM Drive, WinXP-Pro SP3.  Could have something to do with drive firmware?

XP says DVD-RAM for my LG drive as well When I connect it via VMWare; the host Vista System recognizes it as DVD-RW, and So does Windows 7 under VMWare.

[Computer_Commando]

Is it an LG? Are you talking about the volume name or the drive type?

HP.  Neither.  See pic below.

[Saving space, attachment deleted by admin]

[Salmon Trout]

HP.  Neither.  See pic below.

I see you have either Icon or Thumbnail view selected in My Computer (I'm not sure which). As you will see (I hope) I have Details selected and you can see there is a "Name" column which shows the volume name for drives and would show the volume name for an optical disk if there was one inserted. As there is no disk in the drive, it shows "DVD-RAM drive" for the name, and as you will also see, "CD Drive" in the "Type" column. It is this "Type" entry that I have been referring to in my previous posts.

[BC_Programmer]

OK, in that case, Vista shows "CD Drive".

Actually, the reason for this is quite simple; chances are, Explorer is simply using the "GetDriveType() API call to acquire the device type. referring to the MSDN documentation on the function, and we see that the options are relatively limited, and don't extend to anything specific about a drive.

[patio]

Isn't a RAM drive used for splitting firewood ? ?

[Geek-9pm]

Isn't a RAM drive used for splitting firewood ? ?

Or Coco Nuts.