bios install

[Allan]

There are any number of things I want to say, but I'll just leave it at: glad you got it all sorted out.

[BC_Programmer]

If he's running a 286 he'd have to worry about a BIOS infection....unlikely.   

The 286 BIOS was a ROM. unchangable by any means.

[Geek-9pm]

The 286 BIOS was a ROM. unchangable by any means.

True. But somebody is going to ask if you can do it...
In A BATCH File!! 

[patio]

The 286 BIOS was a ROM. unchangable by any means.

All of them ? ?

[Quantos]

All of them ? ?

No, not all of them.  There were some that were flashable, but they weren't software flashable.

[BC_Programmer]

The 486 was the first set of systems where the BIOS was changable on-chip; even then, you had to remove the chip, expose it to UV light, and reprogram the thing. Actual Flash ROM's in PCs didn't become widespread until late into the Pentium Era.

The Original IBM PC, AT-286 and AT-386 PCs implemented their ROMs via true-to-their-name ROM chips; high-end late model 386 PCs might have implemented their BIOS as EPROM chips (UV erasable) but EEPROM chips didn't become something to expect in a average PC until around 1995/1996.

I of course speak of PCs... since the 286 is really a processor, there are probably a lot of applications of the 286 being used in things like barcode scanners and so forth that do use a programmable ROM.... that being said it isn't strictly speaking a BIOS in that instance anyway.

Additionally, one must define what it means to "flash" the BIOS. "Flashing" the BIOS really sort of requires, well, a Flash BIOS. Flash BIOS chips use Flash Memory- EEPROMs- which didn't appear until 1995-96. the first programmable BIOS chips, the PROMs, arrived relatively early (these were present in 286 PCs) however it really didn't matter, you couldn't change what was on them anyway, they were only written to once. Just made production cheaper, since no longer did the actual circuitry itself contain the data, but rather a more abstract ability for manufacturers to "burn" the BIOS code onto the chip. Only once, though.

EPROM chips were (as I mentioned before) erasable with UV light over their little window, but you still needed a BIOS programming station in order to write a new one to it. Certainly not something you can do in-place.

[Quantos]

There were programmable chips on the 286 platform.  They were the first EPROM chips.  I know, I worked with them at NWI.

[Geek-9pm]

Nice history lesson.
Yeah, me too. Used to program them things.
But, back to topic. When did a virus get into a OS and do something bad to the Flash BIOS of a popular PC?  And when did they make it hard to to do? Or is it still a real threat?

Here is an article from March 27, 2009 by  Marcus Yam
New BIOS Virus Withstands HDD Wipes

So, are we missing something here? A system based on the i386 and beyond should stop any process that tries to use a hardware function that is disallowed. Or so we are told.

           Now I really am confused.   

[Quantos]

Yeah, see that's the million dollar question.  I've heard of virus' that infect the BIOS, but not once have I ever seen valid data to prove it.  It might be an urban legend or just incredibly rare.

[BC_Programmer]

only one I've ever heard of is the one Geek stated; the chernobyl virus, and like he said it only works on specific motherboards and operating systems.

There is literally no way to even access the BIOS without direct hardware access; and Windows NT versions give that out pretty sparingly. In order to infect the BIOS, a payload delivery system would literally need to install a device driver, reboot the system, and then the device driver would need to be specifically programmed to know about various chipsets, and motherboard configurations and the where the patch the BIOS code to infect it. And even then, there is a major roadblock in the way; almost all flashable motherboards (since around 2000 have a jumper that needs to be set before the BIOS will accept a flash.

Really- the effort doesn't have enough of a gain. Malware writers time is far better spent (relatively speaking) writing spyware programs and other stupid things like that.

Here is an article from March 27, 2009 by  Marcus Yam
New BIOS Virus Withstands HDD Wipes

This cannot be true; there are a number of issues with this:

first, a Google search only brings up tomshardware with really anything about that; if this was actually a threat, then I imagine it would be on more then 2 sites. Additionally, Python is a script language; what they are saying is that it's also possible in perl and any number of script languages. The best that appears to be done with python as far as malice goes seems to be limited to infecting other script files, this is probably because the people who are good enough to make something really scary are off doing something more productive, you know, having reached puberty and all that.

[Quantos]

So an urban legend?

[patio]

Naaaaahhh...

Just BS.

[Geek-9pm]

... Few software is so fundamental and at the same time, so closed,
as the BIOS. UEFI [UEFIORG], the new firmware interface, promises
open-standards and improved security.
But meanwhile, we need more people looking, reversing and
understanding this crucial piece of software.
It has bugs, it can contain malicious code, and most importantly,
BIOS can have complete control of your computer. Years ago people
regained part of that control with the open-source revolution, but
users won't have complete control until they know what's lurking
behind closed-source firmware.
If you want to improve or start researching your own BIOS and
need more resources, an excellent place to start would be
the WIM'S BIOS High-Tech Forum [WBHTF], where very low-level
technical discussions take place.  ...

BC_Programmer, don't underestimate the threat. The above was one of hundreds of similar references I have found. Do some more research please.

[BC_Programmer]

Sounds more like a open-source rant.

OMG! the BIOS HAZ COMPLEET CONTROLL! OH NOES THIS IS A THREAT!

No it's not. the BIOS does. And technically it is "open-source" since I'm pretty sure it's all written in assembly. DOS boot disk, dump the ROM addresses, bobs your uncle you have a ASM listing.

Of course it's a THREAT if something malicious get's into the BIOS, That's why it requires an actual, physical change to the hardware to enable writes to the EEPROM.

[Geek-9pm]

That's why it requires an actual, physical change to the hardware to enable writes to the EEPROM.

We are talking about the FLASH chip found on many popular motherboards. Many do not have a physical way to stop  a write operation, except cut the trace on the motherboard. Not recommended.

BTW: Python can be compiled into machine code.