Is it Possible to Get 5.25" Floppy Disk Drive to Function in an XP PC?

[veritasffg]

I have numerous single- and double-sided old 5.25" floppy disks which relate to DOS-based programs I wrote many years ago, and still use today.  I would like to access these disks (for source code, compilers, linkers, batch files, etc.) in order to make modifications to the programs.  I have determined that the drives are still available from various sources, and some even have the necessary ribbon cables included.   I have not determined, however, whether those floppy drive ribbon (or data) cables will connect to motherboards in use on XP based machines (machines which range in age from perhaps three to ten years old).  Before I purchase the drive, I'd like to get a definitive answer to this question. 

So - if any of you out there have long memories, or better yet, recent related experience, and can provide an answer to this question, it would be very helpful to me.  If I remember correctly, the old floppy drives had connections from the drives which resemble PCI adapter board connections, rather than pin connections.  My hope is that the older ribbon cables use the same pin connections to the motherboard as more current 3.5" floppy drives.  Maybe there's even a way to rig an external version of a 5.25" drive to work just long enough for me to convert the old disks to CDs.

Thanks very much.

[Geek-9pm]

You can put both 5.25 and 5.6 drives on the same cable.

Also,  external adapter for floppy to USB  could work.

[Dead Reckon]

It should work fine, but that doesn't really mean it will. Try to find the newest of your 5.25" floppy drives, that's about the only advice I can say for sure.

[rthompson80819]

Personally, I've always had problems with the 5.6" drives.

[Geek-9pm]

Personally, I've always had problems with the 5.6" drives.

The 5.25 are much better.
A Brief History of Floppy Drives.

[veritasffg]

Thanks to those who have posted.  I'm not at all familiar with 5.6" drives, and I'm almost certain that my research hasn't identified any type of adapter to convert an internal 5.25" floppy drive to USB power.  If Geek-9pm has additional info or details on this, please post it here.

Thanks again.

[rthompson80819]

I was just giving Geek a hard time.  I'm sure he meant to  say 3.5".

[Dead Reckon]

Thanks to those who have posted.  I'm not at all familiar with 5.6" drives, and I'm almost certain that my research hasn't identified any type of adapter to convert an internal 5.25" floppy drive to USB power.  If Geek-9pm has additional info or details on this, please post it here.

Thanks again.

If you want to convert it to USB power, that's easy, it runs off of a standard molex or borg plug (peripheral or floppy), interfacing the floppy PATA to USB is the hard part. Your better off hooking it up internally for a temporary setup.

[veritasffg]

To Dead Reckon:

You're right of course.  Molex to USB is no problem, and I should have said exactly what you said.  Nevertheless, if adapting the 5.25" floppy drive's signal cable to USB were possible, that would simplify things for my purposes.

[truenorth]

Seems this is not as unusual an issue as i would have thought.Have a look at the site i have here http://ask.metafilter.com/19449/How-to-make-an-external-525-floppy-drive
and i believe there are a number of answers that will allow you to achieve your objective. It also deals with the likely issues that you will encounter. good luck,truenorth

[Geek-9pm]

You will have  problems with 5.35 floppy drives. When this happens come back here and  some old buzzard can help you.

[Computer_Commando]

The data & power interfaces for 5.25in drives are the same as for the 3.5in drive.  3.5in form factor was derived from the 5.25.  I haven't seen one in years but I'm sure it's the same.

BIOS's support all form factors.
360K, 5.25 in
1.2M, 5.25 in
720K, 3.5 in
1.44M, 3.5 in
2.88M, 3.5 in

http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/29123485/525-floppy-drive.aspx

[veritasffg]

For Computer_Commando:

If I understand you correctly, You're saying that, if I have a floppy drive (5.25"), and a cable which correctly attaches to that drive, the other end of that cable should terminate in the same pin connector which interfaces with the more-recent 3.5" drives.  This is exactly the answer I've been looking for - but I gather that you are not completely certain of this.  Is this correct?

Thanks.  And thanks also to truenorth for the excellent information he furnished.

[patio]

Computer Commando is correct...

[Geek-9pm]

The 5.25 drive has a jumper to set it as the second drive.

It may also have either a resistor pack or a jumper for termination
If you don't know what this means, just ignore it.

[veritasffg]

Okay - it appears this thing may be do-able.  Thanks again to all who posted.  I'm ordering a used 5.25" floppy drive, with the necessary ribbon cable.  Now, I have to try to set up a DOS 6.2 machine - that should be trip down memory lane.  This forum has been so helpful to me in several matters - I may have to trouble you all again with a new issue.  If anyone has suggestions on this, my email address is available in my profile.

I very much appreciate all the help from the forum participants.

[Geek-9pm]

DOS 6.2 or DOS 6.22 have drive size limit.
Avoid putting it on a large drive. Find an old 2 GB or less drive.

[veritasffg]

For Geek-9pm:

That's a very good point I probably would have missed.  Do you suppose use of a larger drive with only a 2 gb partition formatted (and the balance of the drive unallocated) would work?

[Geek-9pm]

Yes, that should work. Make just one primary partition, 2GB or less. leave the rest unallocated. Do you have 6.2 or 6.22? There is some difference. Ms got into trouble with 6.2 because of an infringement or something somebody else had done. They may have also improved the FAT16  structure. That was so long ago. 

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/118335

[veritasffg]

I have both Dos 6.2 and 6.22, if I recall correctly.  Thanks for the Microsoft Dos partitioning article.  It seems to me that I also recall Microsoft had something called Dos Stepup files, but I'll have to research that a little to nail down exactly what that relates to.  This promises to be quite an undertaking - getting back into a DOS programming environment after many years.

Thanks for the tips.

[veritasffg]

Okay all you old hardware guys.  I located an old combination 3.5" and 5.25" floppy drive, and installed the dual unit in a Dell 4400 (first disabling the original 3.5" drive, and replacing its cable from the motherboard with the cable which fits the dual drive.  Problem is - the PC only recognizes the 3.5" side of the dual drive, and does not see the 5.25" drive.  I was hopeful that, as a couple of posters have indicated, current BIOS systems still see the 5.25" single and dual density disks - but apparently not.  By the way, I have a fall back position - I removed the dual drive from a circa 1995 DOS machine, but of course I am limited to use of a very small hard drive if I replace the dual unit in that machine.

If anyone has any further suggestions or remedies, I would be very interested in receiving them.

Thanks.

[Computer_Commando]

You have to go into the BIOS and enable the "B" drive.  "None" is the default, unless you change it to 360K, 5.25 in.

[BC_Programmer]

You have to go into the BIOS and enable the "B" drive.  "None" is the default, unless you change it to 360K, 5.25 in.

unless the 5-1/4" drive is from before 1987 or so it's probably the 1.2MB variety.

[veritasffg]

Thanks to BC_Programmer & Computer Commando.

This is a Dell 4400, and the BIOS only permits enabling/disabling the floppy controller, and setting the configuration of Diskette Drive A.  There is no option for Drive B, or any other diskettte drive designation, in the setup.  I suppose the obvious answer is find a computer which offers a Drive B diskette setup - but how do you do that?  Since this is a dual drive, I even tried to set up Drive A as a 5.25" 1.2 mb, but that only applies to the 3.25" Floppy, which is on top in the dual configuration.  The cabling to the dual drive has a sub-ribbon cable which runs from the 5.25" to the 3.5" drive.  Maybe I'll try to unplug that section of the cable to see if that will default to activation of the 5.25".  Think that might work? 

 Thanks for trying to help - but this effort seems to continually run into road blocks.

[Computer_Commando]

...I suppose the obvious answer is find a computer which offers a Drive B diskette setup - but how do you do that?  Since this is a dual drive, I even tried to set up Drive A as a 5.25" 1.2 mb, but that only applies to the 3.25" Floppy, which is on top in the dual configuration.  The cabling to the dual drive has a sub-ribbon cable which runs from the 5.25" to the 3.5" drive.  Maybe I'll try to unplug that section of the cable to see if that will default to activation of the 5.25".  Think that might work?

The computer I'm on right now (Biostar motherboard, nothing fancy) has the option in the BIOS.  Because Dell 4400 did not offer dual FDD's, the option is missing.
I figured it had to have a second ribbon cable, which drive is on the end of the cable?
FDD cables have a twist in the cable, the drive at the end near the twist is "A".  Sounds like 3.5 is at the end,  You'll have to unplug the small cable and move the main cable to it's place.  Your Dell will only allow 1 FDD.

Your BIOS:  http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4400/syssetup.htm#1097777

[veritasffg]

Yep:  that's the BIOS setup of the Dell 4400.  Your suggestion about switching the cables would be interesting (and you know there's a but coming), but the 5.25" does not have a pin connection - instead it has what I would call a "card" connector (much like say a PCI card) which inserts into a female connector (which is the only connector on the cable coming from the motherboard).  The sub-ribbon (twisted) cable to the 3.5" side is more or less permanently connected from the 5.25" to the 3.5" - although, as mentioned above, I believe I can unplug the twisted ribbon connector from the 3.5" drive.  Something tells me, however, that without provision for a B floppy drive, I've had the schnitzel.

[Computer_Commando]

This is the cable you need to find.


http://www.pc-doctors.com/cable-diagrams/fd.htm

He's got 5 remaining:  http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=7368+CB

[veritasffg]

Wow - Computer_Commando, you really provide a service.  Thanks for all the very specific info.  If I had a single-unit 5.25" drive, my problem would already be solved.  Alas, the drive is a DUAL 3.5" and 5.25" drive, built on a single chassis.  The ONLY external connection to the drive is what appears to me to be a card (circuit board-like) which connects to a female connector (the 5.25" Drive "A" Connector on your photo) on the ribbon cable from the motherboard.  There is NO way to connect directly to the 3.5" side of the drive, since both its power and data connections are built into the unit.  I may be able to unplug the data connection to the 3.5" drive,  and possibly have the 5.25" side become the default A drive, but I doubt it.  I suspect I'm going to be required to find a computer with BIOS settings for both A and B Floppy Drives.

Thanks for all your help.

[veritasffg]

By the way - I've searched quite a bit on the internet, and found references to pin settings for this drive (Epson 800 or 880), but the links to the documents are now obsolete.  I believe there is a jumper configuration block in a difficult to access area on the rear of this drive - but can find no documentation whatever on the net.

[soybean]

If you can not get this to work, here's another option for transferring data from those old 5.25 inch floppy discs to a newer format: http://www.datarecoverymasters.com/floppydiskcopy.php.  However, the cost might be discouraging.

[veritasffg]

Okay, boys and girls.  As stated above, on many occasions, I found links to specs/jumper settings/other docs relative to my dual floppy drive - but all the links were 10 to 20 years old, and are now obsolete.  In sheer desperation, I kept modifying my search terms slightly, until, believe it or not, i came up with a still-valid link to the jumper settings for this bad boy.  I set the jumpers to identify Drive A as 5.25", and Drive B (the BIOS has no provision for Drive B, but I don't care) as 3.5".

Now I can copy all the contents of my 20-25 year old floppy disks (there are a ton of them - I used to do a lot of programming) to a spare hard drive I set up in the Dell 4400, and I have 35 gb of space for it, instead of about 1 gb on the old DOS machine which originally housed the dual floppy drive.  When I get everything transferred to the hard drive, I'll make permanent copies on either 3.5" floppies, or CDs, or both.

Thanks so much to all of you on this forum for your invaluable suggestions and technical advice, especially Computer Commando and BC Programmer.  Computer Hope really rocks!

[Computer_Commando]

Cool!  Post the link, maybe someone else will Google and find it here.

[veritasffg]

That's a great idea. 

Click for info on the Epson SD-800/880 Dual Floppy Disk Drive: https://support.dell.com/support/edocs/dta/44078/

[Computer_Commando]

Of all places to find that, on Dell's website!  I don't think I ever saw a Dell computer that had a combo drive like that.  BTW, since you have a Dell computer, just enter the Service Tag, and it will tell all about that particular computer, i.e., shipped configuration, ship date, manuals, but no personal information.  Every computer they ever made is there.

[veritasffg]

I never saw such a drive either - until I found a circa 1995 Gateway 2000 (incidentally, the tallest PC tower I've ever seen).  The Dell 4400 and this drive have no connection whatever; the Dell was just available as a candidate for installation of the drive.

[Computer_Commando]

Dell wouldn't have it on their website, unless one of their computers used it.