Laptop security Programs

[ImnoGuru]

Thank you for looking at my thread today.

Stolen computers are hard to replace... (well the data on them really not the computer itself) and I heard of programs that take photo's of the user when they boot it up.

I have researched a few of these programs, but they are not quite what I want.
Prey is free one, IPCamviewer, Firefound and a few others that I have looked at, don’t really do what I want.

I have a Dell Inspiron 1525 laptop, running Windows Vista Home SP 2, Intel Core 2 Duo CPU, T6500 2.10 GHz 2.10GHz (Do they say 2.10 twice because it’s a Duo Core Chip?). 3 Gb RAM and 32 bit O/S and a 280 Gb hard drive.

When I boot it up all the lights flash as it progresses through the checking procedure and it goes through the startup procedure to initialize.
I'm looking for a way for my laptop to take a photo during the startup procedure, every time the system checks the webcam.

Youve probably seen the webcam light blink during the startup, thats the instant that I want the photo taken, and then maybe on a regular basis say 5 seconds or so.

So I have been looking for a way to set the laptop up, to take a photo during the startup procedure when it checks the webcam.
Can someone tell me if there is a way to set this up for my laptop/s. (The other laptops are Dells as well, similar size and processors)

If it doesnt exist then maybe we can make a joint venture with one of you programmers out there, of writting the program and selling it to the world.... We'll make a killing.. (Must remind myself to take out a copyright regarding this idea.)

Thank you for your assistance. ImnoGuru. ©

[Geek-9pm]

ImnoGuru, I respectfully decline your offer.
I have my own security plan I am working g non.

My plan is to place a custom Logo in the BIOS. This logo has a picture and text that will encourage the person to not try and sell the laptop, but instead make some effort to return it to the owner.

Granted, this does not result in a conviction, but can reduce theft over a period of time. When all laptops are thus equipped, casual laptop theft will go to zero. (But does not stop organized crime.)

There is another method used by some big companies that results in a very high n conviction rate. But for obvious reasons I will not divulge the details here. I will not name the companies, but one has the initials are IBM and you can try and guess who it is.

[patio]

If i got a laptop that had a BIOS message telling me to return it nicely i'd probably flash the BIOS and continue on my merry way...
How on earth do you actually expect this to discourage theives ? ?

[Geek-9pm]

If i got a laptop that had a BIOS message telling me to return it nicely i'd probably flash the BIOS and continue on my merry way...
How on earth do you actually expect this to discourage thieves ? ?

Patio.. It has worked.
Most of the thieves I not will not spend an hour on removing anything that identifies the owner. And if the had the skills to flash a BIOS, then in that case they  could get a job.
What kind of thieves do you know?

[Geek-9pm]

Source materiel for my first post.
http://www.lenovo.com/news/us/en/2009/09/lost-and-found.html

[quaxo]

Most of the thieves I not will not spend an hour on removing anything that identifies the owner. And if the had the skills to flash a BIOS, then in that case they  could get a job.

Sounds like you only know lazy thieves.

Unless they actually tried to boot it before stealing it (or saw it booted) they wouldn't know that any security was in place. If everyone was doing as you suggested, thieves wouldn't just stop stealing laptops, they would adapt. And if it were just a "casual" thief, they'd be more likely to just throw it out or put it away somewhere than they would be to return it or attempt to sell it while it still bears the owner's name, so this still doesn't help the owner very much.

Security measures have never been a real deterrent, no matter what the product. Despite advancements in security for devices, cars, motorcycles, credit cards, etc. etc. etc. these things still get stolen because there is always a way around the security measures. As long as there is someone smart enough to come up with new security measures, there is someone smart enough to crack them.

Anyway, back to laptops. You can never secure the hardware 100%. You can, however, secure your data in a variety of ways. Using FDE (Full Disk Encryption) along with PBA (Pre-Boot Authentication) and biometric (fingerprint, face recognition, etc.) or security key (smart card, token, etc.) protection will make things harder and help protect your data, but it won't protect the computer physically.

[Geek-9pm]

Sounds like you only know lazy thieves.

er, uh... What other kinds are there?

As to the  deterrence of thief,  ask low offers about this. If  a  laptop is out of sight or physically locked, it can help. The link below is a general consideration and asks for registration before you see full report.
Theft and Deterrence

A message on the BIOS  screen can influence a thief or would-be buyer. It all depends on what it says. I am not going to give a specific example, that would ruin the whole concept.

It would have to be something novel  and nun expected. Use your imagination. Now use it some more. If hi is a thief, he is a criminal.

Think about it. To catch a thief...?

[quaxo]

Doesn't matter what the message says, unless it's offering some reward for the item's return. Flash the BIOS with free resources easily found online and sell the laptop. It's not much of a deterrent.

Aside from that, the rest of your post didn't make much sense or have any relevance. Think about it.

[Geek-9pm]

Doesn't matter what the message says, unless it's offering some reward for the item's return. Flash the BIOS with free resources easily found online and sell the laptop. It's not much of a deterrent.

That does not make much sense. You are stating a message that you have not seen has no value because it can be erased. The ability ton erase the message is not the issue. The content of the message could indeed be a reward. The reward could be nor more that what the laptop is worth

Where did the OP ever say the security issue was only the cost or resale value of the laptop?  Security is a broad term. Does that make sense to you? The data on the laptop is often more important that the laptop itself.

Stolen computers are hard to replace... (well the data on them really not the computer itself) and I heard of programs that take photo's of the user when they boot it up.

Do I need to spell data for you? D A T A .
It you have never heard of the term, Google it.

OP proposed taking a picture of the thief.
My answer is to give the thief a message.  A message that would make him want to return the laptop.

Something like his is already in place. Thee is a service where anybody can return a 'lost' laptop and no questions are asked. It is a nationwide service company, not a police sting.

Taking a photo of the culprit is not, IMHO, a good idea. The 'finder' of the laptop would be incited to destroy the laptop.

Instead give  a erogenous reward through am agency that is not part of a law enforcement unit. Private. discreet, effective. Contact is made through a 800 number that can be called from and telephone.

The main objective is the recovery of stolen data. Not he stolen laptop. The private agency could offer to replace the hard drive with a new unit and let the 'finder' keep the laptop and receive a good 'finder's fee.'

This would be a strong deterrent to keeping stolen DATA.

[quaxo]

The data on the laptop is often more important that the laptop itself.

As I already said:

Anyway, back to laptops. You can never secure the hardware 100%. You can, however, secure your data in a variety of ways. Using FDE (Full Disk Encryption) along with PBA (Pre-Boot Authentication) and biometric (fingerprint, face recognition, etc.) or security key (smart card, token, etc.) protection will make things harder and help protect your data, but it won't protect the computer physically.

But thanks for remaking my point, as you often do.

I'm looking for a way for my laptop to take a photo during the startup procedure, every time the system checks the webcam.

Youve probably seen the webcam light blink during the startup, thats the instant that I want the photo taken, and then maybe on a regular basis say 5 seconds or so.

The system isn't really "checking" the cam. Most cams, even when built in to a laptop, are USB devices, and the light turns on briefly when the device first receives power. In order for the cam to work, said program would need to load a driver for it, as most cams work differently. This driver would be specific to an OS, which at the point you're thinking of hasn't been loaded yet. This is part of the reason that many programs that do such a thing don't do so until Windows has started. The cam's hardware and computer's BIOS would need to be made specifically to carry out this task.

Then there's the issue of loading the OS, at which point the cam would have to be handed over to the OS to load drivers for it. During that time, the cam would have to be out of use. If it's not handed over to the OS, the cam won't work in other programs if the user needed it, such as Skype or Windows Live Messenger.

These are just but a couple of reasons it wouldn't work the way you're describing and likely why it hasn't been done before. Even if someone did come up with a way to do it, I think it would be a novelty more than anything, eventually dying out like fingerprint scanners on laptops did shortly after they were introduced.

[Geek-9pm]

Anyway, back to laptops. You can never secure the hardware 100%

That is an empty statement. Yes, it is self-apparent, but adds nothing to the topic. You can make that kind of broad statement about anything. That is a form of fatalism. Like 'Why do I need an education, I am going to die eventually.'
 
That is  also like a friend of mine that said: "Even if I locked my car while shopping, they could  break into in anyway."
So she didn't. And they did.

As for the web cam idea, it should be a part of the computer firmware, not a windows application that could be easily defeated. The OEM would install a custom BIOS at the time of fabrication. It would be transplant to any observer.  It would not be listed ans any service by the OS and would not have a disable feature in BIOS.

Of course, mass-distribution of that kind of product is not feasible until there is a big demand. HP, are you reading this?

[quaxo]

Again, thanks for repeating what I already stated. 

That is an empty statement. Yes, it is self-apparent, but adds nothing to the topic. You can make that kind of broad statement about anything. That is a form of fatalism. Like 'Why do I need an education, I am going to die eventually.'

Quit nitpicking. I'm not going to bother discussing this point with you anymore since all you seem to be doing is disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing and then repeating what I've already said.

[ImnoGuru]

Thanks everyone for the input, and WOW haven't I hit a nerve with this one. There are some very valid responses so far and thank you for adding to my education.

I can see you all have a good grasp on what it is I am talking about. Great discussion everyone, patio, quaxo & Geek-9pm.

quaxo & Geek-9pm are on the money with my idea. Its not relevant that the computer may or may not be stolen at any point in time, just the concept of having the photo every time the bios is activated. That way you can "see" Uncle Arthur sitting at your computer while your down at the "Bowling Alley" and know that he was the culprit for that *censored* virus that installed from the porn site. hehehe 

The data should be backed up and any good user would do their backups regularly... so no problem there either.
As for the return of the laptop.. well stolen in my book is gone.. never to be seen again.... so forget getting that sucker back any time soon. It doesn't really matter. If however, you get a photo, then you might be able to get that thief of the streets.
If you have a photo of the people standing in front of it every time it is activated, you would be able to go to the cops and say, "Here's a photo of the person or persons that are sitting in front of my computer... Are they known to you. Here's a copy of their photo.. ask around at the local Cash Converters see if they can identify them."

Most people don't know how "long" it takes for a computer to fire up, so the bios can load the program and then continue loading windows after having taken the first 20 seconds of photos.
The next step of course for these photo's is, that after windows starts if you like, the photo's are automatically sent to an email address or mobile device with the content.

 give the thief a message.  A message that would make him want to return the laptop.

If i got a laptop that had a BIOS message telling me to return it nicely i'd probably flash the BIOS and continue on my merry way...
How on earth do you actually expect this to discourage theives ? ?

Just the mere word "thief" generates the impression to me that they don't give a stuff about other peoples possessions, so I cant see a great many of them suffering from a conscience attack and getting on a bus to give it back.

The 'finder' of the laptop would be incited to destroy the laptop.

As for the web cam idea, it should be a part of the computer firmware, not a windows application that could be easily defeated. The OEM would install a custom BIOS at the time of fabrication. It would be transparent to any observer.  It would not be listed as any service by the OS and would not have a disable feature in BIOS.

Quite a possability they would destroy it.. if they knew about it.

That's why my idea of having the photo's taken covertly during the initialization and sending them, unknowingly to the owner or a predefined email address.
Most computers and mobile devices these days have either wi-fi and or GPS modules, so the possibility of getting a location through say Google earth or similar is a reality as well.

Anyway, back to laptops. You can never secure the hardware 100%. You can, however, secure your data in a variety of ways. Using FDE (Full Disk Encryption) along with PBA (Pre-Boot Authentication) and biometric (fingerprint, face recognition, etc.) or security key (smart card, token, etc.) protection will make things harder and help protect your data, but it won't protect the computer physically.

Certainly if I were in the situation of being a company dealing with high profile information, I would definitely use a higher degree of data encryption as suggested.

So at the end of the day, the idea is valid, but the bios is in need of modification to support the actual taking of the photo before Windows installs, and from what I read between the lines in all this, is, manufacturers are in charge of determining the Bios parameters, and its not just a programmer that would build such a program.

Its a great place for learning at Computerhope. Thanks again ImnoGuru.

Oh by the way, just in case someone reading this is curious about my firefox question earlier this year...  Is F/F slowing my computer or something else?
.. that computer died soon after that and I recently had a power supply replaced and its as yet untested. The 5 volt supply failed.
 

[Geek-9pm]

ImnoGuru,
Thank  you for coming back and doing a good conclusion.