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Author Topic: Third Party Cookies Explained  (Read 7951 times)

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BC_Programmer

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Third Party Cookies Explained
« on: May 21, 2012, 01:55:12 PM »
http://www.ravelrumba.com/blog/third-party-cookies/

Nice article on the subject of cookies.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

patio

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Re: Third Party Cookies Explained
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2012, 04:10:18 PM »
Good stuff...Thanx
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

truenorth



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    Re: Third Party Cookies Explained
    « Reply #2 on: May 21, 2012, 05:15:25 PM »
    Agree--but i see no reference to the embedded chocolate chips which while true they do not upgrade the malware level--but they sure can increase the addiction level of the cookie.

    Allan

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    Re: Third Party Cookies Explained
    « Reply #3 on: May 22, 2012, 05:37:20 AM »
    Semantics. He says there's no significant difference between 1st & 3rd party cookies and then goes on to say that third party cookies are obtained from sites / locations other than the one to which you are logged on. THAT's a significant difference in my book and the reason my browsers are always set to accept first party cookies but reject 3rd party cookies.

    BC_Programmer

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    Re: Third Party Cookies Explained
    « Reply #4 on: May 22, 2012, 02:18:39 PM »
    Semantics. He says there's no significant difference between 1st & 3rd party cookies and then goes on to say that third party cookies are obtained from sites / locations other than the one to which you are logged on. THAT's a significant difference in my book and the reason my browsers are always set to accept first party cookies but reject 3rd party cookies.
    yeah, I thought that was weird myself. There is no difference, except for this. But then there is a difference.


    His point is that, operationally, There is no difference; whether a cookie is first-party or third party is something that requires context. If you go to twitter.com, twitter.com cookies are first party cookies.
    When you go to another site that uses the twitter API, such as (in his example) huffington post, or a wide variety of other sites, those same twitter cookies are now third party cookies, <BUT> they are being accessed by twitter itself. Much like how nobody really distinguishes between first party images (images on the same server) and third party images (images hosted elsewhere). The part that matters of course is that cookies are typically set and retrieved by browser-side javascript, as well as passed along in HTTP headers. Basically, if you go to a site that uses the twitter API:

    -the browser loads the site. It sends it any cookies indexed for that site. The site itself doesn't actually get any cookies for twitter on it's own.
    -a javascript or other client-side script, typically provided via the copy-paste code of twitter, references files on platform.twitter.com. The browser loads that data using a HTTP get request, sending the twitter cookies in the header. But the twitter cookies are being sent to twitter, so how are they third-party?

    The reason people find this to be a problem is that advertisements can track user movements across the web if their ads embed that sort of logic; each usage of the advertisement would have the same code to retrieve some data from a ad server (doubleclick or whatever) and thus each one can send in the current documentURL as a cookie, as well as perhaps a unique ID for that person to be stored as a local cookie. That server can then index all the pages a given IP has visited that contains ads in that fashion, and further logic can perform analytics to target future advertisements for ads that send in that cookie. There are of course two ways to combat this- the first is to disable third party cookies, but then a lot of various platform technologies stop working; things like facebook or twitter widgets won't always work properly. The basic idea in that case is that code referenced on other servers on that page won't get any cookies for their site. (ie, even though the js refers to platform.twitter.com and loads files from there, the browser won't send the platform.twitter.com cookies). Sometimes this can be an added bonus, since those types of widgets are rather annoying sometimes. And this prevents ad exchanges from collecting any data about you.

    I have to say I've sort of flip-flopped on the subject of targeted advertisements, which most of those things are aimed at. I used to think it was draconian and big-brothery, but now I don't think so anymore. For example, most advertisements I see are about Information technology related products regardless of where I am seeing the ad, which, even though I might  never actually buy it or click them or anything of that sort, I much prefer being shown advertisements for Visual Studio add-ins than feminine hygiene products. At the very least it makes a change from the old Television commercial method of "throw all commercials at everybody and see what sticks, then make up some analytics data to make companies think it is effective". There was loose targeting of course in that ads were targeted sometimes around the program for which they comprised a commercial break, but there isn't any actual hard data for advertisers to use to determine effectiveness.

    Naturally there are many people who feel advertisement is inherently evil. And block any and all ads, despite the implicit moral contract between the content provider and the person viewing said content. For a time I blocked ads on my own site until I removed them all because a few cents a month wasn't worth it. Of course the whole ad-blocking thing is a completely separate can-of-worms that is really only tangential to HTTP cookies. Now it's when ad agencies try to workaround things like adblockplus that you get problems, since sometimes that can fall into the realm of exploit code to find browser implementation problems or issues with the add-in that they can exploit to get around user preferences. That's crossing a line, I think.
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Allan

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    Re: Third Party Cookies Explained
    « Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 02:29:05 PM »
    Yeah, ad tracking doesn't bother me. It is what it is. But downloading a cookie from a 3rd party does bother me so I disable that ability.

    BC_Programmer

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    Re: Third Party Cookies Explained
    « Reply #6 on: May 22, 2012, 04:11:38 PM »
    But downloading a cookie from a 3rd party does bother me
    First question.. Why?

    Also, Cookies aren't downloaded. They are set by JS code or as part of the server HTTP response (set-cookie) and stored by the browser (or not, according to browser preferences) for future reference, then sent to the applicable server in the HTTP header when requesting pages for which the domain matches. A site that uses, say, the twitter platform API, can't access twitter's cookies. the thing setting and changing twitter-related cookies is twitter itself. The only difference if using the twitter platform API is that the actual site that is using the widget is not twitter.com. the widget itself is hosted by twitter.com, and only twitter.com sees the cookies. It can't see cookies for the site that has the widget, either.

    Additionally, this "cookie-based" method is the only way that ad tracking can really occur. Google Adsense tracks user movements through pages that implement Google adsense by setting cookies; which on those sites will be "third party" cookies. So, fundamentally, if you have a problem with third party cookies, you also have a problem with ad tracking/placement, since that's the only way it works. This also applies to numerous other services, such as Google analytics, which doesn't work if visitors have disabled third party cookies. (not that that is intrinsically a bad thing either though)


    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Allan

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    Re: Third Party Cookies Explained
    « Reply #7 on: May 22, 2012, 04:15:07 PM »
    A file is downloaded to my computer. From my perspective that is the cookie (whether or not it technically is). I simply don't want anything downloaded to my system from a location other than those I choose. If you're looking for a more logical response, I can't help you ;)

    BC_Programmer

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    Re: Third Party Cookies Explained
    « Reply #8 on: May 22, 2012, 04:20:11 PM »
    A file is downloaded to my computer. From my perspective that is the cookie (whether or not it technically is). I simply don't want anything downloaded to my system from a location other than those I choose. If you're looking for a more logical response, I can't help you ;)

    Oh OK, that makes sense to me. One could say the javascript is downloaded, and since the javascript sets the cookie, the cookie was downloaded precariously. Any widget placed on a site could easily track somebody, and it would be impossible to know without checking. Disabling them doesn't usually impact a site's usability over all either.
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Computercare



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      Re: Third Party Cookies Explained
      « Reply #9 on: May 22, 2012, 09:02:50 PM »
      nice article really. but third party cookies are different from the 1st one.

      BC_Programmer

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      Re: Third Party Cookies Explained
      « Reply #10 on: May 22, 2012, 09:45:13 PM »
      nice article really. but third party cookies are different from the 1st one.

      In what way? the cookies are quite literally the same. The context determines whether they are third party.
      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

      evilfantasy

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      Re: Third Party Cookies Explained
      « Reply #11 on: May 22, 2012, 11:09:17 PM »
      Cookies. Most are small text files stored by your browser. Many expire once you exit the web page or your browser session. Other expire at a set date, sometimes years down the road. Then there are the ones that stay around forever or until they are removed either manually or by scanning software.

      A big thing to remember is that some, especially the ones that store login information or progress in online games. are very useful.

      IMO the best thing to do about Cookies is to simply understand what they are, the different kinds and how they all work. http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/c/cookie.htm

      A few useful links about all types of Cookies and how to deal with them.

      The Unofficial Cookie FAQ

      BetterPrivacy Firefox Add-on

      How to deal with Flash Cookies

      HTTP cookie