Loss of computer after attempt at backup

[truenorth]

Sony Vaio desktop, XPpro SP2, I recently installed a program called "Paragon backup". This morning for the 1st time i chose to back up my computer with it.
  I created a "save backup location" (as suggested) on an external usb hdd (L). Advised location ready and able. Began to backup from the Paragon wizard. Error message occurred unable to complete back up (to what i believe was the created location). Indicated files are lost.
  Closed the program.Tried a second time from the beginning to backup. Same result.Shut down program again. At this point no programs or running on the computer.Tried to disengage external hdd from "safely remove hardware".Message to try again later.From "start" turned off the computer. Shut off external from switch on it.
  On restarting the computer get the following:
1.single beep
2.Sony logo on black screen.
3.Dos page indicating equipment availability and status. (everything that should be there is) While open a cursor is flashing at the bottom of the page.
4.Then changes to a black screen with a cursor flashing in the upper left corner of the screen. Normally when the computer was working properly this also occurred at this point but would quickly advance the screen to the windows page.
   Now it does not no matter how long i wait. All fans are working as they should. This is my principal computer and i would truly love to get it back. I can enter setup. The only thing i changed to see if it would make a difference was i changed the boot sequence from an optical drive to the primary hdd. No change. so i restored to system "defaults" saved and exited. No change.
  It is indeed ironic that on something i had promised to do long ago (backup) on the very 1st attempt i have now lost the use of the computer.
  I do not appear to be able to get into safe mode.
  I suspect this is going to be a long thread and will involve many more questions. I will try to answer as many as i can. Needless to say paragon is gone if i ever get this computer back. I do have the Xp pro on CD. No recovery CD if one is available. truenorth

[Geek-9pm]

WOW!
First question, what is the name of the backup program and where idd you get it. At this point we might assume the program was corrupt from a download. But we could also guess that it was malware.

First recommendation, do not change anything until you are sure it is not MALWARE.

Do you have another computer that can make a bookable CD? You would use such a CD for doing diagnostics without changing anything on the Hard Drive.

I am not qualified to tell you how to do this.

We need a MALWARE EXPERT HERE!

[truenorth]

Geek_9pm, This is the program http://www.giveawayoftheday.com/system-backup-2010-special-edition/
and that is the site i downloaded it from. You end up going to the "Paragon" site to complete the process and get the registration codes.
  While i do appreciate your comments re the "malware" possibility i do not believe that is the problem. I had the program on the computer for a couple of days after download/install before i ran it.
  It is my belief that this problem arose from the attempt at backing up the files to the usb external location (and from the error messages that ensued).
  On the computer (Sony) where this program was/is i have the latest version of Avast running. The computer did NOT crash it just cannot be restarted into windows after that shut down.
  Yes i do have additional computer resources should they become necessary. truenorth

[Allan]

It certainly does not sound like malware and Giveaway of the Day is a reputable site.

I'd suggest you boot to the Recovery Console and do a "dir" command on c: drive. Let's see what's there. We can proceed from that point.

[truenorth]

Allen, Thanks for coming on board. Just a small update before i address your suggestion. According to web info  "F8" is the access to safe mode. However to the point of wearing out a digit --no safe mode appears.
  Now to your suggestion. How do i do what you suggest when i cannot get beyond where i have stated. I cannot execute any commands to the computer. truenorth

[Allan]

Don't thank me yet - let's see how much of a help I end up being.

The fact that F8 doesn't take you to advanced boot options is not a good sign, but let's move on.

You need to boot to the XP CD (the optical drive needs to be at the top of the boot order in bios) and then choose the FIRST repair option (press "R"). That will take you to the recovery console. Once you are at a command prompt either type dir (and press enter) or go to the root of the drive by typing cd \ (press enter) and then run the directory command. Let's see what's actually on the drive.

[truenorth]

Ok will try that. An optical drive is current # 1 and was not having any problems with it before this so it should be still there. Will advise re results. But probably not today as i am also ripping a bathroom apart for a reno.truenorth

[truenorth]

Ok took a minute to try the "recovery".Cd xp pro sp2 ran. Instructed to "press any key" to start recovery. Ran through a fair number of installations on a multitude of hardware/software fixes. Then ended up on a blue screen with "windows setup" in the upper left corner and "setup is starting windows" on the lower task bar. That is where it still is after at least 5 minutes. No command options presented. truenorth

[Allan]

I'm not sure what you are doing. Your first post said you have an XP CD, not a recovery CD. If indeed it is an actual XP CD you should be given the option right off the bat to repair your existing installation. If you do not see that, then the disc does not see XP installed.

1) DO NOT start the setup routine at this point
2) If you cannot get to the Recovery Console with the XP CD you can download a recovery console .iso (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=49552), burn the .iso to cd and boot to the RC that way
3) Your other option, of course, is to slave the drive and see what's on it

[truenorth]

An additional notion to concider re this issue. I believe that the basis of this problem is " an interupted process". Now if that is so how do i resolve it?
  Would anything be lost/gained by temporarily removing the CMOS battery and reinstalling it? truenorth

[Allan]

No. I do not see how resetting the bios would help. We want to make sure your files are still on c: drive. We can do that by either going to the RC or slaving the drive. And if the XP CD (it IS an XP CD, right?) does see the current installation you could always do a repair install. But please, one thing at a time - can you get to the recovery console?

[truenorth]

Yes Allen the disk i have/used is the XP pro CD. (not a recovery CD). However when it was inserted into the drive at boot the option to recover was presented by pressing a key (any i believe). Or something about if i wanted to use a 3rd party raid or SCSI drivers to press someother key. The options you stated never appeared.
   That is because as you i believe are stating it is NOT a recovery CD. However the recover option was presented and that is what i chose.
  OK i will NOT touch the battery. Yes i will try to make the recovery CD from another computer and will let you know the results.
  I am really trying to avoid confusing the issue by giving unnecessary info but it is difficult to know what is relevant and what is not.
  This computer (Sony) has 2 physical HDD (not counting the external). The 1st contains the O/S Win 98SE (C) and the 2ND contains the O/S XP pro (G). Hope that doesn't confuse things. On the (G) there are NTSF and Fat 32 partitions.truenorth
P.S. While in order to get this computer functioning it may be absolutely necessary to "recover" drive "C". It is what is on drive "G + partitions" that is my main concern. That is where all my important stuff is.

[truenorth]

Allen, RC.iso cd successfully created. Placed in Sony optical drive (the same drive that successfully recognized the Xp pro cd yesterday). Tried everything from touching no keys to a multitude of keys (individually) at boot and nothing would alter the outcome of the same black screen with a flashing cursor in the upper left corner of the screen. truenorth

[Allan]

So are you saying it is not actually booting to the cd? When you boot you just get to the same black screen without seeing an option to go to the recovery console? If so, it sounds as though you are not actually booting to the cd. I know you're concerned and a little upset, but your posts are a little hard to follow right now.

[truenorth]

Allen, Actually i am not really upset (yet) as it is still a challenge to be overcome at this stage. Upset may come later.
   Yes your assessment of the situation re the created "recovery CD " is correct.
truenorth

[truenorth]

In my continuing efforts to elicit assistance on this problem i can give some more information.
  While waiting for further input from CH members i have not been sitting idle.
  As the only access to anything on the Sony at the moment is via the BIOS, i have tried changing various BIOS values to see if it would change anything. By selecting " onboard LAN" the "controller " was "disabled". I changed the value to "enabled".
  By changing the value at boot i had a new page appear. It is called "realtek boot agent" (no idea what it is).The items available for values are:
1.network boot protocol = ROM disable
2.boot order-rom disable
3.show config message
4.show message time = 3 seconds
  I have not changed any of these values as i don't know if doing so would assist or cause further problems.
  I have also gone back and changed the "onboard LAN controller back to disabled until i have input from a forum member as to any need to permanently change it to "enabled".
   Doing any of the things stated above did not alter the end result which remains as:
1.unable to enter safe mode.
2.always end up with black screen with flashing cursor in upper left corner of  screen.
   While i note a continued interst in this topic (the view numbers keep climbing). I am somewhat disappointed at the very limited responces.
   At the moment my efforts are to try and recover the computer. It may become necessary to move on to attempts at "data recovery" as an alternative. However i am trying to delay that until it is felt that no improvement is possible to recover the computer. truenorth

[BC_Programmer]

well the first problem is you cannot boot to CD. Without being able to boot to a CD, there isn't a whole lot you can do to see what's wrong and wether the data on the drive is still intact. However, you could slave the drive into another PC instead or place it in an enclosure, this would allow you to copy files from the drive if necessary.

An optical drive is current # 1 and was not having any problems with it before this so it should be still there.

But, you state you changed it here:

thing i changed to see if it would make a difference was i changed the boot sequence from an optical drive to the primary hdd. No change. so i restored to system "defaults" saved and exited. No change.

So it would not boot from optical drives; also, the default for every PC after around 1995 or so that I've seen defaults to using the hard drive as the first boot device, so changing to the system "defaults" would not revert to the previous setting where the Optical drive was first in the sequence. I'd double-check this boot-order- in your last post you say you disabled the network boot as a boot device but nothing is said regarding the current order at the time.

It's important to note that most of the settings you have may be different from what you had before this issue; the defaults may be different from what was set. It shouldn't cause any issues though, just saying that it hasn't been "these" settings that were in use while your PC was not having issues.

Basically, the problem, from what I can gather is simply that (due to your changing the BIOS setting in boot-order as well as reverting to defaults) it may no longer be trying to boot from the optical drive at all. If the light does not come on the optical drive at all, then either your boot order is set wrong or there is something actually wrong with the drive. If the light comes on and it doesn't boot from it, then the disc is not bootable.

Additionally I might point out that the other threads in which you've stated a marked similarity to this one, you'll notice that you have received FAR FAR FAR more advice with regards to your problem then they have; in fact, the first one titled "black screen" has nothing that helps with the problem and is instead a request for more information, therefore I cannot help but wonder what your point was at all. and the second one has absolutely nothing to do with your issue at all so your statement that it is similar to your post is simply false, and really, it could be called spam if one was inclined.

[truenorth]

BC, Thank you for coming on board--really appreciate it. To deal with the issues you have raised.
1. While of course you could not know (nor did i state i believe) that in fact the order of the boot when i returned to default was the optical device i named in my original post. Now i am glad however that you brought up this issue. Because as a result to ensure when i replied to your statement i would do so factually. I went just now before this reply to verify. What do i see? I see 3 lines on the first items of "boot" in BIOS. The 1st is "disabled" and the next 2 in order are the 2 optical drives. So if i conclude correctly the default on the Sony is an optical drive BUT is it possible that indeed it is DISABLED. If so this would certainly explain why Allen direction re the creation and use of the "recovery disk he assisted me to make would not work. Before i again try that disk i would appreciate your opinion if indeed the presence of the "disabled as the lead line in the "Boot" of bios has disabled my optical drive?
2. As to the presence of "lights" i was not watching for that as the computer is not readily viewable from where it is located. However if you suggest i try the "restore" disk again i will watch for lights.
3.On your final point without going into a long discourse. Suffice to say that the post to which you refer in the "Picasa" posting had no business being in that thread. How it got there i have no idea. The subject has been addressed directly with "Patio" by PM after it was brought to my attention. I did make it in the "Black screen" post wherein i was truly only wishing the author more success than i was having with what  appeared to be a very similar situation. I have also PM'd the CH forums moderator after i became aware of the issue and requested the post in Picasa be removed.
  It was my intention in the Picasa post to try to help the originator which i am sure as you read it you will see a post initiated by me that does in fact try to do that.
  I would not wish to categorize the help i have received on that post (my current Sony problem) or any other seeking of assistance as being not appreciated. I think that without exception it will be noted if anyone cares to review the requests for help i have made in the past they all acknowledge and demonstrate an appreciation for whatever help is proffered. It should also be stated that my over 1200 posts do represent my occasional request for assistance however i would argue that proportionally the efforts within those posts wherein i have extended my best efforts to others with assistance or guidance far outweighs my own requests for help. And in fact my requests for help are NOT countless as alledged. They have been relatively few. Not to diminish the appreciation i have for those that did try to help me. I believe that my participation has been consistently in the spirit of what i believe is the credo of the CH forums. I do not seek to malign others. I believe that the vast majority of CH members are motivated by a desire to help others. I try to constantly (in spite of my acknowledged diminished experience and knowledge compared to some other members) to offer the best i can. Thanks again for your assistance and i await your suggestion as to my next step.truenorth

[BC_Programmer]

I'm not sure  regarding the "disabled" boot device option, since I am not familar with a BIOS that presents the boot-sequence in that way, but I'd suggest enabling it and seeing what happens then.

[truenorth]

BC, Roger,wilco--will advise--too tired right now will try tomorrow when I'm fresh. Plus i can live in hope in the meantime.truenorth

[truenorth]

BC & others, I have gone into my  bios on the Sony and under "boot" the item which is #1 in the sequence is "ATAPI CD-ROM (which is the default). If i click on that it brings up a 3 item list which is:
1,Disabled
2.Sony DVD rw
3.pioneer DVD rom
  It is #3 which is the default
   I tried both the default (pioneer) and then changed the boot sequence to make the Sony DVD #1. In both cases the results were the same as all previous results.
  Now to address the lights issue. There is no light to observe on the Pioneer. Not because it doesn't light there is NO light available. However when the recovery disc is in the drive i can hear it spin up and the drawer opens and closes on command. On the Sony DVD it does light and spin at boot. Still on the topic of lights initially the two orange lights just above the on/off manual switch on the front of the tower do initially both come on. Then it changes to one orange. Then when it transitions to the black page with the flashing cursor no orange lights are illuminated.
  I really do not know what i am doing nor what is being presented with the following so please bear with me. It occurs to me what i have that i believe is the "recovery" disc i created under Allen's assistance may in fact not be a recovery disc.
  When i take that disc and put it in another computer (this Compaq) An icon appears which is a picture of a disc with the letters ISO overtop and the small letters "rc " below the image. It is only 591KB which is the reason for my suspicion. When i click on the icon it brings up a window that list 3 choices.
1.convert to ISO
2.burn disc
3.cancel
  Have i put my finger on something here. I am in over my depth at this point as to what i am seeing re the disc. truenorth

[Allan]

You need to use a .iso burning utility to burn an .iso image.
http://download.cnet.com/Free-Easy-CD-DVD-Burner/3000-2646_4-10627009.html

[truenorth]

Allen, My installed and favorite burning program is one recommended on the CH forums. CD burner XP. It appears to have an ISO burning function (which up to now i have never used). I have also never burned an ISO image. So when i was trying to download and install to a CD from your earlier instructions should i have done something specific to create something other than whatever it is i now have? Am i correct that what i do have on the current disc is not what i should have? How do i do what you want me to do to create the "recovery" CD from the link you have provided?truenorth

[Allan]

You just need to download the .iso image and then use any software that can burn .iso images (if it's an integrated "burning program" you already have, the module should say "burn image" or something similar). There are free utilities dedicated to burning .iso images such as the one I linked to in my previous post. This really isn't complicated.

[patio]

I believe the option needed in CDBurnerXPro is "create bootable CD/DVD...

[truenorth]

I guess i am not expressing myself adequately. I have "something" on a CD at the moment. If i have to take what is on that disc and burn an ISO image--where do i burn it to? At some point it has to be on something (probably a CD) that i can put in the Sony optical drive. It will not be of any use if it is something on this computer (the Compaq). Or do i need to go back to your original recovery link and do it differently from that point. thanks again for you help,greatly appreciated.truenorth

[BC_Programmer]

And when its burned, it should NOT have an "ISO" file on the disc.

When you start CDBurnerXP It gives you the following menu choices:

Data Disc, Audio Disc, Burn ISO Image, Copy Disc, Erase Disc

You want to burn an ISO image, so that would be the obvious choice here.

Then you simply use the "Browse" button In the "Burn ISO Options" tab to select the Recovery console iso file you downloaded.

BTW, a final note, the disc is not really a "recovery" disc, it simply allows you to access the recovery console to verify that your windows install on your hard drive is present and that you can view files on the drive. While your there you can of course run several commands that might help with the boot issues, such as "FIXBOOT", "FIXMBR" and "chkdsk /r" (the last one may take some time).

I believe the option needed in CDBurnerXPro is "create bootable CD/DVD...

Except, the ISO is bootable already

I guess i am not expressing myself adequately. I have "something" on a CD at the moment. If i have to take what is on that disc and burn an ISO image--where do i burn it to? At some point it has to be on something (probably a CD) that i can put in the Sony optical drive. It will not be of any use if it is something on this computer (the Compaq). Or do i need to go back to your original recovery link and do it differently from that point. thanks again for you help,greatly appreciated.truenorth

Copy the ISO file from the disc. to a hard disc.

Use CDBurnerXP to burn it to a fresh disc. (or, the one your using if it happens to be an RW)

[Allan]

You need to download an .iso image to your hard drive. You then open your burning program, point it to that .iso image, and tell it to burn it to a disc.
Here are step by step instructions: http://www.petri.co.il/how_to_write_iso_files_to_cd.htm

[Allan]

I believe the option needed in CDBurnerXPro is "create bootable CD/DVD...

Typically the option is: burn image (or image file) to disc

[truenorth]

Gentlemen, I feel that i am indeed very privileged to have such great expertise trying to help me. Thank you all. As BC has stated the options are as he relates. I do not see the option that Patio has mentioned. So if i understand correctly i should go back to Allen's original link download the file to a known location on this computer (Compaq) and then locate it and using cdburner xp with the choice being "burn an ISO image"--burn that to a CD and that will be the CD to place in the Sony optical drive as the recovery disc. Correct? truenorth

[Allan]

Correct, except that it is NOT a recovery disc. It is a disc that will get you to the Recovery Console.

[truenorth]

Wilco, this may take a while will report back in due course.truenorth

[truenorth]

Will the problems NEVER end!!!!!!! I believe i have downloaded the proper file to "my documents" as a 7:35 mb file. When i open "cd burner xp" select "burn ISO image" it opens the appropriate window. I browse to the file,select it,select open and the file does appear in the burning process window. At the bottom of the window are 3 options.
1.convert to iso
2.burn disc
3.close
  The only option above that is default selected is "finalize disc".
 I select "burn disc' I have tried 5 blank cd disc (3 different manufacturers) and the result is always the same> An error window indicating an unusable disc.
  I have used this burner often. To ensure it's functionality i have just now played audio cd's burned a cd (not the one i want but another) all worked perfectly.The disc after the attempt at burn have all shown as not used and all free space when examining properties on the disc. Is there something wrong with what i am doing or could it be a bad file? truenorth

[Allan]

If the file downloaded properly it should be fine - I've pointed dozens of people to that file recently with no reported problems. Why don't you try the burning program I suggested above? After you use it you can always uninstall it if you like.

[truenorth]

will do,truenorth

[truenorth]

Ok i think i have the correct cd now with the image file on it via the program Allen offered. When i examine the disc in the Compaq it indicates the type of file as an "ISO image" Size= 7.35 mb.
  When i place it in the Sony the results are different than before.
1.I no longer get the Sony logo page at boot.
2.I get an "award bios ver 6 --- ending with press F2 to enter setup. It shows "PNP completed" Also shows all HDD and optical drives as present.Which i was NOT getting before.
3. If not paused on that page it goes to the same DOS page as before then goes to the black page with the flashing cursor as before and there it stops.
truenorth

[Allan]

No command prompt?
If not, it sounds as though the RC Boot disc can't find Windows installed. If I were you I'd slave the drive and see if there's anything on it.

[BC_Programmer]

Ok i think i have the correct cd now with the image file on it via the program Allen offered. When i examine the disc in the Compaq it indicates the type of file as an "ISO image" Size= 7.35 mb.

still sounds like it wasn't burned properly...

your still burning the Image file onto the disc as a file, rather then burning it as an image. When properly burned you should see two folders on the disc, "boot.images" and "i386" and two files, Win51 and Win51IC.

If you are seeing an "ISO" file on the drive then you are not burning it properly.

Did you use the "copy image to CD" feature explained in Allan's Link? How exactly did you burn the image to the disc?

[truenorth]

BC,The short answer is i cannot remember. But you may well be right that it still is NOT the correct info on the disc. I certainly do not see anything as you are describing. Using Allen's burning program and the file in my documents i am going to go back and do it again looking for the items you mentioned. The problem i am having with being unable to answer your question is because i am doing so much in so many programs i can't remember accurately what i did where or when. Don't worry you'll all get there one day. back at it. truenorth
P.S. I am assuming that if i DO get the correct data on the disc if i do an open or explore (as available) on my Compaq where i am trying to create it it will display those items you state?

[truenorth]

I have gone back to Allen's burning program and i find that the precise words ""copy image to CD"" are not offered as an option anywhere.
  There are a variety of choices on the top bar as you probably know. The one that seemed applicable to the task i want to perform is the 1st one "data CD DVD'. Then below there are selections within that to
1.Action=new,burn,create an image -- from that list i chose "burn" to answer your question BC. Then of course it has me locate that which i wished to burn and i pointed at the file in "my documents".
2.File and folder tasks=add folder,add file,create new folder,remove from project-- from these choices i chose "add file" and that was how the file from "my documents" was brought in. Then i selected "burn" The process was very fast measured in seconds by the time it did everything including the close (which was the longest part of the process).
 Allen ,You may be right to transition to a data recover stage. I had earlier mentioned that might become necessary. However given BC's observation i don't think we are there yet. I agree with him it may well be i haven't got the right info on a CD yet.
  Please remember i do not see the exact wording that BC has advised me to look for and use in the burning program. truenorth

[Allan]

BURN is correct. Shouldn't take longer than 20-30 seconds to burn.

[truenorth]

Allen, As i said that IS the option i chose.truenorth

[Allan]

Yes, I know. I was confirming your choice.

[truenorth]

Ok that interesting. When i first saw your post it only said "BURN" the rest of it wasn't there. So i too was confirming to you that that is what i had chosen truenorth
Is there anyway other than on the Sony to see if i can actually see if those things that BC mentions are actually there without damaging my Compaq?

[BC_Programmer]

.File and folder tasks=add folder,add file,create new folder,remove from project-- from these choices i chose "add file" and that was how the file from "my documents" was brought in.

That's during the creation of a data disc.

when you view the disc after burning it, you want to see:



If you are seeing the "ISO" file in the files list on the disc, then it is not being burned properly.

I'll list some instructions for several programs.

CDBurnerXP:

1.Start the program
2. Select "Burn ISO Image"
3. In the "Select ISO Image to Burn" textbox, use the "Browse..." button to select the "rc.iso" file.
4. Make sure the "target device" is the proper burner.
5. Check "Finalize Disc"
6. Click "Burn Disc"

the Disc should now contain the files I pictured earlier.

IMGBurn:

download link: http://fileforum.betanews.com/download/ImgBurn/1128426215/1

Once installed, You can do one of two things. You can right click on the rc.iso file and select  "burn using imgburn" which will take you to IMGBurn and you can simply click a large button near the bottom to start burning, or, you can:

Start IMGBurn. you should be presented with a list of options- "write image file to disc" is the top left item for my version, and is the one we want to use (click it).

Select the rc.iso file by either dragging it from an explorer window onto IMGBurn at this point or by clicking the left-side button of the two buttons to the right of the "please select a file..." text. Make sure you have an empty disc in the drive, and then click the large button on the bottom (has a picture of a disc on a piece of paper, and an arrow pointing away from it to an image of a disc). The disc should burn, and the files on the disc should now correspond with what I pictured in the image above.

[truenorth]

Firstly i sure do appreciate the effort and patience that you guys are displaying.BC i do actually have a version of image burn already on this Compaq computer. It is not a program i have used in a long time so i don't know how old it is. I am however going to follow your well detailed instructions for it and will let you know what happens. I certainly do NOT see anything near what you point i should see. Stay tuned. truenorth

[truenorth]

OK all done but not what i had hoped to see. I used your last paragraph of instructions to use IMGburn (i thought my version was too old so i used your link and installed the latest).I heard the beautiful symphonic music indicating a successfull burn and i also got the small window open indicating a successfull burn.
  When examining the content of the disc from an "explore" window the right side is blank. When i look at the properties of the disc it shows 100% full.
  I put it in the optical drive of the Sony anyway.A new page comes up which i can pause and examine.Well actually it is NOT a totally new page it is what i had always been seeing just before the black page with the upper left flashing cursor. But it now has new info at the bottom of the page which is:
"boot from atapi cd rom= no emulation
press any key to boot from cd"
  When i do press any key i then go to the black screen with the upper left flashing cursor.
  At no time can i ever generate on either computer those things i should see on the disc. truenorth

[BC_Programmer]

interesting...

the disc seems to be burning properly though, since it displays the "press any key to boot from cd" prompt.  (this is part of the disc itself, not the BIOS)

And then it freezes as it did on you before. I have to say this is a rather vexing issues to troubleshoot.

A:) can you Slave the hard drive in the "sick" computer into another one? (If you have an enclosure handy that would be best, since it avoids opening up the working PC) Then you can recover your data that way.

I'm not sure what is going on with the Sony at all; it appears to simply hang regardless of the selected boot device. If it has a Floppy drive, you could see if it will boot from that by formatting a floppy and selecting the "Create an MS-DOS startup disk" in the format options window. It's possible that one or both of the optical drives are failing/failed, you can eliminate that possibility by unplugging both of them and observing the same behaviour (hang when it tries to boot from the HD).

Aside from that I can only say that nothing sticks out for me as the cause here, and it could be any number of things. Including bad RAM, bad PSU, etc.

[truenorth]

BC you and others have been more than generous with your help on this issue. I will address some of your comments. Yes i do have a floppy drive in that Sony and it is recognized. However before i ever came on the forum seeking assistance i did try some "start up"floppies. Not sure which if either would be required but given that win98SE is one of the 2 O/S on the Sony i tried a win98 start up.
  I really am convinced that the problem is not optical drive related for a variety of reasons which i think if stated you would find credible. I have also thought about the RAM> I cannot remember how many sticks i have in it (2 i think). I will examine that and do the usual in/out/switch process (but not today).
  Yes i do have some unused enclosures but from experience with them they have generated problems of there own. So i would prefer to slave directly to minimize other issues creeping in. As i stated way back when there are two physical Hdd in the Sony. So i think i will slave the "G,etc" one 1st as it is already a slave to see what i get. Then i will slave the "C" and try to see what is there.
  But most importantly for you and the others:
1.you deserve a rest from this
2.your expertise needs to be available to others and not only me
3. I am (not upset--discouraged maybe) a bit tired of this so i am going to layoff the Sony probably until Sunday then I'll do the things i have mentioned above.
4.If you are unaware tonight there is to be an Olympic men's hockey game between Russia and Canada. It is stated by some to be likely the best game to be played in the tournament. So if your interested watch it and enjoy. I intend to.
5.I will most certainly report back when and if anything changes for better or worse with this problem.
    Thanks to all of you that have given me your assistance. truenorth

[patio]

This:

As the only access to anything on the Sony at the moment is via the BIOS, i have tried changing various BIOS values to see if it would change anything. By selecting " onboard LAN" the "controller " was "disabled". I changed the value to "enabled".
  By changing the value at boot i had a new page appear. It is called "realtek boot agent" (no idea what it is).The items available for values are:
1.network boot protocol = ROM disable
2.boot order-rom disable
3.show config message
4.show message time = 3 seconds

And this :

1,Disabled
2.Sony DVD rw
3.pioneer DVD rom
  It is #3 which is the default
   I tried both the default (pioneer) and then changed the boot sequence to make the Sony DVD #1. In both cases the results were the same as all previous results.
  Now to address the lights issue. There is no light to observe on the Pioneer. Not because it doesn't light there is NO light available. However when the recovery disc is in the drive i can hear it spin up and the drawer opens and closes on command. On the Sony DVD it does light and spin at boot. Still on the topic of lights initially the two orange lights just above the on/off manual switch on the front of the tower do initially both come on. Then it changes to one orange. Then when it transitions to the black page with the flashing cursor no orange lights are illuminated.

all send up a Red flag...
What i would suggest is finding out first which optical drive is the most dependable...
Unplug ALL others.
2nd  any changes you are making in the BIOS are obviously not working...therefore:
Power down the machine.
Unplug it.
Remove the CMOS battery for 10 minutes or so...then replace it and try again.

PS. I have no idea why a Realtek driver would show up in the BIOS...normally sound related.

PSS: When you move the 1 remaining CDRom drive to the top of the boot order the proper procedure is to press F10 to "save changes and Exit" and answer "Y" to the prompt...

[truenorth]

Patio, Dealing with your last paragraph 1st. Yes i do the F10 as the stage when i do a change. However if it doesn't result in any positive change then i go back into the BIOS and only press F5 to ensure that all BIOS values are returned to default. I do that on the presumption that it is better to start from a known total default situation than with some changed and some not.
  Now to another point. After i shut off the Compaq computer last night the Sony was still on. These 2 computer share a monitor ,keyboard,and mouse via a KVM switch. At this point the Sony is on the page where the page is black and the cursor is flashing in the upper left corner from my last effort with Allen/BC's ISO disc. For whatever reason i took the disc out of the drive that had created the reaction stated above and placed it in the other optical drive. I rebooted the computer. The results were dramatically different than when it had been in the other drive.
   It proceeded to do EXACTLY as had occurred way back when i used the XP pro CD and also concluded exactly the same way. That is with the final message at the location of the lower task bar being "setup is opening (or maybe starting) windows. However like the other time it also never advanced beyond that point. The screen was blue at that point. I shut down the computer and went to watch the hockey game (which was a great treat after the problems the Sony has been giving me  )
  In the same time frame as we have been dealing with this Sony i have completely renovated a bathroom,repaired a chainsaw and done many other of life's normal activities. I keep a small plaque on my desk which reads "to err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer". They can be a challenge.
   I had mentioned the battery earlier and it was recommended not to. However when i open er up on Sunday I'll put that into the mix.truenorth

[truenorth]

I have a bit of a quandry and i would appreciate your suggestion as to which way to proceed. It is my intention as stated to delve into the inards of the Sony on Sunday to try some of the suggestions that members have given.
  Coincidentally to my request for assistance on the CH forums i submitted a tech support rquest to Paragon (as i am convinced it was the attempted use of their backup software that caused this problem). I have recieved the following responce from them. You will note it contains a number of suggestions. I tried the one regarding the replugging in the external (as it seemed pretty benign). But i have asked them some additional questions to clarify some of their other suggested efforts and am awaiting a reply. My question is this
   Should i await their reply and then try their solution BEFORE i try any of the ones from the CH forums or can i go ahead with the Sunday effort? So far it has taken about 6 days to get a reply from Paragon. I would like to go ahead with the Sunday effort but i don't want to make things worse if their "recovery disc(s)" route has promise.
  No one will be faulted on the advice they provide--i just don't know what is besst at the moment. truenorth

 26/02/2010 15:29 (Pankratova Anna) Clarify Request 
  Add comment/Reply

DearXXXX, Thank you for your interest in Paragon Software products. Please provide us some more details to localize the issue: (1) Could you please specify did you disconnect the external drive where Snapshot Storage (Backup Capsule) is located? Please try to connect the device using the same USB-port as in first time and start your PC. Do you see 'Press F* key to restore from Backup Capsule"? (2) Do you have Paragon Recovery CD (it should be created with Paragon System Backup)? If not, please download the *.iso file with Recovery CD from our FTP: Burn the CD from image (not as a single file) and follow the instructions: 1. Boot your PC from Recovery CD 2. Select Normal Mode 3. Run Paragon Backup and Recovery 4. Ensure that both system partitions are healthy, Active and not hidden 5. Right-click the HDD with WinXP and select 'Update MBR' 6. Once finished, eject the CD and restart your PC Please let us know about any results. ____________________ With best regards, Anna Pankratova Support Engineer Paragon Software Group Knowledge Base: http://kb.paragon-software.com/ Web site: http://www.paragon-software.com/ Web forum: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=107 Follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/ParagonSoftware Get time priority in receiving qualified support! Learn more about our support offers at http://www.paragon-software.com/support/services/
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[truenorth]

This post is just to add some information re this ongoing issue. It is not complete as i have only done a part of the suggested remedies. But if i don't write from my cryptic notes now i will forget things.
1.There is only one 512 MB ram stick in it.So i removed it (don't have any spares of the same kind) and put it in the other available slot= no change.
2.I removed it and returned it to it's original slot=no change.
3.I removed the CMOS battery for 15 mins.=This brought about a number of changes
A) My SONY logo page is back at boot.
B)Instead of advancing all the way to the black page with the upper left flashing cursor the sequence stops at the page that has "award bios ver.6" at the top.
C) The 2ND line from the bottom of that page has "press F1 to continue and press F2 to enter setup" However pressing F1 takes me to the "PCI device listing page and then immediately to the black page as before.
D) I did do the F2 route and went into the BIOS and corrected the time and date. That is all i changed.
E) On the "press F1 etc" page initially there was a "checksum error-defaults loaded" Which is now gone since i changed the time/date
F) There is a brand new line (never there before)at the bottom of the stationary page which is "08/20/2002-nForce-A7N266VX"
G) The "PCI device listing page looks exactly as it did previously and shows all devices present.
   This is current to what i have done. Now i shall one at a time first take off line each of the 2 HDD and try the computer with only one connected. Then i shall remove the HDD one at a time starting with the slave and see what i can see in another computer on that HDD.
   This post is only given as info and unless someone sees something revealing from what has happened i do not expect a responce. I shall post again when i have the HDD results. Cheers,truenorth

[truenorth]

OK much to report. The 2 hdd out of the Sony are:
1.Master a Samsung 80GB with 3 partitions (2 fat 32 and 1 NTFS). Can read all partitions from the Compaq when HDD set to slave. All data/programs seem to be there and accessible (only tried a few to test access).
2.Slave from Sony Western Digital =80GB. There are 2 partitions showing both Fat 32. My memory is not clear enough but i am fairly certain i am missing a partition on this HDD. This is i believe substantiated by the fact that only 2 partitions are showing one with 26 GB and the other with 25 GB. Therefore where is the other approximately 29 GB?
  So needless to say i am quite pleased that i can access the data. I had thought it was mainly on the slave WD however it is actually on the Samsung.
   I have a question which I'm sure has a logical answer. I had expected to see (at boot) on the Compaq an opportunity to access the operating systems that are on the 2 HDD from the Sony?I do not. Should i see them? Is this an indication that they are gone? Perhaps as a result of the error from the back up attempt? If so where do i go now in order to rejuvenate the Sony?
  If anyone needs more info please ask.truenorth
  P.S. I really hope to recover the Sony as this Compaq has so many idiotsicracies i have no intention now or ever to get into them. But i should perhaps show it more respect it did get me through this.

[truenorth]

OK! I have been waiting for the return of the gurus. I did not want to do anything (for fear i would make things worse). However curiosity got the better of me so this morning for the 1st time since i put the Sony back together i simply turned it on.
  Something new has appeared that has not been there until now. I will not touch it to do ANYTHING else until i receive advice from the forum members as i feel i may be closer to the recovery of the computer than at any point up to now.
   The top of the page shows primary master disk=none,primary slave disk=none. So to me that means it is not seeing either of the HDD (even though we know now they both work). But maybe what it is really saying (i sure don't know) is no operating systems are being seen on either disk?
  At the bottom of the page is a line with "disk boot failure ,insert system disk and press enter". There is a flashing cursor below that line. I am going to turn off the computer via the power on/off switch on the front and await input.truenorth
P.S. As i just went to the computer to shut it off i notice something else that is new . The orange light to the left on the front above the power switch is on constantly.

[BC_Programmer]

Make sure the disks are properly connected. The error means it doesn't see the drives at all. Make sure the jumpers are set properly, etc.

[truenorth]

BC,Thanks. Wilco. Will advise,truenorth

[truenorth]

BC, You nailed it. In the process of the removal of the 2 HDD i also (unintentionally) had removed the MOBO connection as well. So that is fixed but that is all that is fixed.
   All i get now at start is the Sony logo page. The next page with the equipment and status of it (all drives present and accounted for) in proper description and size. Then the black page with the flashing cursor.
  One new event has occurred. The Paragon back up tech support has come through with their ISO recovery thingy. I now have it on a CD as an ISO image (i believe). Do you think i should give it a whirl? Or would you advise something else at this stage?truenorth

[BC_Programmer]

Do you think i should give it a whirl? Or would you advise something else at this stage?truenorth

May as well give it a shot. I'm out of other ideas at this point.

[truenorth]

OK a bit of an update to all of you following this post particularly those of you that have been so generous with your assistance there is news to report. Today i finally had the time to try the ISO "recovery disk" i created from paragon. The disk is recognized by the optical drive in the Sony. It proceeds via command to the wizard. It is not self evident as to what one should do at that stage. There appears to be an option to re establish partitions and format a drive. Now that we know that the 2 physical HDD are readable (well except for one partition on the master drive) i am loath to reformat as that would mean losing the data on the drive. Also an encouraging thing that seems to be evident from my perusal around the Paragon wizard (without executing an action/ change command is that that program does seem to see ALL 3 partitions on each of the drives. It lists them all and the contents all seem to be there on all 6 partitions. There are 6 drives alphabetically listed in sequence. I have emailed Paragon again to update them and to request specific guidance as to what to do next as at this juncture i don't want to create new problems. So while it is premature to start popping the champagne corks i do believe i can hear the orchestra tuning up in the distance. Will post again when new news to report.truenorth

[patio]

Post a screenshot of what Paragon is showing for drives and partitions...
And post a description of how you have these physical drives and partitions laid out prior to the image backup...

[truenorth]

patio, I will require some guidance of how to produce the information you desire (while it is still available before i have the paragon instructions). IE: How do i create a screen shot when i still have the limited access to that computer? I can try a digital picture and send that but i don't know what the quality and word definition will look like. As to what the partitions were "prior" to the image backup:
A) If they were different than what they now appear on the Paragon wizard (which i doubt) i sure cannot remember. I do remember that there were/are 3 on each physical HD. Also to the best of my recollection i believe one on each physical HD was an NTSF and the others were FAT32. But what the assigned letters to them as to the file format i cannot remember. On the wizard the way they are lettered at the moment is from "C" through "H" inclusive. Whereas originally there were "E" and "I" for the 2 optical drives in the wizard they are "X" and "Y" if i remember from my only observation. Anyway they are much later in the alphabet than they were originally.
  If you can tell me how i can give you the info you request i will make every effort to comply. It usually takes 3-4 days before Paragon replies so i do have some time to try to get you the info.truenorth

[truenorth]

THIS POST IS COMING TO YOU FROM MY SONY VIAO. OK OK enough shouting! But boy do i ever feel i have earned it. To all of you that have endeavored with your knowledge and experience to assist me a great big thank you. It was largely due to 2 factors that i have recovered it.
1.The iso software program provided from Paragon and
2.My wife standing over my shoulder holding my feet to the fire as i tried to follow the instructions (which i will add to this post when i go over to my Compaq where they are) as
a) typical of a lot of males i have a hard time with understanding instructions.
b) the sequence explained in the instructions were not accurate and it took some initiative and imagination to find a workaround method of using them.
  This subject seemed to have generated a lot of views. So to those of you that were following it and have hung in there my message would be:
a) don't give up and
b)persevere.
truenorth
Dear XXX, Sorry for delay. Please boot from Paragon Recovery CD and follow the instructions to update MBR: * Select Normal Mode * Run Paragon Backup and recovery * Check how your system partition is shown in Disk Map: ~check if it is not Invalid ~check if it is Active ~check if it has C: letter assigned If all these is correct, go to next step * Right-click the HDD (not a single partition) with system partition and select 'Update MBR' * Confirm operation * Once completed, restart you PC and check if it boots. Please let us know about any results. ______________________ With best regards, Anna Pankratova Support Engineer Paragon Software Group
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