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Author Topic: Windows 7 as an option?  (Read 14890 times)

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netnerdnerd9

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    Windows 7 as an option?
    « on: March 12, 2010, 12:40:30 AM »
    Hey guys I need your input PLEASE. I am thinking of changing to windows 7?

    Could someone please let me know how they find windows 7 and if they think it is a good move

    My vista is getting a bit old and irritating now :) Time for a change  8)

    Azzaboi



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    Re: Windows 7 as an option?
    « Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 01:25:40 AM »
    Windows XP SP3 is the most stable, fastest for gaming of the Microsoft OS.

    Windows 7 Ultimate is a great option, not as fast as WinXP SP3 but uses DirectX10+ and more media, effects.

    Win7 is basically Vista, with all the bugs and crap removed from it.
    Throw Vista out the window, seriously it is a memory hog and the worst of the three.
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    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Windows 7 as an option?
    « Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 08:19:23 AM »
    All four of those are false.

    Windows XP SP3 is the most stable, fastest for gaming of the Microsoft OS.
    It's none of those things. If you ask anybody when XP was released windows 98 was more stable. and it was faster for gaming. What the *censored* changed in the time frame since then? Oh, yeah, XP is no longer the latest one so it's no longer "slow and dopey" as was commonly said.

    Quote
    Windows 7 Ultimate is a great option, not as fast as WinXP SP3 but uses DirectX10+ and more media, effects.
    And neither one compares to windows 95 in speed today. What's your point?

    If you even NOTICE a slowdown with windows 7 as compared to windows XP, then your hardware is too old to handle windows 7. end of story.


    Quote
    Win7 is basically Vista, with all the bugs and crap removed from it.
    I'm REALLY REALLY REALLY sick of hearing this.

    People say "bugs" and "crap" but they can name neither. they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about half the time. What bugs? what crap? Citations please.

    Quote
    Throw Vista out the window, seriously it is a memory hog and the worst of the three.


    Right now, guess what's using more then 5 times as much RAM as anything other then superfetch. It's not explorer. it's not anything that is part of windows.

    it's firefox.

    Should I dump firefox based on the fact that it consumes more memory then Internet Explorer or Opera? No.

    Additionally, None of the memory management was changed between NT 6 and NT 6.1. anybody who says so is talking out their *censored*.

    Anyway, I have Windows 7 on my laptop and Vista on my desktop and honestly there is nothing notable about windows 7. most of the enhancements are little "hey, neat" things, like dragging windows to the top of the screen maximizes them, and dragging to the side tiles, etc. I guess it really depends how much you'd have to pay for it.

    Honestly? I find the differences between Windows 3.0 and 3.1 a *censored* of a lot more noticeable then the differences between Vista and 7.

    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Allan

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    Re: Windows 7 as an option?
    « Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 08:33:23 AM »
    Good post BC :)

    patio

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    Re: Windows 7 as an option?
    « Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 08:34:32 AM »
    Most people who bash Vista used it for 2 weeks or less...
    Or were asked to fix a Vista machine and quickly realised they didn't know as much as they think they did...
    " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

    Azzaboi



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    Re: Windows 7 as an option?
    « Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 10:23:57 AM »
    I happened to have all three OS on separate desktops/laptop, WinXP SP3, Vista Home, and Win7 Ultimate. Vista use to be on the i7 Core, best specs, and the other two performed better (for gaming benchmarks). I have not bench them together as they are different specs, but did swap them over at one point.

    None of the computers have had a crash or freeze except for Vista (due to compatiblity issues).

    But don't believe me, go read some reviews comparing the three, go look at the benchmarks.

    For example:
    http://www.testfreaks.com/blog/information/windows-xp-vs-vista-vs-7/

    WinXP is clearly faster than the three, specially for gaming.
    Win7 started off the slowest, but improving and uses less memory. Has better support for newer technologies.
    Vista is more media, but Win7 is basically a patched version of Vista, they have taken feedback from Vista and removed what people hated so much about it. Vista Service Pack has fixed some of the problems, but still major issues.

    I didn't compare the older OS because not many people would go for those options as they are discontinued and not supported. If you want the best OS, it could be even Linux depending on what you are wanting out of your computer.

    Microsoft is actually trying to discontinue XP in the future and have people on Vista upgrade to Win7...

    If you are really really sick of hearing Vista is utter crap, you either don't care about performance or haven't tried Win7 (which is a cleaner version of their mess up)!
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    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Windows 7 as an option?
    « Reply #6 on: March 12, 2010, 11:23:46 AM »
    I happened to have all three OS on separate desktops/laptop, WinXP SP3, Vista Home, and Win7 Ultimate.
    Yes. that's nice. I have a number of Operating Systems on different systems ranging from Windows 3.1 to Slackware 13. I didn't mention that because it has absolutely nothing to do with anything here.

    Quote
    None of the computers have had a crash or freeze except for Vista (due to compatiblity issues).
    Ahh, what a extensive empirical testing! "I oosed a few operating systems on diffrt hardware and they behaved diffret must hav bin dee operation systeem" (misspellings added for comedic effect)

    Quote
    But don't believe me

    had no intention of doing so.
    Quote
    go read some reviews comparing the three, go look at the benchmarks.

    *censored*?

    Oh, yes, my computer running Vista now has an consecutive uptime of ~1050 hours, but no, that means absolutely nothing! Vista is unstable and crappy because these review sites say so, even if my experience tells me otherwise.

    Quote
    http://www.testfreaks.com/blog/information/windows-xp-vs-vista-vs-7/
    WinXP is clearly faster than the three, specially for gaming.

    benchmarking tools are completely trivial and meaningless. Especially in this case. You'll note that the program is running on Windows XP 32-bit.

    Notable? yes.

    This means that the 64-bit windows versions are running the 32-bit benchmarking tool. obviously the writer is unaware that On 64-bit windows, all 32-bit programs run in a penalty box which virtualizes everything again. so the 64-bit windows benchmarks are WRONG, and I suspect the author is fully aware of this, actually. Now, the benchmarks are accurate for 32-bit games- at least partially- but most games nowadays also have 64-bit versions, and I know for a fact that my copy of crysis runs a lot faster with the 64-bit executable then the 32-bit executable. I also don't see how a analysis omitting an entire architecture point can still be regarded as any sort of evidence to anything. The author is just a crafty git who knows his readership (people such as yourself) are simply unaware of these things. The reason is simple- it's a lot easier to criticize something old that people are familiar with then something new that they are not.

    Quote
    "but Win7 is basically a patched version of Vista, they have taken feedback from Vista and removed what people hated so much about it".... "but still major issues".
    And yet you still provide no actual citations of these things that "people hated" and the "major issues" that are still present that were fixed in Vista.

    Quote
    I didn't compare the older OS because not many people would go for those options as they are discontinued and not supported.
    Windows XP isn't supported either. Which should come as no surprise. it was released 9 years ago. And you know what people were saying 9 years ago?


    EXACTLY... and I'm not even exaggerating- replace the technology names, and the OS names in a 10 year old XP review and you've got a Vista review and vice versa.

    Quote
    Microsoft is actually trying to discontinue XP in the future
    Yeah, it's called a "product lifecycle" you might want to look it up sometime. And XP is far from the only product to get a extension on it's supported lifespan, so did windows 98SE. And you know what? "In the future" they will discontinue Windows Vista and Windows 7! hardly reasons not to use them now.

    Quote
    and have people on Vista upgrade to Win7...
    yeah! and you know what happened when they released windows 3.1, even though it was nearly the same as 3.0 in many ways?

    They said people should upgrade! It's almost like- oh, I dunno- they're a company that wants you to buy their product! Dear gawd! It's a revelation!

    Quote
    If you are really really sick of hearing Vista is utter crap, you either don't care about performance or haven't tried Win7 (which is a cleaner version of their mess up)!

    perhaps you should read my post, namely the area where I note SPECIFICALLY my experience with windows 7:

    Quote
    Anyway, I have Windows 7 on my laptop and Vista on my desktop and honestly there is nothing notable about windows 7. most of the enhancements are little "hey, neat" things, like dragging windows to the top of the screen maximizes them, and dragging to the side tiles, etc. I guess it really depends how much you'd have to pay for it.


    Another interesting "argument" that comes up is that "Windows 7 is totally different" and they base that claim Solely on the changed UI of the included applets.

    I've noted this before, but calc.exe was completely rewritten for windows 2000- the calculation engine was completely revamped. Nobody cared. The program ran better but it didn't look better, so nobody gave a *censored*. Basically this is a case of people who haven't got a clue what they are talking about once again making vast hand-wavy generalizations based on what they see rather then actually researching the history of the applets themselves. You see- this is important, but when you don't change the insides, nobody notices.

    And even when you follow that tenet, you notice discrepancies. For one thing- why was nobody tripping over themselves with happiness when Vista allowed command prompt windows to be themed, when XP did not? Why did nobody care?

    Also, the biggest things people complain about are UI changes- the office ribbon, for example. or Aero- or Luna before that. They don't complain because it's inferior, they complain because it's different, any reasons they give are contrived. They can easily say "it reduces performance" but when your PC is adequate, neither Luna nor Aero have much of a performance impact at all. it's completely fabricated fodder based entirely on their own biassed perceptions. If somebody uses an OS they hate, they are going to notice things they dislike a *censored* of a lot easier then things that they do like, and whenever they find something they do like they will always rationalize it away somehow.

    Anyway- I like windows 7, it's good. But it is by no means this "magical panacea" that fixed windows Vista's "bugs".

    Which brings up, yet again, this issue of people simply saying "X is full of bugs". If I say your face is made of cheese, or that the world is square, does t hat make it true? No, I'd need a sampling of your nose Gouda or an analysis of vertices to prove it. This is called "evidence" and is presented when trying to "make a point" making meaningless generalizations merely reinforces the fact that you really don't know what your talking about and all your doing is regurgitating stuff you read elsewhere. Additionally, even if said bugs exist, we are of course forgetting that Windows XP, even after three service packs, still has bugs as well. Why don't these count? is XP somehow exempt from an attempt at contempt? XP has a heck of a lot more showstoppers then Windows Vista.

    Oh hey, let's run some queries with ol' google!

    Code: [Select]
    site:support.microsoft.com "BUG:" + "Windows XP"

    hits:

     2,600

    Code: [Select]
    site:support.microsoft.com "BUG:" + "Windows Vista"

    647


    What's this? less then HALF the KB articles?

    Windows 7 gives 196 for a similar query.

    Additionally, most of these bugs are fixed. but XP was never this bugless wonder that people insist on making it out to be.
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Veltas



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    Re: Windows 7 as an option?
    « Reply #7 on: March 12, 2010, 01:05:22 PM »
    Those have to be some of the finest posts I've seen so far on Windows 7 and the sickly attitude of those dogs that go around talking about 'vista but without the bugs'.  Want Vista but without the bugs?  Get Vista SP2, because that's the closest you're gonna get, and most of any 'bugs' to speak of no longer bother me in SP2, so it has to be reasonably 'bug-free'.

    Really I give credit to BC_Programmer for the brilliant posts, but BC; what's this all about:

    Oh hey, let's run some queries with ol' google!

    Code: [Select]
    site:support.microsoft.com "BUG:" + "Windows XP"

    hits:

     2,600

    Code: [Select]
    site:support.microsoft.com "BUG:" + "Windows Vista"

    647


    What's this? less then HALF the KB articles?

    Windows 7 gives 196 for a similar query.

    Additionally, most of these bugs are fixed. but XP was never this bugless wonder that people insist on making it out to be.

    Erm, XP came out in 2001, Vista in 2007, and 7 in 2009.  So that's 9 years of XP, 3 years of Vista, and about half a year of 7 to document bugs.  If you look at the dates you'll see that most of XP's bugs were written reasonably evenly spread over 2001-2007, that's a period of 6 years.  I think the reason there are less bugs in the db for Vista and 7 is partly down to the fact that they certainly haven't documented most 'bugs' yet; they haven't had the time.

    Another reason I'm not keen on this evidence is that it was provided by Microsoft.  Microsoft were very likely to tone down the number of bugs by writing less articles about problems, especially since even with XP it was rare your problem was documented, it just sat there making MS looking bad.

    The worst part is that the search terms are pretty bad, try searching for just 'XP' and 'Vista', rather than 'Microsoft XP' and 'Microsoft Vista' and you'll get VERY different results:

    Code: [Select]
    site:support.microsoft.com "BUG:" + "Vista"
    about 9,170 hits

    Code: [Select]
    site:support.microsoft.com "BUG:" + "XP"
    about 3,240 hits, and most of these are for software with 'XP' in the name (Media Player XP, Office XP, etc.)

    So it turns out MS has actually documented loads of bugs to do with Vista!

    Oh, and no, I didn't do a search for '7', for obvious reasons...  ;D


    I agree with what you're saying BC, but that just isn't a very good way of showing 'bugs'.  Actually, I don't think there is one that would be very reliable.    :-\

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Windows 7 as an option?
    « Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 02:33:43 PM »
    I was running out of idea at that point in the post.

    there are a million other reasons it doesn't count bugs; it will pick up windows 98SE or 2000 bugs that say "this issue was fixed in windows XP" and so forth. Really all it said is that XP is older then the other two.

    windows 98 brings up 2,080, heh, 95 gives 3 thousands something.

    windows 3.1 only gives a few hundred, for some reason, but I know that's wrong because my MSDN discs from Apr 2000 have at least 600 pages of BUG: entries for it.

    Quote
    Microsoft were very likely to tone down the number of bugs by writing less articles about problems, especially since even with XP it was rare your problem was documented,

    because the problem was almost never with windows itself in those cases. I think they had some sort of minimum amount of people that encountered the bug, then they would post a article. There are some pretty esoteric ones on there, that's for sure.

    Additionally, there are even BUG: entries for non MS applications. Because people were phoning MS "d00d, yur OS is crashin Lotus Notes"
    In any case- my main point was of course that XP wasn't any more bug free then Windows Vista or 7; the main reason people have a strong preference for it is simply because it's familar.

    Quote
    Get Vista SP2, because that's the closest you're gonna get, and most of any 'bugs' to speak of no longer bother me in SP2, so it has to be reasonably 'bug-free'.

    Yep, I've never used Vista RTM myself, it had a number of issues. Although if memory serves the XP RTM was no better. Windows 7's RTM is probably something like a "SP1" because of the public beta (that is, most RTM type bugs are fixed).

    The main thing that pisses me off is that as evidence they will say something like "but my second cousin's best friend's dog's previous owner's Stepdaughter's old boyfriend used Vista and it crashed all the time!" as some sort of evidence that Vista is buggy. It's like their trying to prove that Vista sucks just based on that whole "6 degrees of separation" rule.


    Anyways, regarding the original question- it really depends how much you have to pay for it. All you'll see in Windows 7 compared to Vista are a few UI features, and unless you do a clean install any "slowness" you're experience will almost certainly remain after an upgrade.

    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Mulreay

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    Re: Windows 7 as an option?
    « Reply #9 on: March 12, 2010, 03:03:18 PM »
    Loved the informative posts as always BC, I for one have Vista and the only 'bugs' I have are ones I have created myself by accident.

    kpac

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    Re: Windows 7 as an option?
    « Reply #10 on: March 12, 2010, 03:09:30 PM »
    I've had no bugs at all in Vista and I have it with about 3 years. I have however had a few freezes here and there with Windows 7.

    Allan

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    Re: Windows 7 as an option?
    « Reply #11 on: March 12, 2010, 05:23:56 PM »
    disregard

    talldude123



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      Re: Windows 7 as an option?
      « Reply #12 on: March 12, 2010, 05:28:50 PM »
      Regarding the second post, I find that Windows XP SP3 is actually slower than Windows 7. If I could; I would use Windows 7 on my old laptop (Athlon 2.0Ghz, 2GB RAM, 80GB HD). It's really speedy on it, I just can't find drivers for Windows 7 with such an old computer. HP doesn't support it. But Windows 7, any version except starter, is a very good choice for almost any computer, providing you can find drivers.
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      Veltas



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      Re: Windows 7 as an option?
      « Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 07:12:38 PM »
      Win7 is basically Vista, with all the bugs and crap removed from it.
      Throw Vista out the window, seriously it is a memory hog and the worst of the three.

      Grrrr, I hate this crap about 'memory hogging'.  I'm sorry but when my computer boots I give ownership of the RAM over to the OS (who else is gonna use it?).  Vista is far more efficient with RAM, and as long as you have 1GB+ (which today most computers have) you won't experience constant Page File Writing and general memory lag.  Vista uses a lot more RAM than XP, yes, so what?  Take a look at the RAM requirements for all Windows OSs, and then you'll get the idea of the trend of what is to be expected if you don't underrstand the concept.  I know certain games and programs use lots of RAM too, but this isn't an issue if you have 2GB+ of RAM (or 3GB+, depending on what you're playing).  To be fair, if you have a computer with 1GB of RAM running Vista, it's not the best setup for running games.  It might have worked with XP, so here's the choice plain and simple for people with low RAM: Vista or Games, not both.

      I happened to have all three OS on separate desktops/laptop, WinXP SP3, Vista Home, and Win7 Ultimate. Vista use to be on the i7 Core, best specs, and the other two performed better (for gaming benchmarks). I have not bench them together as they are different specs, but did swap them over at one point.

      None of the computers have had a crash or freeze except for Vista (due to compatiblity issues).

      But don't believe me, go read some reviews comparing the three, go look at the benchmarks.

      For example:
      http://www.testfreaks.com/blog/information/windows-xp-vs-vista-vs-7/

      WinXP is clearly faster than the three, specially for gaming.
      Win7 started off the slowest, but improving and uses less memory. Has better support for newer technologies.
      Vista is more media, but Win7 is basically a patched version of Vista, they have taken feedback from Vista and removed what people hated so much about it. Vista Service Pack has fixed some of the problems, but still major issues.

      I didn't compare the older OS because not many people would go for those options as they are discontinued and not supported. If you want the best OS, it could be even Linux depending on what you are wanting out of your computer.

      Microsoft is actually trying to discontinue XP in the future and have people on Vista upgrade to Win7...

      If you are really really sick of hearing Vista is utter crap, you either don't care about performance or haven't tried Win7 (which is a cleaner version of their mess up)!

      This whole thing is nonsense.  "But don't believe me," don't worry I won't. :P

      I happened to have all three OS on separate desktops/laptop, WinXP SP3, Vista Home, and Win7 Ultimate. Vista use to be on the i7 Core, best specs, and the other two performed better (for gaming benchmarks). I have not bench them together as they are different specs, but did swap them over at one point.

      Of all the things that won't help you know how well your computer performs, benchmarking is no. 2 on the list, right after Windows Experiance Index which gets no. 1 on that list anyday.

      None of the computers have had a crash or freeze except for Vista (due to compatiblity issues).

      Why is that important?  All computers can crash or freeze, no matter how good the set-up.

      But don't believe me, go read some reviews comparing the three, go look at the benchmarks.

      For example:
      http://www.testfreaks.com/blog/information/windows-xp-vs-vista-vs-7/

      WinXP is clearly faster than the three, specially for gaming.
      Win7 started off the slowest, but improving and uses less memory. Has better support for newer technologies.
      Vista is more media, but Win7 is basically a patched version of Vista, they have taken feedback from Vista and removed what people hated so much about it. Vista Service Pack has fixed some of the problems, but still major issues.

      Come on now, benchmarks are like IQ tests; they have nothing to do with the price of eggs.

      A good analysis would show you that actually they all perform better under different conditions in terms of gaming.

      XP favours single x86 processors and older games.
      Vista was the best at running DX10 games until Win 7 came along, but it plays late-XP period games the fastest for some reason.  It also runs a lot of games designed specifically for Vista fastest (but that really speaks for itself).
      Windows 7 is probably the best for x64 processors (with x64 OS installed, obviously).  I'd also go so far as to say it's the fastest for the latest games, and DX10 especially.
      Both Vista and 7 work better with multiple processors/cores.

      Microsoft is actually trying to discontinue XP in the future and have people on Vista upgrade to Win7...

      Well yeah, what do you think happened to all the other Windows OSs?

      If you are really really sick of hearing Vista is utter crap, you either don't care about performance or haven't tried Win7 (which is a cleaner version of their mess up)!

      To be fair, I think BC knows quite a bit more about 'Performance' and Windows 7 than you do, because of the stuff you've been going on about benchmarking and the way you seem to think Windows 7 works. I don't think you understand either very well at all.

      because the problem was almost never with windows itself in those cases. I think they had some sort of minimum amount of people that encountered the bug, then they would post a article. There are some pretty esoteric ones on there, that's for sure.

      I'm not so sure, I've had loads of probs with XP (the actual OS) in the past and there's never anything useful for it in the KB or anywhere on MS.com, I'm sure that part of that's to do with just plain bad luck, but MS has always been quite two-faced with 'support'; 'helping' on one side, but generally ignoring and only caring about $ on the other.  In fact, MS is just plain awful with support, and I think pretty much everyone can vouch for that in some form.

      my main point was of course that XP wasn't any more bug free then Windows Vista or 7; the main reason people have a strong preference for it is simply because it's familar.

      100% agreement.

      Windows 7's RTM is probably something like a "SP1" because of the public beta (that is, most RTM type bugs are fixed).

      Too true, it's the only reason I didn't wait longer to get Windows 7.

      The main thing that pisses me off is that as evidence they will say something like "but my second cousin's best friend's dog's previous owner's Stepdaughter's old boyfriend used Vista and it crashed all the time!" as some sort of evidence that Vista is buggy. It's like their trying to prove that Vista sucks just based on that whole "6 degrees of separation" rule.

      Personally I'm tired of explaining why Vista isn't *censored* to people who want Win 7, it's hard to prove it's not *censored* because I'm arguing against constant untrue axioms and general lies.

      Anyways, regarding the original question- it really depends how much you have to pay for it. All you'll see in Windows 7 compared to Vista are a few UI features, and unless you do a clean install any "slowness" you're experience will almost certainly remain after an upgrade.

      I don't think it's worth the hassle netnerd, I think you'll find that there just aren't enough advantages for Windows 7 for it to be worth all the work, because installing a new OS is always a ton of work.  Partitions, drivers, and getting used to the new *censored* thing, as well as reinstalling all your old programs (because upgrading is never going to be worth it).  Please heed my advice and don't install Windows 7, it's only going to cause undue hassle.

      Mulreay

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      Re: Windows 7 as an option?
      « Reply #14 on: March 13, 2010, 11:41:09 AM »
      Anyone else getting a real sense of deja vu?  :-\