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Author Topic: Local drives and remote drives  (Read 7585 times)

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geoffl

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    Local drives and remote drives
    « on: January 06, 2011, 01:09:38 AM »
    Hi,
    I run old DOS software on XP. If I load my data files on to a remote drive Things don't work the same as if they are on C: D: or E: on my computer. Does XP see a drive on another computer differently than one on my computer?
    Geoffl

    jason2074



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    Re: Local drives and remote drives
    « Reply #1 on: January 07, 2011, 08:17:46 PM »
    Do you mean Drive Mapping...?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_mapping

    geoffl

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      Re: Local drives and remote drives
      « Reply #2 on: January 07, 2011, 11:49:18 PM »
      Hi,
      I have a drive mapped on another computer on my network called 'T'.
      If I sort a file called 1.idx on drive 'C' my program askes the os to open a file called 1.19y - puts the sorted output in there and then askes the os to rename this file 1.idx. This works fine.
      If I load my data files onto drive 'T' file 1.19y is created but the os does not rename it to 1.idx.
      Some how drive 'T" is seen differently to drive 'C'. D or E on my machine work the same as C.
      Thanks

      BC_Programmer


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      Re: Local drives and remote drives
      « Reply #3 on: January 08, 2011, 10:02:46 AM »
      If the program was written for very early versions of DOS it probably uses Interrupt 0x13 for harddrive access, and I don't believe that the NTVDM emulates interrupt 13H for network drives.
      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

      geoffl

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        Re: Local drives and remote drives
        « Reply #4 on: January 08, 2011, 03:05:11 PM »
        Hi,
         My program is very old 1980 - 1986. Is this important for all access? Most other things work. I can open  change and close files, all my programs run ok. Would it be different if I had a system with a server?
        Geoffl

        JoshM



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          Re: Local drives and remote drives
          « Reply #5 on: January 16, 2011, 07:24:49 PM »
          Just out of curiosity, what program are you using from the 80's?

          geoffl

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            Re: Local drives and remote drives
            « Reply #6 on: January 29, 2011, 02:52:43 AM »
            Hi,
            Sorry for the late reply but I've been away. The program I use is called FMS80. Dos version was written in 1986 then DJR Associates - the writers disappeared.
            Geoffl

            Salmon Trout

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            Re: Local drives and remote drives
            « Reply #7 on: January 29, 2011, 03:43:35 AM »
            I think you are the person who asked about FMS80 on this forum in late April 2007 under the user name "GEOFF". FMS80 is an old CP/M (!) database program that was ported to the PC in the early 1980s. It is an utterly obsolete legacy app and if you are using it in a mission critical business role then man you are living on borrowed time! As BC_Programmer noted in this thread

            http://www.computerhope.com/forum/index.php?topic=114484.0

            Quote
            you can't expect to continue to use this 25 year old program forever either; at some point it will be necessary to migrate to something else, and at that time it will not matter how many programs you've, or anybody else has written in it's proprietary pascal-like language, because none of them will work- the beginnings of why you are starting to see.

            I realise this isn't what you want to hear, but you should have been planning to put money aside to pay for a DB pro to migrate you to a more modern DB tool. The longer you leave it the less likely it will be that anybody around will have even heard of FMS80 let alone know what to do!

            geoffl

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              Re: Local drives and remote drives
              « Reply #8 on: January 29, 2011, 04:30:00 AM »
              Hi.
              I hear what you are saying & I thank you for saying it. Money is not a problem. This has been my hobby for all these years. To progress through win3, win98 - lots of people told me this was finished at dos6. To see this working (98%) on win7 is amassing. I see other apps written for our type of business and they are so out of touch - because programmers and business people will never think the same. I hearh what U were saying when U were Contrex and I hear what U are saying now. I have had a lot of successes - sending HP control codes from my program to an HP network printer - opening a comport in NTVDM. So I will keep on looking for answers. Is there someone who could decompile my program and find out what it's not doing right?
              Regards
              Geoffl

              mroilfield



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              Re: Local drives and remote drives
              « Reply #9 on: January 29, 2011, 06:41:52 AM »
              I see other apps written for our type of business and they are so out of touch - because programmers and business people will never think the same.

              What type of business are you in that all the business type programs are out of touch? This is why you hire a programmer to write a custom program for your business.

              Is there someone who could decompile my program and find out what it's not doing right?

              You have been given this answer by multiple people already. The program doesn't work because it is not being operated in an environment that it was written for.

              How many more people do you want to tell you what is wrong with it before you accept it and move on to a new program?
              You can't fix Stupid!!!

              BC_Programmer


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              Re: Local drives and remote drives
              « Reply #10 on: January 29, 2011, 09:03:29 AM »
              Thing is, decompiling the program won't be very useful; unless you happen to know an assembly language expert- and one well versed in 8086 instructions as well as the CPM Operating System; in which case you'll just be confirming what is already known- it is written for an older operating system. The only recourse at that point would be to literally write a new application from the ground up that is fully compatible with it, but that would have a rather limited usage for your particular case- it certainly isn't something that somebody will decide to do on a forum such as this one; generally forums such as this may help with problems in a program that you've written, batch code that doesn't work, or help writing a small snippet- not the decompilation and rewriting of a very old program.

              One might ponder "well, why would it need to be rewritten?"

              It's not that the program is doing something wrong- as far as the program is concerned, it's interfacing with CP/M; but what it's really interfacing with is a DOS emulator running on a Windows system. Problem is, the DOS emulator was written to be compatible with DOS programs, not CP/M programs. It works for the most part because DOS and CP/M share a similar architecture; it's the differences that are causing the problems you are seeing.

              The program, however- is not doing anything "wrong" since it is no doubt doing everything right in the context of CP/M; could it be "changed" to make the more appropriate DOS calls? probably. But again, that would require the time (and thus payment) of a Assembly expert versed in both writing 8086 Assembly for CP/M as well as DOS, as well as porting between the two; and if one is willing to invest in that, you may as well invest in migrating to a new system.

              I believe I've mentioned this before in one of the other threads, but I'm all for the "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" line of thought, but that's the thing- it's broken. It's not easily fixed, so it should be replaced. The compatibility of a program is it either works on a newer Operating System, or it doesn't. In this case, you got lucky- the program does work, but with several caveats (including the network issue you stumbled on).Continuing to rely on FMS80 for your business is akin to relying on a house of cards to hold up in a strong wind; the odds are very much against you, and while some people get a perverse thrill out of being the one told "it'll never work" and "you can't do it", that hardly makes it a reasonable choice.

              The reason the CP/M program chokes on a network drive may very well have to do with the fact that the network redirector isn't exposing the drive in a manner to which it is accustomed to seeing. What specifically this means I can't really say; it is more a guess then anything, but trying to figure out why seems somewhat fruitless, since even if you do determine the exact cause the only recourse will no doubt lead you back to requiring the hiring of somebody to perform tweaks to the application.

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              I see other apps written for our type of business and they are so out of touch
              Do not take this the wrong way- but how can you be sure it is them that are out of touch, and not you- the person using a 25+ year old program? Is it not generally the  person clinging to the old technology who is "out of touch"? Also, What visible problems do these newer applications cause to businesses that use them as a result of the application being "out of touch"?

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              because programmers and business people will never think the same.
              I cannot speak for business people- mostly because I really cannot tease out what particular context that has here- but as for programming, of course it's changed.

              With CP/M and DOS based business applications, particularly in the case of databases, you had text based prompts, where you almost always directly typed in queries using that programs query language. This required quite a lot more training and in general more technically inclined personnel. Now, you can generally get a usable database for a small business using Access, and it can include forms for data entry, with labels- all of which can be easily explained to data entry personnel.

              While the power of the command-line interface in any number of applications, and computers in general- are very powerful, they are not something that you find in everyday, modern applications, because those everyday modern applications are written with the goal in mind, not the path to that goal. You no longer need to memorize a series of otherwise irrelevant database insertion, deleting, editing, and updating commands to manage your business data, instead you deal with more intuitive interfaces that allow you to get at the data you want; if a user has to learn how to do a basic task in your application- you've failed. That is the general consensus. So yes- programmers will "never think the same" but to say that in a manner that denotes that the change is negative is to ignore the fact that that very change- for better or for worse- has made computers far more accessible to everybody the world over.

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              I have had a lot of successes - sending HP control codes from my program to an HP network printer - opening a comport in NTVDM.
              I wouldn't call those successes, as much as I would call them brash workarounds and hacks for a problem that is far easier to eliminate and will only grow exponentially with time.
              I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

              Salmon Trout

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              Re: Local drives and remote drives
              « Reply #11 on: January 29, 2011, 09:54:02 AM »
              as far as the program is concerned, it's interfacing with CP/M

              The reason the CP/M program chokes on a network drive

              Er, the FMS80 database management system was originally written for 8-bit 8080 CP/M but the version our friend is using is the 16-bit 8086 MS-DOS version.




              BC_Programmer


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              Re: Local drives and remote drives
              « Reply #12 on: January 29, 2011, 10:00:06 AM »
              Er, the FMS80 database management system was originally written for 8-bit 8080 CP/M but the version our friend is using is the 16-bit 8086 MS-DOS version.

              forgot about that. Still, the issues re: network drives are clearly the result of the fact that it is in fact not written for the OS being used.
              I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

              Salmon Trout

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              Re: Local drives and remote drives
              « Reply #13 on: January 29, 2011, 10:17:16 AM »
              forgot about that. Still, the issues re: network drives are clearly the result of the fact that it is in fact not written for the OS being used.

              It was ported, or rewritten, or recompiled or whatever you want to call it.


              BC_Programmer


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              Re: Local drives and remote drives
              « Reply #14 on: January 29, 2011, 10:37:23 AM »
              It was ported, or rewritten, or recompiled or whatever you want to call it.
              For windows?
              I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.