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Author Topic: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released  (Read 15194 times)

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Allan

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Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« on: March 15, 2011, 05:36:49 AM »
Internet Explorer 9 RTM released.
 
  Availability of Windows Internet Explorer 9:
  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/982861
 
  Download Internet Explorer 9 RTM:
  http://www.beautyoftheweb.com/
  http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/products/ie/home
 
 

soybean



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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2011, 08:10:36 AM »
Apparently, IE9 will not be available for Windows XP.  Windows XP is not among the OS listed at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/982861

Allan

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2011, 08:11:34 AM »
Correct

BC_Programmer


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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2011, 08:15:35 AM »
Apparently, IE9 will not be available for Windows XP.  Windows XP is not among the OS listed at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/982861

That's not really that surprising. IE6 didn't run on Windows 3.1 (IE6, August 27th 2001: Windows 3.1 was about 10 years old at the time).

Windows XP is not about the same age as Windows 3.1 was when IE6 was released.



On IE9, Here's a link that landed in my inbox:
http://www.geekwire.com/2011/geeks-guide-to-ie9
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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2011, 12:28:11 PM »
IE9 has made significant improvements. The speed boost is one thing they did well on.

Although finally, IE is starting to fill up the gaps that was lagging them behind previously  :P

soybean



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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 03:14:31 PM »
IE9 has made significant improvements. The speed boost is one thing they did well on.
I agree.  I immediately noticed smoother scrolling of pages with IE9, compared to IE8. 

Allan

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 04:06:27 PM »
I'd really prefer to have the tabs below the menu bar, but the previous reg file fix doesn't seem to work for ie9 even though several sites on the web say it will.

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 04:27:51 PM »
I already don't like it...
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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2011, 04:47:16 PM »
I already don't like it...

IE9 is probably the best IE version released by Microsoft to date, but still firefox or chrome is doing better than it.

I feel like IE is trying to play major catch-up every time a new version is slated to be released  :P

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2011, 06:36:07 PM »
I'm trying to install it right now.

Let's say it's definitely starting with -300 points for the install process.

I mean, come on. Firefox- Opera- Chrome- a few clicks installs them.

For Internet Explorer 9:

First, I had to FIND THE BLOODY DOWNLOAD. most others you know, when you click "download" or "download now" download the file for you. But no, with IE9 it takes you to some otherwise unrelated site that drones on about how great IE is and silverlight and other unimportant BS... and it makes sure you know about the tiny "download" button in the upper right, by not highlighting it's location at all.

So then I download some seemingly random file which starts out by downloading IE9.

OK, am I seriously the only one who hates the way they do this? if I choose to download something, I want to download IT not some stupid web-installer for it. This is the same nonsense we get to go through with service packs. but at least Service packs can justify it with their rather large size compared to how much will be used during the install.

So the install started... I guess... and the first thing it tells me is it has to close...

Every single useful application I was running. Visual Studio 2008, Editpad Pro, Firefox, Fox-it reader, mIRC, and best of all, Explorer.

I'm serious. when I had saved and closed all of those and clicked to continue...

IT terminated Windows Explorer. Goodbye start menu. For some reason I had to restart it manually too. Good thing I actually now how to do that.

And now it's doing nothing. Just sitting in the background- no prompts since. Do I have IE9 now? is it finished? Nope... still IE8.

So, I decided to look up some scree... *censored* program is that?

I think somebody mentioned it before, but it seems like both Firefox 4 and IE9 are going in the same direction as chrome- which is to say, they are throwing caution to the wind and using completely custom UIs, and custom skins. Sigh.

What is wrong with the developers? When you develop a Windows Application, it should look like a windows application. There shouldn't be any of this bloody "skinning" of your application to make it look special. It's called being CONSISTENT. At least most Linux Desktop developers understand this; their applications have a consistent interface that follows a set guideline. There shouldn't be ANY of this nonsense where Applications have skinned windows. It's stupid. Windows Live Messenger is an example- *censored* is that? SHOW ME A DAMNED NORMAL WINDOWS APPLICATION. none of this STUPID crap where you show me some fancy skinned window that I can... OMG! I can change the colours of it! I don't care. I want a Windows application to act as such. It should look like a windows application, not like a 5 year old vomited pastels all over the graphic designers concept art.

Obviously, Chrome was hardly the first example of this. But custom-skinned applications were stupid in 1995 when Media players were using it and they are still stupid today. Chrome just took an extra step and decided to completely redesign how menus are done.

Menus are something that should remain consistent throughout an OS. You don't go screwing around with something for the sake of trying to fix it, because it's not broken. There is nothing discoverable about what the "wrench button" does. The "hide menus until alt is press or the user hovers near it" was annoying in and of itself but at least it was consistent.

Go ahead. Open chrome- you know what the wrench does.

can you apply that piece of GUI info to any other application? No. of course not, it's a menu but it's entirely nonstandard. What they might have gotten away with- and what might actually work- would be to use something more akin to the Ribbon UI; and use the chrome button that would then be at the upper left to show the aforementioned menu. Then Users would learn about something that other applications actually use and they will be able to apply their knowledge that they learned about the ribbon from other applications to chrome.


Media players are another example of this, that have  been this way for years. I don't know what in particular makes them think they can turn their windows into a bloody canvas for idiot graphic designers who wouldn't understand good UI design if you buried them in Alan Cooper's published works, but they should STOP.

There are people praising how IE9 (and chrome, and by default FF4) get rid of the toolbar.

Why is this a good thing? I mean, Toolbars came around for a reason. to provide easier access to commonly used functions. It seems though that they really haven't removed the toolbar, they just stripped it down to three buttons and put it on the title bar. On the title bar. You know, even though the User Interface guidelines they've published since windows 95 have essentially said not to change the titlebar.

It just pisses me off to see developers wasting time re-solving a solved problem. Window management should be done by the Operating System. The minimize, Maximize, etc buttons should be off-limits and their appearance should be dictated by the appropriate color settings for the current theme. If you want to design your own User Interface with new concepts from the ground up, write your own OS; or better yet, write a DOS application.
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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2011, 11:17:43 PM »
IE9 installed on my machine on first go. No freezing, nothing. I downloaded a tiny file, which did then download the installer and did its thing in that one dialog box. After I did the reboot as prompted by the installer, it was all fine.

But I know for every software out there, somebody's gonna have a problem or a complaint about it  :P


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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2011, 04:31:19 AM »
IE9 installed on my machine on first go. No freezing, nothing. I downloaded a tiny file, which did then download the installer and did its thing in that one dialog box. After I did the reboot as prompted by the installer, it was all fine.

But I know for every software out there, somebody's gonna have a problem or a complaint about it  :P
If you're saying BC_Programmer had a problem installing it, I think you somewhat missed his point.  He wasn't saying he had a problem installing it.  I think he's saying the procedure is cumbersome and more complicated than need be, that it's more complicated than other browsers and software in general, and he's questioning the need for the complexity of the process.  As he said, why have the small initial download of a separate web-installer that then downloads the rest of the installation files? 

I don't see anything in your comments that lead to believe your installation worked different than his.  The process prompted you to shutdown any other application running or allowed you to let it shut them down, right?  And, it even shutdown Windows Explorer while installing, right?  So, the procedure worked the same for both of you, which is the same way it worked for me. 

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2011, 08:14:50 PM »
Pretty ugly looking and  it still doesn't meet web standards.

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2011, 09:20:09 PM »
IE9 installed on my machine on first go. No freezing, nothing.
Mine didn't freeze. Mine got to the part where it closes the various apps, it did so, and then it did nothing in the background for 3 hours (before I decided to just kill it). Naturally if I want to try again I get to use the same web installer which will once again download the installation components from the web.
Quote
I downloaded a tiny file, which did then download the installer and did its thing in that one dialog box.
I got at least three dialogs; the downloading components dialog, the initial Wizard page for installation, clicking next and accepting the agreement, and finally the dialog asking that some applications need to be closed.

I never got a reboot prompt. And seriously? A Reboot? which other browsers need a reboot? None. And if it's going to reboot anyway, why did it need to close all my programs? There are ways of making the OS replace files during the next reboot, and if the setup is  going to force that anyway it may as well use it and let me continue doing whatever it is I was doing while it installs.

Quote
After I did the reboot as prompted by the installer, it was all fine.
Like I said- never got a reboot prompt. I did have to reboot since though so I doubt it's the "missing piece" of the puzzle type thing.

Quote
But I know for every software out there, somebody's gonna have a problem or a complaint about it  :P
My larger complaint isn't insomuch with Internet Explorer as it is with the way modern applications seem to shrug off any adherence to basic UI rules. Same with their installers.

They shouldn't need a reboot. Period. AFAIK even Windows Update only get's away with this by the skin of it's teeth.




So, the procedure worked the same for both of you, which is the same way it worked for me.

Well, not really. Mine didn't work insomuch as it stopped working entirely after the "we have to close some programs for no discernable reason" phase.


I imagine the reason was that those programs were using one or more of the IE libraries; EditPadPro may use it for the FTP feature; Firefox had it open because of IETab, Visual Studio 2008 had it open because it uses a webbrowser interface for it's startup page, and so forth.

Windows Explorer was just a weird one. I'm pretty sure it uses them in some capacity but requiring it to actually be closed? (maybe it didn't finish installing properly because I restarted explorer?)

I have no doubt the actual browser bit is better then IE8... although if "smoother scrolling" is the only thing I'm trying to wrestle this beast for then it's not really worth it. Also, I already noted my disdain for the direction applications are going with their complete ignorance of basic UI design. It's almost like each application is now being treated like a webpage circa 1996. We'll probably start hearing background MIDI's while programs start in a few years :P


Pretty ugly looking
Agree.

Quote
still doesn't meet web standards.

Based on what?
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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2011, 09:28:59 PM »
http://acid3.acidtests.org/

Perfect score:


IE9:

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2011, 01:09:51 AM »


The Acid3 test is practically useless for determining wether a browser supports the current standard. Half of the reason for this might be because that wasn't what the test was for; the other half might be because it tests what the designers thought was going to be important 2 years ago.

1st: Acid3 tests The performance of a browser on a few edge case tests.
2nd: some of the tested items weren't even a standard yet when the test was conceived, and some of them have been removed.



Quote from: acid3 wiki page
To pass the test the browser must also display a generic favicon in the browser toolbar, not the favicon image from the Acid3 web server. The Acid3 server when asked for favicon.ico gives a 404 response code but with image data in the body. This tests that the web browser correctly handles the 404 error code when fetching the favicon, by treating this as a failure and displaying the generic icon instead.
This is utterly stupid. Like I said, it's testing edge cases for no good reason. This isn't even really a behaviour that is actually documented as having to be implemented this way, they just unilaterally decided that this way was the "right" way. No doubt they came to this decision by assuming that whatever Internet Explorer was doing at the time was the wrong way.

Whatever the case may be, Acid3 is useless when it comes to determining how good a browser is for web browsing. So I guess the question is, what is the Acid3 test good for?

Additionally MS had an explicit aim NOT to try to satisfy the acid3 test with IE9. This was for several reasons, not the least of which was every time they went on a limb and supported a draft standard the W3C chainsawed the branch they were on, leaving them dangling with their "proprietary" implementation of what was in the draft spec, and because they added it there were pages using it and they had to keep supporting it.

Draft standards aren't standards. But whenever they crop up or there are ambiguities in the specification (and there are, all over the damned place, or more likely many details are left up to the implementator) then suddenly at the next revision the W3C, in a totally unbiassed decision (/sarcasm), has decided that whatever way IE implemented the feature was "wrong" and all the others were right, and if there were named elements that were chosen for each implementation they go with some other browsers choice. Usually firefox, which seems to be a W3C favourite.

The thing is, despite my ravings above about IE9, I still think IE is handed the short end of the stick on a lot of things. IE6 didn't support a lot of features of modern browsing, but considering those features weren't even conceived in 2001 when it was released I don't see what people expect. is MS supposed to get a damned time machine and go back and fix them?

Either way, ALL browsers need workarounds for a number of things. Firefox is no exception. Chrome has at least 3 blatant DOM bugs, and I say blatant because they clearly do what they aren't supposed to do, or don't do what they are supposed to do. The excuse is of course that Chrome's "script compiler" or whatever they use "changes the behaviour" but that's not an excuse, it's a reason. Fix the damned bug, don't just close the bug with "do not fix" as if it's a non-issue.

Personally, Standards Nazi's piss me off. Of course there aren't any in this thread and I don't mean to imply that there are; but basically there is this overridding mindset that "browsers that support the standard are better". They aren't. Think about it. Browser compatibility is really only marginally better now then it was in the days of Internet Exploder 4 and Nutscrape Communicator; the only difference is that now there is some whimsical uncommunicable entity now called the "standard" that they are striving for, and somehow the browsers that fall under this flag more clearly are "better". This despite the fact that half of the standards themselves are ill-defined or leave the actual definition of a lot of the standard to the implementor, so there really is no hard and fast way to actually test the standard or it's implementation, all it(acid3) tests is wether the implementation of the standard approximates what the implementor of the tests thinks it should. I have never met a skilled software developer who worked on medium or large-scale web apps with hundreds of thousands or even millions of users who didn't come to realize how horrible the W3C standards are.  You come to realize that every browser has major bugs, even bugs between different versions of the same browser (Safari).  You also realize that IE is the vast, vast majority of your market and that catering to IE is the single most important thing you can do.  IE is a defacto standard and making sure your site works flawlessly with IE is priority #1.  After that it's usually Safari and then Firefox (which holds a much smaller share of the market than most people seem to think).  Trying to show some pictures of some test that really doesn't test what it claims to doesn't really change that.

To be fair, IE definitely has room for improvement -- all the browsers do -- but the attitude that IE with its ridiculous market share should conform to standards that aren't particularly better than the ones already established by IE is silly.  Just because a "standards body" dictated a particular way for the web to function does not mean that it is sensible for this mandate to take precedence over reality.  What's more, I do not believe that any innovation of significance will come from a standards body like the W3C.  The best the W3C can do is come in after the hard work has been done and document the whole thing and maybe whine a bit when the actually innovator is unwilling to expend the resources to conform to this new, documented standard, which they often change seemingly just so they can do that whining.

In any case, the basic problem comes down to this; HTML and CSS are good for basic, text-rich documents and nothing else. And lately The problem is that we've been building more complicated, interactive web-based applications with this mess.  Basically it's no different then how Microsoft Word is primarily a text editor but- for whatever reason- you can insert Controls and textboxes and buttons and stuff into a document, and even make your own "mini-application" using VBA. Yoy can add Ajax, JQuery, Javascript, and ten layers of stylesheets, but it isn't going to change the fact that HTML and CSS were not originally designed for what they are being used for today. The fact that "tests" like acid3 even exist is a good illustration of that.

And lastly, Yes my last few posts have been long. I've been holding back for the last month or so and I have a lot of spare letters lying around to use up...  ;D
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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2011, 06:34:39 PM »
Is [rl=http://clients.futuremark.com/peacekeeper/]Futuremark Peacekeeper[/url] a good browser performance benchmark tool?

patio

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2011, 06:50:03 PM »
"Nutscrape" ? ?

Yer killin me..... ;D
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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2011, 07:04:55 PM »
Quote
The Acid3 test is practically useless for determining wether a browser supports the current standard
I really don't need half of a page argument about it.
All I need to do is to visit couple of pages to see, if IE9 supports current standards, or not.

Rather popular page: NHL.com



Looks like a joke...

Broni


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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2011, 07:08:40 PM »
Another example.
Go to NBA.com, hover over "Standings" to reveal drop-down menu:


Now, slide the cursor down to select ANY menu option and it disappears. No way to select anything :)

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2011, 07:18:37 PM »
I think I will wait a couple of weeks.  Although I use FF almost all the time, I still usually keep IE up to date.

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2011, 07:51:13 PM »
Another example.
Go to NBA.com, hover over "Standings" to reveal drop-down menu:


Now, slide the cursor down to select ANY menu option and it disappears. No way to select anything :)

What do you mean by "No way to select anything"? It seems to work fine for me :P The menu doesn't disappear, and the selection appears in gray when you hover over the menu's links.

How to tell if standards are not being followed?

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2011, 08:28:26 PM »
Broni, the NHL page looks fine on my computer with IE9.  See attached image. 

I'm wondering what size monitor and resolution you are using. 

Regarding the menu on the NBA site, I see like 2x3i5x; it works for me.  As he said, when you hover over the item on the drop-down menu, it turns to a light gray; indeed, it's not easy to see.  But, the mouse is clearly pointing to a hyperlink and clicking on it works.

Might be time for an eye exam.   ;D

[recovering disk space - old attachment deleted by admin]

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2011, 08:39:54 PM »
1440x900
You?

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Re: Internet Explorer 9 RTM released
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2011, 08:53:36 PM »
Mea culpa.
I see, what the problem was.
Under "Accessibility" I had checkmarked options to ignore font sizes and styles on webpages.
Looks fine now.
Learning something every day :)