Dell Dimension 2400 Will not boot. Does not detect HDD or DVD RW drives..

[milmat1]

Dimension 2400 Windows XP (home).    Has Floppy drive and two optical drives, CD ROM, DVD RW.

Pc will POST then warns: Press F1 to retry boot or F2 to enter SETUP. (F1 Just Loops back to same error)

In BIOS only the floppy drive is detected.  all other drives  say UNKNOWN DEVICE.

Nothing has been changed or upgraded, PC was working then simply failed to boot up.

Hard drive is connected to MB with a single ribbon cable (Grey).
Two Optical drives are connected to 2nd port on MB with single (daisy chain) ribbon cable.(White)
Floppy drive is connected to MB port with single ribbon cable.

What I have done:
Spend two days reading on Computerhope.com.....
1, Reseat EVERYTHING, Cables plugs, connectors, memory sticks etc.
2, Clean PC with canned air to remove dust (Lots Of Dust!).
3, Swap Cables from HDD/DVD RW drives.
4, connect HDD leaving all others disconnected. Repeat connecting HDD to other MB slot. (CDROM/DVDRW Slot)
5, Remove HDD and inspect/clean. Hard Drive Does Spin when powered up !
6, Test Power Supply,    GREEN LED on MB is "ON" !
7, reset BIOS ( Disconnect power cord, remove CMOS battery, Hold power button "ON" for 1 minute, Replace battery and reconnect power cord)
While some of these test produce different and expected errors, Machine will not detect the hard drive or optical drives at all.
I am thinking Controller on  mother board has failed or the HDD is defective.  I do not have another HDD or PC to substitute parts at this point. I have not checked HDD jumper/dipswitch settings since this was a running machine. But I will do that anyway...

Question: Have I missed anything?  If the Hard drive has failed would that prevent the detection of the other drives (DVDRW/CDROM)


Any other test or suggestions ??


THANK YOU !

[geek hoodlum]

Aside from swapping the cables, do you have any extra cable there to test the HDD and DVD drive? You may borrow from a friend with a working computer.

[Raptor]

wrong thread. Sorry.

[milmat1]

Aside from swapping the cables, do you have any extra cable there to test the HDD and DVD drive? You may borrow from a friend with a working computer.

Do you mean to test the cables themselves?  Is it likely that two of them would fail at same time ?
I can likely borrow a cable out of another PC and try it.....

I'll try that today....

[Raptor]

Hold power button "ON" for 1 minute

I'm not sure what the problem is but that is not part of resetting the BIOS.

How is the mainboard looking? Any leaking capacitors?
Did you test the RAM?

Does it boot from just a hard drive set to master?

[milmat1]

I'm not sure what the problem is but that is not part of resetting the BIOS.

How is the mainboard looking? Any leaking capacitors?
Did you test the RAM?

Does it boot from just a hard drive set to master?

It is a means of resetting the dell BIOS (from dell support site) I think they have you hold the button "on" for 1 min simply to be certain the pwr supply and MB dies completely...

The MB looks fine, it was very  dirty (dust) But no leaking or bulged caps etc..No resistor damage and no signs of failure...

I do not understand about setting the HD to master and trying it, it is a master . And the only thing on that cable...??

[Allan]

1) Did you use compressed air and clean out the inside of the system? That's not the cause of your problem, but it needs to be done since you said it was very dusty.

2) Try replacing the cmos batter with a new one.

[Raptor]

I do not understand about setting the HD to master and trying it, it is a master . And the only thing on that cable...??

The instructions for master/slave are on the top of the hard drive. The master goes onto the black connector, slave onto the grey. Blue goes into the mainboard.

The problem is that it won't pass POST, yes?

[milmat1]

The instructions for master/slave are on the top of the hard drive. The master goes onto the black connector, slave onto the grey. Blue goes into the mainboard.

The problem is that it won't pass POST, yes?

Correct it will do POST then show the :
"Primary Drive "0"  Not Found"
"Primary Drive "1" Not Found"
"Secondary Drive "0" Not Found"
"Secondary drive "1"  Not Found"
"Press F1 to try reboot or F2 to enter setup"  (pressing F1 loops back to same error.. And Pressing F2 to enter BIOS, It will not detect HDD or DVDRW etc  shows them as Unknown device in BIOS....

[Raptor]

Have you tried Allan's suggestion of replacing the CMOS battery? Some BIOS' don't like it when the voltage drops below a certain point.

It could also be that one of the cables or devices was damaged, sometimes that gives wonky results in the BIOS. The only way to find out is by disconnecting everything and booting with the bare essentials.

[milmat1]

Have you tried Allan's suggestion of replacing the CMOS battery? Some BIOS' don't like it when the voltage drops below a certain point.
I can try that, I assumed since time/date was correct it was good..Good Point  Thanks !!
It could also be that one of the cables or devices was damaged, sometimes that gives wonky results in the BIOS. The only way to find out is by disconnecting everything and booting with the bare essentials.

I tried booting with only the HDD connected all other disconnected,,Even tried it this way while swapping cables.......

I think the only way I'm gonna be able to troubleshoot further is with some substitue parts ??

[Raptor]

So when you boot with just the hard drive, was it set to master?
Have you tried booting with a CD-ROM drive set to master to see if it detects that properly?

Have you tried removing some of the RAM and alternating slots?
Have you disconnected everything but the keyboard, mouse and monitor?

[Raptor]

Apparently, your computer comes with diagnostic lights on the "back panel". What are these set to when the problem occurs?

No beep codes?

[milmat1]

So when you boot with just the hard drive, was it set to master?
Have you tried booting with a CD-ROM drive set to master to see if it detects that properly?

Have you tried removing some of the RAM and alternating slots?
Have you disconnected everything but the keyboard, mouse and monitor?

 Yea, Set HDD to Master "0"  And everything else disconnected,  Same Thing !

Apparently, your computer comes with diagnostic lights on the "back panel". What are these set to when the problem occurs?

No beep codes?

I cannot locate those LEDS, and the "TWO BEEP" code just says Refference Error Message onscreen....

I HAVE NOT tried setting the CDROM as master and see if it will detect that drive alone. I will try this !Which brings the original question "If it does not detect the HDD will it abort looking for the CDROM and DVDRW" ?

Also the Battery Voltage = 2.97VDC !


I will try setting CDROM as master and see if it detects it !

[patio]

If the BIOS is not seeing the HDD chances are the HDD is dead...

[milmat1]

Ok Gats more confusing here,

Setup CD drive as Master and connect it Alone to MB..   

POST still shows Primary drive 0 Not Found However the  BIOS  shows Primary drive 0 as   "CD-DEVICE" 

AND I set the other optical drive (dvd) as Master and POST shows Not Found and BIOS shows  "UNKNOWN DEVICE"..


Is this telling me that the DVD and the HDD are defective ?? Seems unlikely......

[Raptor]

Also the Battery Voltage = 2.97VDC !

Depending on how much the hard drive confuses the system, there's a chance it doesn't detect it. Only one way to find out.

2.97 should be O.K. I'd still replace it just so you can say you did.

AND I set the other optical drive (dvd) as Master and POST shows Not Found and BIOS shows  "UNKNOWN DEVICE"..
Is this telling me that the DVD and the HDD are defective ?? Seems unlikely......

Bad PSU's can wreck hardware. Weakest hardware goes first.

So it detects one DVD-drive properly? Can you boot from it?
Does it work on the other PATA channel?

[milmat1]

Depending on how much the hard drive confuses the system, there's a chance it doesn't detect it. Only one way to find out.

2.97 should be O.K. I'd still replace it just so you can say you did.

Bad PSU's can wreck hardware. Weakest hardware goes first.

So it detects one DVD-drive properly? Can you boot from it?
Does it work on the other PATA channel?

Well One of them will show up in BIOS as CD -device. The other as UNKNOWN DEVICE...

Can't boot from the drive (no disc) AND POST still shows it as Not Found !

 

[Raptor]

Does it work on the other PATA channel?

[patio]

Can't boot from the drive (no disc) AND POST still shows it as Not Found !

Is there a bootable CD in the drive when you are testing this ? ?

[milmat1]

Is there a bootable CD in the drive when you are testing this ? ?

No because I cant find the disc,  Sorry for the confusion !

I am thinking maybe the DVD drive could have been defective and not noticed,  since it is rarely used on this machine. My next step will be to stick this HDD into another PC (Daughters )  as a Slave And see if it will detect it.....I just can't help my instincts telling me MOTHERBOARD !!......

Will update results as soon as I try that...( she's not home at moment)..


.....Matt

[patio]

I hope on your end your instincts are wrong...but it's starting to sound that way...
Good L uck on the slave experiment...

[Raptor]

No because I cant find the disc,  Sorry for the confusion !

So how do you know the ROM-players won't work?

[patio]

That was initially why i asked but he didn't answer...

[milmat1]

OK Sorry for confusion, I didn't think it matters whether the disc was in the drive or not for the POST / BIOS to detect it..

I found the Windows XP disc and drivers etc for this PC and heres where it stands.

  I connected ONLY the CD drive as master connected to primary port, With the Windows disc inserteed, PC WILL BOOT to the windows install !   And will load and run up until it looks for the HDD !  So I  think the HDD took a hit.

However her's what is funny If I connect the HDD back even as Secondary or if i leave the other optical drive connected it wont boot !

 So the defective drive(s) Are preventing the pc from detecting the Good Drive that has the disc ??  Is This Correct ?

[patio]

So the defective drive(s) Are preventing the pc from detecting the Good Drive that has the disc ??  Is This Correct ?

No...
This means 1 or the other drives is jumpered/connected improperly.
It can also mean the BIOS isn't retaining boot order cahanges...usually a sign of a failing CMOS battery.

[milmat1]

No...
This means 1 or the other drives is jumpered/connected improperly.
It can also mean the BIOS isn't retaining boot order cahanges...usually a sign of a failing CMOS battery.

It will only detect the one (CD) drive no matter how I configure it. And if either of the other drives (dvd,hdd) are connected it will fail to see any drive.  This is with each drive configured with jumpers. I can have it working with the CD drive connected alone, power down and connect the other dvd drive OR the HDD  and it will fail to see anything again....

BTW : The original config was the two optical drives on daisy chain ribbon cable connected to Secondary Port. and the HDD connected seperately with single ribbon to Primary port. With Everything set to "Cable Select"....

I will Change battery and recheck jumpers etc. But I'm sure the HDD is dead now so I'll snatch another one and test some more....

[Raptor]

If you can boot from the CD, there's a good chance the mainboard is O.K.

You might want to swap around those data cables as well, just in case they got damaged from all the pulling out and putting back in.

[geek hoodlum]

How about this...

1st - connect only your DVD drive, boot up and go to BIOS, check if BIOS will detect that drive

2nd - connect only the HDD, boot up and go to BIOS, check if BIOS will detect that drive

compare the result

[milmat1]

How about this...

1st - connect only your DVD drive, boot up and go to BIOS, check if BIOS will detect that drive

2nd - connect only the HDD, boot up and go to BIOS, check if BIOS will detect that drive

compare the result

This is exactly how I have determined the failed HDD, However only one of the optical drives will be detected and boot etc..So I still think I have a failed HDD AND have a bad DVDCD drive as well....I should have another HDD to try today and I Agree at this point the MB must be working fine. Just that two drives acting up at sam time really confused the problem...

THANK YOU !!!

[Raptor]

Might be a bad PSU too, as I mentioned earlier on.

[milmat1]

RAPTOR,   You might be close !!

While experimenting here I found that: Still With Old HDD !

1, With Everything connected as per original config :
   Post shows
   Primary Drive 0  Not Found
   Primary Drive 1  Not Found
   Secondary Drive 0 Not Found
   Secondary Drive 1 Not Found
   
Press F1 to CONTINUE  or F2 to enter setup.
 
PRESSING  F1  it Loops back to same error !!!

NOW
2, Leaving everything connected as original config ( Same as Above)  EXCEPT: Dissconnect Power Cable (4 cond.)from CD drive

Post Shows ( same)
 Primary drive 0  Not Found
 Primary Drive 1  Not Found
 Secondary drive 0 Not Found
 Secondary drive 1 Not Found
Press F1 to Continue or F2 to enter setup..
HOWEVER  NOW:Pressing F1  MACHINE BOOTS TO WINDOWS !!


What the heck is happening??  The CD drive corrupting the Power    Causing all the starnge test results with this machine ??

[Raptor]

If an IDE device is wonky, it could prevent all the other drives from being given any attention.

Obviously, some of your IDE drives aren't in order. Have you diagnosed your hard drive yet with Hard Disk Sentinel?

You could also hook up a multimeter to the PSU and see what voltages come out of the yellow and red. It's not much of a test but if the voltages are way above tresholds, it could indicate a faulty PSU that's been wrecking controllers.

[milmat1]

If an IDE device is wonky, it could prevent all the other drives from being given any attention.

Obviously, some of your IDE drives aren't in order. Have you diagnosed your hard drive yet with Hard Disk Sentinel?

You could also hook up a multimeter to the PSU and see what voltages come out of the yellow and red. It's not much of a test but if the voltages are way above tresholds, it could indicate a faulty PSU that's been wrecking controllers.

With everything connected I have measured the DC voltage at one of the Unused Drive power connectors, 11.97 and 4.99 VDC Reff to ground.

Once I got it booted I booted to utility partition and ran all the hdd test. Read,Seek,Smart,Confidence etc on the HDD and everything passed, Also ran the test on Memory and processor and everything passes...I am pretty lost at this point...

I am thankfull that it will boot now even with the added steps because I retrieved all the files I figured were gone forever....

"some of your IDE drives aren't in order"  I don't underst and this comletely but they are back to original connections. The drive that has the problem (CD DRIVE) is connected in the middle pos of the cable from the secondary, Then the DVD dric=ve is at the last pos of that cable. And it is a Cable Select cable and drives are set to C-SEL.......

 The HDD is connected by a single 80 cond cable to the primary port...

Is there anything I can do to "Delete" the CD drive so it doesnt look for it at all     //


I wanted this to be a learning experience and It sure has been .......sheeeew  !

[Raptor]

With everything connected I have measured the DC voltage at one of the Unused Drive power connectors, 11.97 and 4.99 VDC Reff to ground.

Very neat values.

"some of your IDE drives aren't in order"  I don't underst and this comletely but they are back to original connections. The drive that has the problem (CD DRIVE) is connected in the middle pos of the cable from the secondary, Then the DVD dric=ve is at the last pos of that cable. And it is a Cable Select cable and drives are set to C-SEL.......

Is there anything I can do to "Delete" the CD drive so it doesnt look for it at all     //

Is the CD-ROM drive still giving you problems? Why not just leave it out, then? You already have a DVD-drive.

I'd use master/slave instead of cable select although some mainboards prefer the latter.

[milmat1]

Is the CD-ROM drive still giving you problems? Why not just leave it out, then? You already have a DVD-drive.

Only in that I am trying to understand why it stills gives the POST error of not finding the drives etc Which adds the extra step of booting up. (Having to hit F1 to continue".)..I thought that might be because it is still looking for that drive that is dissconnected...And I mistaken on that ?  Or is that simply due to the cable arrangment still being C-SEL maybe ?

[Raptor]

So all the devices work under Windows but the BIOS still tells you that it can not find the devices?

Did you take some of the devices off "Auto" configuration in the BIOS? Is the hard drive manually configured?

[milmat1]

So all the devices work under Windows but the BIOS still tells you that it can not find the devices?

Did you take some of the devices off "Auto" configuration in the BIOS? Is the hard drive manually configured?

I am such an idiot ( I warned ya'll about that!).....

I went to the BIOS and set the missing drive from Auto to OFF !!  Now it is running normal and booting correctly, I am just minus the one optical drive (No Biggie!)........

This has been a great learning experience and I cannot thank you all enough for hanging in there with me !!

And a Special Thanks to you RAPTOR !! 


I am sure to create more consufion as I study learn and ask stupid questions. But I am really glad to find this site and a great group of people !!!

[Raptor]

Good job.