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Author Topic: Winows 7 Disk Imaging  (Read 11444 times)

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GLOOPS

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    Winows 7 Disk Imaging
    « on: April 23, 2012, 04:44:11 AM »
    Hi guys!  ;D

    Not long ago I posted up here with regard to imaging my hard drive.  I got lots of help and have now sorted my problem but I think I have gone for overkill! (lol)  :o

    By that I mean that I have got hold of two HD imaging programs and I now take at least TWO image backups of my hard drive.  One I use is Windows 7's own imaging program.   Am I overkilling do you guys think?   I am asking, I suppose if Win 7 imaging program can be trusted to do the job, without using my Acronis and Paragon gizmos?

    What say you guys???   ???

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    Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
    « Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 10:31:24 AM »
    Of the three you mention..
    I con retinue to use Acronis.

    jason2074



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    Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
    « Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 11:43:14 PM »
    Having two images is better than one. :)

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    Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
    « Reply #3 on: April 24, 2012, 12:00:11 AM »
    Having two images is better than one. :)
    Yeah Until you have confidence in one, use two.
    Notably some users have found the backup system did not work as they thought. 

    It is useful to have a spare hard drive on hand to verify that the restore process telly works. Do not do a restore when you not need it;. but use a spare hard drive to verify the restore procedure. Acronis can start from a flash drive. Or a CD. See if you can get Acronis to restore to a blank drive from the backup. This will ensure you understand the method and the hardware is right.

    Look for Acronis Boot Disk in the documentation.
    The other programs should have the same features.

    GLOOPS

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      Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
      « Reply #4 on: April 24, 2012, 02:00:13 AM »
      Yeah Until you have confidence in one, use two.
      Notably some users have found the backup system did not work as they thought. 

      It is useful to have a spare hard drive on hand to verify that the restore process telly works. Do not do a restore when you not need it;. but use a spare hard drive to verify the restore procedure. Acronis can start from a flash drive. Or a CD. See if you can get Acronis to restore to a blank drive from the backup. This will ensure you understand the method and the hardware is right.

      Look for Acronis Boot Disk in the documentation.
      The other programs should have the same features.


      Yes I have a couple of 'passports' and an external HD as well.  I have all the CD's that help install the images also.  I have successfully restored from both Acronis AND Windows imaging in the past, so I am farely confident of the restoring procedure.   I guess I am trying to cut my work down to using just one image maker rather than more.  It takes a fair amount of time to image the HD.   Win 7 is the quickest. Acronis and Paragon take forever! (lol)   ;D

      patio

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      Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
      « Reply #5 on: April 24, 2012, 06:13:48 AM »
      I image 2 PC's and my benchtest machine every other week...
      Once a month i burn the latest image to DVD and store it off site.

      Worst case scenario of a fatal crash and i'm 2 weeks back as far as data goes...

      Works for me.
      " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

      GLOOPS

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #6 on: April 25, 2012, 02:02:23 AM »
        I image 2 PC's and my benchtest machine every other week...
        Once a month i burn the latest image to DVD and store it off site.

        Worst case scenario of a fatal crash and i'm 2 weeks back as far as data goes...

        Works for me.

        What program do you use buddy? ;)

        patio

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #7 on: April 25, 2012, 07:31:18 AM »
        Acronis True Image.

        " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

        Allan

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #8 on: April 25, 2012, 07:41:22 AM »

        Salmon Trout

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #9 on: April 27, 2012, 02:08:35 PM »
        I am asking, I suppose if Win 7 imaging program can be trusted to do the job, without using my Acronis and Paragon gizmos?

        Since Win98 days I have been making image backups; I used Norton Ghost 8 right through to XP. 2 years ago I built a Shuttle barebones (AMD Phenom, Windows 7 Professional 64 bit) and I have been using the built in Windows 7 disk imaging tool. I created a bootable CD and I have successfully restored from image 3 times now (when I needed to) and before that a couple of times just to test that I actually could do a restore if I ever needed to. I personally don't see the need to try anything else. I have 2 external hard drives and I alternate them. I never let either image get more than 7 days old. If I ever need to I can mount an image (which is in VHD format) as a drive letter in Windows and recover selected files without having to do a full image restore.

        patio

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 03:56:50 PM »
        Only reason i didn't and won't try 7's imaging is when Vista came out i did an image using their built in feature...
        2 weeks later when i needed it (new build) it failed miserably...

        Good to hear they did some much needed work on it...
        " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

        Salmon Trout

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #11 on: April 27, 2012, 04:03:22 PM »
        I would never trust a backup strategy that I have not tested completely on my hardware. I also tried Acronis and I could not get the bootable CD to work. It always froze. Maybe I was just unlucky. , The Windows 7 native imaging tool has never let me down.

        patio

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #12 on: April 27, 2012, 06:45:55 PM »
        So we have identical issues with different products...
        Interesting.
        What i learned years ago is if you rely on any backup app and never test the actual backups you are a victim of a false sense of security...

        P.S. It happened years ago when i also used Ghost...i learned the hard way.
        " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

        Salmon Trout

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #13 on: April 28, 2012, 01:29:58 AM »
        I have seen on the Web that Acronis boot disk failure has been a known issue with some motherboard chipsets... the problem I had was it would hang on "Starting Acronis Loader..." - multiple CDs, different burners, from separately downloaded ISOs. I also had a similar problem with Paragon Backup And Recovery 10.

        Salmon Trout

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #14 on: April 28, 2012, 02:36:51 AM »
        The solutions other than Windows have to use a customized/branded Linux boot CD; at the time I first started using my system I found that certain Linux bootable CDs would not boot; the Windows 7 DVD of course boots on my system; this disk also contains the recovery environment; it seemed like a no-brainer, especially after I had tested the recovery process.

        patio

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #15 on: April 28, 2012, 10:33:20 AM »
        I'm gonna go ahead and test it on my 64bit Win7 build...

        I'll post back with results.
        " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

        Computer_Commando



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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #16 on: April 28, 2012, 04:11:09 PM »
        Have you tried Macrium with Win7-64?  I've used it a number of times to restore images from WinXP.
        Interested to see what you think of the Win7 backup.  My only Win7 machine is a laptop & have no easy way to test the image restore process.

        Salmon Trout

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 05:05:04 PM »
        Have you tried Macrium with Win7-64?  I've used it a number of times to restore images from WinXP.
        Interested to see what you think of the Win7 backup.  My only Win7 machine is a laptop & have no easy way to test the image restore process.

        Macrium free edition seems limited, and why pay for something you have (in Windows 7) already? I don't see what difference it makes if the Windows 7 machine is a laptop; Whether the computer is portable or fixed you can still image to an external drive.

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #18 on: April 28, 2012, 07:31:10 PM »
        Macrium free edition seems limited, and why pay for something you have (in Windows 7) already? I don't see what difference it makes if the Windows 7 machine is a laptop; Whether the computer is portable or fixed you can still image to an external drive.
        Yes, but you better test the ability to boot the CD for a restore. Hard to verify on a laptop.

        Salmon Trout

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #19 on: April 29, 2012, 01:40:18 AM »
        Yes, but you better test the ability to boot the CD for a restore. Hard to verify on a laptop.

        No harder than on a desktop, whether you are using an internal or external CD drive. In fact, I have installed the Windows 7 recovery CD on a bootable pen drive for greater flexibilty.

        patio

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #20 on: April 29, 2012, 05:19:41 AM »
        He may mean he doesn't currently have an external drive to image to...

        BTW I have not tested it on 64bit Windows...
        " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

        Computer_Commando



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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #21 on: April 29, 2012, 07:18:00 AM »
        Don't have a spare internal laptop drive.

        Salmon Trout

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #22 on: April 29, 2012, 07:35:25 AM »
        Don't have a spare internal laptop drive.

        Why do you think you need one? The normal way of imaging is to an external USB or FireWire drive.

        Computer_Commando



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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #23 on: April 29, 2012, 10:41:22 AM »
        You misunderstand.  I have no way of testing the image other than restoring to the existing laptop drive.  If it fails, I would have to rebuild the laptop drive from the Restore Partition or the Win7 DVD.  I have 2 USB drives for creating the images:  USB3.0-1TB; USB2.0-320GB

        Salmon Trout

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #24 on: April 29, 2012, 12:25:49 PM »
        You misunderstand.  I have no way of testing the image other than restoring to the existing laptop drive.  If it fails, I would have to rebuild the laptop drive from the Restore Partition or the Win7 DVD.  I have 2 USB drives for creating the images:  USB3.0-1TB; USB2.0-320GB

        I see what you mean; I did my first restore test straight after a new install so I had nothing to lose.

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #25 on: April 29, 2012, 01:16:40 PM »
        I see what you mean; I did my first restore test straight after a new install so I had nothing to lose.
        So doing a worst case verification of a restore method has some risk for a user with just a laptop and an external drive or network storage. In worst case even the recovery partition could be lost. The average user would be at a lose as to how to proceed in such a worst case scenario.

        To test a restore method, a package of software and hardware,  with a laptop, one would purchase another internal drive of the same type  and close to the same size. Perform the test on the spare drive, if it goes SNAFU, go back to the original drive and send a nasty e-mail to then vendor of the backup package.

        Yes, I have made the mistake when I got my laptop. I was unable to clone the drive correctly and lots the recovery partition. Maybe it  would be too much  to have backup software vender warn you that the software does not correctly clone the recovery partition.

        So I rebuilt my system with a different version of XP from a OEM CD. But I no longer have a recovery partition and lave no idea of how to create it. But I do keep more than one backup on hard.

        Salmon Trout

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #26 on: April 29, 2012, 01:44:13 PM »
        I was unable to clone the drive correctly and lots the recovery partition. Maybe it  would be too much  to have backup software vender warn you that the software does not correctly clone the recovery partition.

        We're not talking about disk cloning here, but rather of using software in Windows to create an image file of the system partition, and of later restoring that partition where it belongs. Any such process carries dangers if not correctly carried out, but not doing any backup, or assuming that a restore will work when needed, have their dangers too. I think we are making too much of the dangers. I have used Ghost for around 10 years and Windows 7 imaging for 2, and I have never had a problem in all of that time. I must have done dozens of restores.

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #27 on: April 29, 2012, 03:18:39 PM »
        Quote
        I have used Ghost for around 10 years and Windows 7 imaging for 2, and I have never had a problem in all of that time. I must have done dozens of restores.

        You are an expert. I am an average person. I have used Ghost for as many years as years and have had several failures. Fortunately, I did not depend on those attempts for critical work. Most of the time. There were some times I became very, very disappointed. So I learned.

        My pint is that you have not way of knowing a method is going to work until you use it. The first time you use it has an unacceptable risk level. Unless you have some alternative n resource that is remover for the process. Namely, another drive that has the original aterial and not connected to the laptop.

        The real problem is education. The user is not given enough education about how computers do fail and fail very badly. The fact that the failure rate may be one in 10,000 is not consolation  when the failure was a fatal 100 % loss of data. Yet  Automobile makers get sued if one out of 10,000 has a fatal accident.

        The computer manufacturers are providing restore partitions for the users. That is not enough.  There should be a way to resonate the OS withing dependency on the restore partition.  Those who are experts take care of this. The uninitiated are at the mercy of vendors  or makers who offer far too little support.

        A bad backup/restore program can destroy almost anything on the hard drive, including partition table. Yes, I know is is not supposed to. I am talking about a program Thant has not been verified. You don't know what it can do. The computer makers are in a beater position to provide users with fool-proof methods.

        Happily, Windows 7 has built-in features that make backup, restore and repair easier that before. Still, a new user needs to learn how to use them well. Unless one never uses the computer for serious work.

        Salmon Trout

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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #28 on: April 29, 2012, 03:31:04 PM »
        You are an expert. I am an average person.

        I am not an expert, I am an average person. One thing I do, though, is try to read instructions very carefully before doing anything critical. I must say that certainly in a Windows 7 imaging situation, and also probably using other tools, there is a lot you can do to build confidence without actually risking anything, e.g.: make a backup image, make a recovery disk, test it to see that it boots and also that the image restore tool can find the image, in fact do everything to restore the image except the final "OK" click. The bottom line is that if you say "I won't test if I can restore from a backup because I am scared of screwing up or of it failing" then you are in a situation where your backup might be some use, or it might not. If that is acceptable, then OK. I'd rather bite the bullet and check every step. Before doing a backup + restore of a working installation I would separately backup everything critical - Outlook pst files, each users My Documents, all personal files, etc just in case. I do these things weekly anyway.

        Geek-9pm


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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #29 on: April 29, 2012, 04:05:08 PM »
        Salmon Trout, That was a good com back. Hope all read it.
        Still. I am mot giving you another beer.  :)

        Computer_Commando



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        Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
        « Reply #30 on: April 29, 2012, 04:34:40 PM »
        We're not talking about disk cloning here, but rather of using software in Windows to create an image file of the system partition, and of later restoring that partition where it belongs. Any such process carries dangers if not correctly carried out, but not doing any backup, or assuming that a restore will work when needed, have their dangers too. I think we are making too much of the dangers. I have used Ghost for around 10 years and Windows 7 imaging for 2, and I have never had a problem in all of that time. I must have done dozens of restores.
        I, too, have used Ghost (DOS version) for 10 years.  It has let me down a couple times not due to Ghost itself but probably the backup medium.  I only use it now on an old laptop with Win2k which I image to a USB flash drive because the laptop is unable to power the USB HDD.  I have used Macrium 2-3 times to clone XP images to nearly identical laptops.  The original image was created on a USB hard drive on 1 laptop & then restored to the remaining 2, then specific drivers installed.

        GLOOPS

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          Re: Winows 7 Disk Imaging
          « Reply #31 on: May 10, 2012, 05:22:51 AM »
          Hmmm Well I have successfully restored from Windows and Acronis backups.  Guess we all have our different ways.  What works for you I guess is the answer here.  Thanks anyways you guys!  ;D ;D