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DaveLembke

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Holographic Storage - Sept. 2012 article
« on: February 21, 2013, 04:00:32 PM »
Figured I'd share this and post it here vs computer news since the article is almost 6 months old and not latest news. Came across it when digging into information on the future of optical storage. A short while back Sony stated that they are pulling out of the optical storage drive market. And I was curious as to if any other companies stepped up to the plate to take optical storage further or if it has a doomed future due to the cloud.

But first I would like to state that:

I personally like storing my data locally and having control over it. Even though I have some free cloud space online through google and amazon etc, I dont use it.

I also like to store my data in a manner that protects it over time, such as I have had to migrate floppies to CD-R's, then migrate CD-R's to DVD-R's, and only storing long term on DVD-R's is where I am at now, and I haven't made the leap to Blu-Ray storage because the media is still costly for 25GB storage per disc and storing 5 DVD-R's to a single-sided Blu-Ray is not that appealing, so I have stuck with 4.7GB per disc. Looking into Holographic Storage with 1.6TB of storage as of 2010 would be so sweet if it was affordable.

I have my data on a large external hard drive, but I treat it as a single point of failure, all eggs in one basket approach to ease of access long term mass storage and not write protected from infections like optical storage, and susceptable to many weaknesses. All critical data that is also stored on this external is also burned to DVD-R's just in case the external drive should ever fail.

Back when I got my first optical writable drive, a CD-R drive, I had stacks of floppies with up to 720k or 1.44MB per disk, and being able to get rid of hundreds of floppies (literally able to sqeeze (451) floppies or more per CD-R disc )and burn a CD with all the data on it was so sweet. I drilled holes through stacks of floppies and threw out a 30 gallon trash bag full of them 13 years ago. These days I am looking for a similar storage leap in which potentially (340) DVD-R's can be squeezed onto a single 1.6TB Holographic Disc.

Most people would be happy with just buying a 3TB external hard drive, and maybe buy two of them a master and slave to perform backups to, since how often would both fail to create a total data loss.  But I like optical storage in that its protected from infections and other threats by design.

You can have two 3TB external drives and connect one and get it infected and then connect the other and infect the pair, then depending on the nature of the virus you could be lucky in just scanning a drive that still works and cleaning it or dealing with two drives that no longer read and of which the partition tables are trashed etc. The other feature of optical storage I like is the simplicity of it. The data is on an optical disc which can be inserted into another optical drive that is compatible to access the data.

A standard HDD has platters (discs) that are bound to the surrounding mechanicals and electronics and are not easily transferrable to another drive without data loss.

SSD's are great, but you then have all the data on the drive bound to trusting that a chip will not fail. Chips are sensitive to Aging and falling out of tolerance, Static Discharge, Solar Flares, and EMP's. I feel its only a matter of time before the earth is struck with a solar flare that proves that smaller more complex, and denser electronic design is not always better and makes the devices more sensitive to such a threat for data loss and cooked chips. I own three SSD drives and they are NOT for long term storage, they are for SPEED!

Optical storage is immune to all that is stated under the SSD's except for aging! Reading up on the holographic storage media they claim its good for 50 years under the right storage conditions. Sure the optical drives could get wiped out by these threats, but the drives could always be recreated to support the media and the data is still there, or you can find a drive that had not been damaged and pop the media in and have it.

As far as the cloud goes, its great for people who want their data anywhere that they have an internet connection, and have blind trust that their data is safe from prying eyes and data harvesting routines etc.

But the free cloud storage must come at a cost! Most things that are free are not. And if your not paying for it, someone else is! They are funded somehow through either advertising and data market research farming as you navigate to acquire your data or by unknown identities interested in peoples habits, interests, personal information, and so on that they can sniff out of your stored information on their servers in a manner that is borderline invasion of privacy, but of which a programmed routine is prying for information and only reporting back legally accessible information based on the information you have stored there. BUT can also cross the legal privacy line towards illegal invasions of privacy without anyone knowing what goes on beyond the friendly companies outter perceived appearance. ALSO... your data is on say a bank of drives and the company upgrades migrating your data to a new group of drives. If that company is sloppy and does not destroy or scrub the drives clean of data it is then potentially accessable by whomever acquires the hardware, and once again no longer in your control.

And now for the article that I linked:

Holographic storage may yet knock magnetic media off its perch
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/computing-components/storage/whatever-happened-to-holographic-storage-1099304

Also added this link to Maxell optical storage timeline which is interesting on page 5 of 6 on this PDF:
http://www.maxellcanada.com/pdfs/pi/optical_media_technologies.pdf

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Re: Holographic Storage - Sept. 2012 article
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2013, 05:44:33 PM »
Figured I'd share this and post it here vs computer news since the article is almost 6 months old and not latest news. Came across it when digging into information on the future of optical storage. A short while back Sony stated that they are pulling out of the optical storage drive market. And I was curious as to if any other companies stepped up to the plate to take optical storage further or if it has a doomed future due to the cloud.
I'm not sure I understand this. Sony has been part of the working group, but it hasn't been the only company. My understanding is the standards are part of a corporate group effort by Sony,Phillips, and possibly a few other companies. Sony isn't a one-man band, here.

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I personally like storing my data locally and having control over it. Even though I have some free cloud space online through google and amazon etc, I dont use it.
me too! 'Cloud Storage' is a bit of a silly term when it could just be called "Stored on another person's computer" while also showing the risks you take with that approach.

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I also like to store my data in a manner that protects it over time, such as I have had to migrate floppies to CD-R's, then migrate CD-R's to DVD-R's, and only storing long term on DVD-R's is where I am at now, and I haven't made the leap to Blu-Ray storage because the media is still costly for 25GB storage per disc and storing 5 DVD-R's to a single-sided Blu-Ray is not that appealing, so I have stuck with 4.7GB per disc. Looking into Holographic Storage with 1.6TB of storage as of 2010 would be so sweet if it was affordable.
Not to trivialize your point here, but I cannot see how you would create that much data. The only thing I can think of is this is some sort of backup archival storage system? In which case I'm forced to wonder- aloud- whether the data on your floppy disks really needs to be switched over or whether it's obsolete? What I mean is- can you think of when you might ever need that SiS Virge Windows 3.1 Video Driver, type deal.

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I have my data on a large external hard drive, but I treat it as a single point of failure, all eggs in one basket approach to ease of access long term mass storage and not write protected from infections like optical storage, and susceptable to many weaknesses. All critical data that is also stored on this external is also burned to DVD-R's just in case the external drive should ever fail.

Again, my main question here is not how you should store this information, but rather culling out what you don't need. Your storage issues seem to stem from a sort of "packrat" attitude. One I can 100% understand, because I have it myself. It seems when I decide to delete a folder or files it doesn't take long for me to realize that I needed them.


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Back when I got my first optical writable drive, a CD-R drive, I had stacks of floppies with up to 720k or 1.44MB per disk, and being able to get rid of hundreds of floppies (literally able to sqeeze (451) floppies or more per CD-R disc )and burn a CD with all the data on it was so sweet. I drilled holes through stacks of floppies and threw out a 30 gallon trash bag full of them 13 years ago. These days I am looking for a similar storage leap in which potentially (340) DVD-R's can be squeezed onto a single 1.6TB Holographic Disc.
Tape Drives. Some high capacity Tape Drives go up to 20GB and 40GB.

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Most people would be happy with just buying a 3TB external hard drive, and maybe buy two of them a master and slave to perform backups to, since how often would both fail to create a total data loss.  But I like optical storage in that its protected from infections and other threats by design.
Backup systems are best done in layers.  Then the issue is stale data. To me though it really sounds like you are backing up stuff you just don't need to backup. This might be heavily weighted by my own preferences, but this is my strategy:

I try to only ever backup things I created. Things like my Wallpapers (125 or so at this point, constituting over 100GB of Photoshop files... :P) My APplication Source code, and pretty much only the things I created. Some specific things other people backup that I don't:

The Operating System. That is, a lot of people suggest creating Disk Images on a regular basis. I can understand that- the purpose being that you can easily be back in the game after a disaster. My approach is to use PowerArchiver's (Archiving program, paid, but totally awesome) in-built backup script to zip up my important Source-code folders into a 7-zip file, which get's stored on my second hard drive. When the drive storage get's into the red, I burn the latest archives from the backup folder (as many as can fit, usually 4) to a DVD-R drive, and delete the rest.

Arguably I don't even need to back them up, since most of them have remote repositories on github or elsewhere, which is also why I have no problem erasing older backups. For example if I decide "hmm, I kind of like the implementation I used last week" I can just grab the appropriate source from the repository history.

of course that is VERY specific, and the main reason  I don't backup more is  simply because there is too much data I would have to backup, and not enoguh time or space to put it all and keep it fresh- my 750GB as well as my 1.5TB are both +90% full, and that is after moving a lot of data to my smaller External Drives. So I prioritize: I know from experience it's a lot faster to reinstall an OS, redownload an application, or set application preferences than it is to rewrite software from the ground up, so I do my best to avoid that scenario. I have had some awesome failures at that, like my attempt to refresh my remote git repository resulting in me deleting everything I had done in the past week (Windows Volume Shadow Copy to the rescue!)


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You can have two 3TB external drives and connect one and get it infected and then connect the other and infect the pair, then depending on the nature of the virus you could be lucky in just scanning a drive that still works and cleaning it or dealing with two drives that no longer read and of which the partition tables are trashed etc.
You are VASTLY overestimating what malware is currently capable of. The worst I can see happening is a File Infector infecting the Executables stored on that drive. Malware that spreads to external drives is usually doing that to try to spread- by corrupting the Partition table or other things like that it simply prevents itself from spreading successfully, which sort of defeats the purpose. Nonetheless, your purpose here is OK- it's just a layered backup, which you want in case your primary backup is corrupted or broken for any reason. Malware corruption is far less likely than a standard Hard drive failure, but since the actions should protect from either situation it's still a good approach.

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The other feature of optical storage I like is the simplicity of it. The data is on an optical disc which can be inserted into another optical drive that is compatible to access the data.

A standard HDD has platters (discs) that are bound to the surrounding mechanicals and electronics and are not easily transferrable to another drive without data loss.
Hard Drives are easily installed into enclosures or other Systems, though.

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SSD's are great, but you then have all the data on the drive bound to trusting that a chip will not fail. Chips are sensitive to Aging and falling out of tolerance, Static Discharge, Solar Flares, and EMP's. I feel its only a matter of time before the earth is struck with a solar flare that proves that smaller more complex, and denser electronic design is not always better and makes the devices more sensitive to such a threat for data loss and cooked chips. I own three SSD drives and they are NOT for long term storage, they are for SPEED!
the Flash Storage on a SSD drive Is susceptible to EMP. This also  why they generally have shielding that creates a faraday cage around the drive, protecting it from any EMP interference; otherwise you could set all the bits of a SSD drive to 1 by holding it above your head while underneath a power line. Magnetic Platter drives are probably more sensitive to Electromagnetic discharge, simply because our Magnetic drives are not inside a faraday cage like construction. This is just a guess, of course. My point is I doubt either one is more susceptible to the behaviour. Honestly I think you have worse "opponents" to your backup strategy than Solar Flares and Malware. The big one being just everyday Hard Drive failure, or things as simple as user error.

I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

DaveLembke

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Re: Holographic Storage - Sept. 2012 article
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2013, 06:45:55 PM »
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Again, my main question here is not how you should store this information, but rather culling out what you don't need. Your storage issues seem to stem from a sort of "packrat" attitude. One I can 100% understand, because I have it myself. It seems when I decide to delete a folder or files it doesn't take long for me to realize that I needed them.

While I do have tons of old data that is probably not needed such as old DOS games that I haven't executed in years, this data is all in very small files etc, so while the file count is high, the space consumed is around 1GB tops from like 600 floppies.

As far as data I created, programs, research, etc its likely less than 1GB. However I do have a digital technical library I created copying webpages for offline use etc and PDF's for later use etc which amounts to about 20GB.

I also have programs I purchased online and 1 time download etc over the years with PDF's stored in their folders with the keys/license receipt/ proof of purchase etc that amounts to around 100GB.

The vast amount of space I consume is actually digital videos from my wife and I using HD video cameras on vacations, birthdays, sports events, etc which while they have a 16GB SD card in them, they have to be dumped frequently to make room for new videos and pictures. I have about 600GB of family videos. Of which I have deleted the stupid ones and kept the ones worth keeping. My Music CD's I converted to MP3 a while back in the highest quality and that eats up about 120GB and took almost a month to convert my hundreds of music CD's that I acquired from the early 1990s to date.

I also have a collection of the many Linux ISO downloads which climbed to as high as almost 350GB of images, and I have since deleted most of the way out dated ISO's like RedHat 6 and Fedora 5 etc and kept the modern images which amount to less than 100GB now, as well as I have about 30GB of Open Source Tools etc that I use at random times depending on what I am working with. I use to have Ghost 2003 and Ghost 8 images on my external, but deleted them when deciding it was best to just go with 1 or 2 DVD-R disks to rebuild a Windows XP system quickly with vs having to mount an external drive with a Ghost Boot Disk etc.

So I guess the massive storage needed is mainly due to videos that I dont want to lose, which can not be replaced. I rarely access this data, but have occasionally played some of them to my daughter to show her what she looked like and acted when she was younger etc. KIDS GROW UP TOO FAST!

And yes, I have deleted old drivers from a driver collection/hoard I had a while back and found myself digging online researching for the driver for an oddball chipset before, so while its probably junk data that can be purged from storage at some point, I learned that if it doesnt eat up too much space such as 300k, just leave it be in storage..LOL