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Author Topic: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces  (Read 16152 times)

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Mulreay

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Most households in the UK will have pornography blocked by their internet provider unless they choose to receive it, David Cameron has announced.

In addition, the prime minister said possessing online pornography depicting rape would become illegal in England and Wales - in line with Scotland.

Mr Cameron warned in a speech that access to online pornography was "corroding childhood".


Seven years ago David Cameron told a Google conference that politicians should encourage companies to change, not over-regulate them.

Today, he announced he had reached agreement with the four biggest ISPs on pornography filters, after some behind the scenes tussling.

But he hinted that if search engines like Google didn't agree to a blacklist of search terms, he would legislate.

From Downing St, he can supplement the art of persuasion with the smack of firm government.

Back in his opposition days, Cameron made waves presenting himself as a man on the side of parents against firms that sold chocolates at checkouts and children's bikinis.

If he can mould a similar image in Downing St, as a PM doing battle with big business on behalf of fellow parents, he will be more than happy.

Mr Cameron also called for some "horrific" internet search terms to be "blacklisted", meaning they would automatically bring up no results on websites such as Google or Bing.

He told the BBC he expected a "row" with service providers who, he said in his speech, were "not doing enough to take responsibility" despite having a "moral duty" to do so.

He also warned he could have to "force action" by changing the law and that, if there were "technical obstacles", firms should use their "greatest brains" to overcome them.

Full story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23401076
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soybean



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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2013, 06:02:19 AM »
Watching from afar, I generally like things David Cameron does, including this. 

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2013, 06:10:47 AM »
"Tip of the iceberg" springs to mind.  Changing the law to block search terms, blocking access to an entire category of websites, all in the name of "oh, won't somebody please think of the children?".   I haven't searched much on this but does anybody know how they propose to implement this?
The onus is on parents to not only manage their child's access to the internet - by which I mean properly supervise - but to educate them that not everything on the internet is suitable and good, just as not everything in life is roses.  I feel this is just one more example of the government attempting to do parents' jobs for them, because the parents aren't doing it, and in a few years the cry will be "the government failed my child, they saw x and y and it can't possibly be my fault".
Finally, this still will not prevent what it's meant to prevent.  Let's be honest, if a kid wants to see that stuff, they'll find a way.  If an adult wants to see something which will be blocked under the "horrific search terms" part, they'll find a way.  A cynical part of me also wonders if those that want the filter off will be subject to more scrutiny for wanting to view completely legitimate sites which have been around for well over a decade.

I realise my opinion is likely to be counter to most, so I have donned my flame suit in anticipation.

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2013, 06:13:32 AM »
Watching from afar, I generally like things David Cameron does, including this. 

Without getting political, Cameron is a lying fascist maggot, who is introducing censorship and government snooping through the backdoor. PARENTS should be looking after their children...... He's feeding himself and elitist rich friends while people here queue at food banks because they're starving.

On another note, if the BBC report it, it must be biased...........
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Calum

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2013, 06:15:16 AM »
Quote
PARENTS should be looking after their children

Get out of here with your radical opinions!  That's crazy talk.

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2013, 06:19:10 AM »

Get out of here with your radical opinions!  That's crazy talk.

I know, i'm mental.......mental  ;)
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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2013, 07:15:33 AM »
Quote
PARENTS should be looking after their children......
Of course, but you impose a very heavy burden on parents in this day of modern media with its pervading presence.  When I was a kid - which, I'll have to admit, was long before the era of the Internet - parents simply did not have to deal with this.  For those of you who are not yet parents, expressing such a viewpoint is not surprising; it's a very easy viewpoint to express when you are not a parent.  But, if you've become parents 10 or 20 years from now, I suspect your attitude on this subject may change a bit.  You may say that won't happen but only time will tell.

reddevilggg



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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2013, 07:23:19 AM »

For those of you who are not yet parents, expressing such a viewpoint is not surprising; it's a very easy viewpoint to express when you are not a parent.

I have 2 girls, 10 and 14 years old. Being a parent isn't a burden.
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Calum

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2013, 07:37:05 AM »
I grew up with the internet easily accessible, my parents dealt with this by talking to me and supervising my internet usage at first, then gradually relaxing as they realised I could be trusted.  My sister, being 3 years younger than me, had even easier access to the internet, and it and media in general had a much heavier presence even within that time.  Again, my parents supervised her at first, and taught her what was right and wrong.
When we were younger, and wanted to go and play on the street, they did the same thing - supervised us to begin with, laid down some ground rules of what we should and shouldn't do, and off we went.
Ultimately, a child's safety is the parents' responsibility.

patio

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2013, 07:42:26 AM »
The real issue here should be the Gov.t making a wholesale decision without representation of a popular vote from the people they are charged to represent...
That's all i'll say on the matter.
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

reddevilggg



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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2013, 07:46:23 AM »

The real issue here should be the Gov.t making a wholesale decision without representation of a popular vote from the people they are charged to represent...
That's all i'll say on the matter.

Agreed, Cameron always think he knows best. Pretty confident for someone who was not even voted in.......
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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2013, 02:04:57 PM »
Most households in the UK will have pornography blocked by their internet provider unless they choose to receive it, David Cameron has announced.
Does he realize how INEFFECTIVE this will be? It's like the whole blocking of piracy sites all over again. It won't stop anybody from actually using it. In this case all it will do is give lazy parents a happy thought blanket of not having to worry that little Jimmy took the entire box of tissues to his room, because their benevolent overseer government has blocked pornographic materials. All it will really do is keep parents out of the loop. The younger generations that have grown up with modern PCs are unilaterally more savvy than their parents or those of the older generation. These blocks will only be a blip on their radar if they really want content, and the belief that the content is being blocked will prevent parents from actually taking responsibility for trying to give their children a moral framework on which to present decisions. As usual when it comes to crack-pots like this guy, they seem ot view morality as a punitive restraint. a penalty that we are obliged to bear for being human. As such it's only natural that such unrealistic doofuses would endorse a standard informed by prohibitions backed by personal threats and psychological and legal sanctions.

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In addition, the prime minister said possessing online pornography depicting rape would become illegal in England and Wales - in line with Scotland.
This one seems to be a bit of a slippery slope stemming from the obvious and reasonable illegality of other questionable materials, such as child pornography. However I think in this case it's a lot different. Child Pornography has huge moral and legal issues in that the subjects are never of legal age and cannot consent; additionally the very act of creating the material is child abuse in it's purest form. It's illegal and amoral and the only way a person could thing otherwise is if they themselves are immoral. *cough* Richard Stallman *cough* The difference is that in pornography depicting rape it is actors that are older and able to create and form their own decisions and who willingly take part in such recordings; making this illegal is only done in terms of the subjective moral framework of Cameron himself.

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Mr Cameron warned in a speech that access to online pornography was "corroding childhood".
Does he have any peer-reviewed studies that quantify this corrosion? No, of course not. It's a blanket statement made to get the support of old people that are so out of touch with technology they hate everything about it and related to it by default.

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Seven years ago David Cameron told a Google conference that politicians should encourage companies to change, not over-regulate them.
Isn't creating legislation on the issue forcing them to change? Also why does this scumbag think his morality is some form of objective truth?

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But he hinted that if search engines like Google didn't agree to a blacklist of search terms, he would legislate.
Ahh. Basically: "Do what we say willingly or we will force you to do it." You know who else might say something like that? Rapists.

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Back in his opposition days, Cameron made waves presenting himself as a man on the side of parents against firms that sold chocolates at checkouts and children's bikinis.
LOL is this guy REAL?

Quote
If he can mould a similar image in Downing St, as a PM doing battle with big business on behalf of fellow parents, he will be more than happy.
He'll never be happy until his own subjective moral code is  the moral code everybody is forced to live by through legislation.

Quote
Mr Cameron also called for some "horrific" internet search terms to be "blacklisted", meaning they would automatically bring up no results on websites such as Google or Bing.
Thus the above mentions of this giving undue ease to parents. Kids KNOW how to workaround this. It's easy. It's simple. There is nothing hard about it. They are accessing TPB despite the government/ISP restrictions.

Quote
He told the BBC he expected a "row" with service providers who, he said in his speech, were "not doing enough to take responsibility" despite having a "moral duty" to do so.

I have no words for the idiocy of this statement.

Service providers provide a service. It is not their responsibility to ensure that the users of that service are subscribing to the moral framework of some arbitrary PM. if parents want to provide and teach their children a moral framework, they should be,  you know, parenting. Not sitting around hoping their government will raise their kids for them- that's delegation. It's fundamentally the same as giving their kids a 2000 year old book and making them read it and try to make some form of moral compass from that, even though the rules laid out therein are prohibitions backed by personal threats and psychological sanctions.

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He also warned he could have to "force action" by changing the law and that, if there were "technical obstacles", firms should use their "greatest brains" to overcome them.
No matter how much effort anybody puts into these blocks, pretty much any 12 year old will be able to workaround them using proxies. Congratulations Cameron you have won the "Self-righteous Prat of the year" award for doing absolutely nothing useful.

When it comes to stuff like this, I like to cite the ONE 'commandment' that lies at the core of social altruism.

Don't be a *censored*.

Dave Cameron is defying this altruistic commandment by essentially forcing his own arbitrary moral framework from a position of self-righteousness and moral indignation on everybody, because in his view these things that he is legislating against are "wrong".

Well, here's the problem with that. Here's my massive issue with that.

That same moral indignation and self-righteousness in application of their own subjective moral ruleset through laws goes back through the years through all sorts of other social issues that we now accept as normal and cannot see any moral problem with. Mixed Race marriages were fought in most countries during the 40's through 60's  By people preaching from their self-built moral pedestals about how it's "Immoral".

Before that, Abolition of Slavery in various developed nations were fought in many countries during around 1900. The people in favour of slavery stood atop their self-built moral pedestals and told us that it was "immoral" to allow these people to be free, how they "needed our protection and guidance" and thus they should remain slaves.

See a problem here? Neither of these are something we see today. Today any morally upstanding person should see slavery and matrimonial racism as morally repugnant.

It's fundamentally the same here. Some traditionalist kook who has more power than brains has unilaterally decided that he knows what is right and in the interest of protecting his subjects he is going to force them to act a certain way through legislation.

I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 09:31:41 AM »

100% agree with BC, who is not only a computer genius, but it seems, an intelligent free thinker........IMO
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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2013, 09:56:43 PM »
As a teenager, I definitely agree with BC on the grounds that these blocks really won't do anything to stop us. This is nothing more than a publicity stunt, a poster covering a hole in the wall.
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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2013, 11:18:55 AM »
Thats a good decision and will be beneficial to families having kids

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2013, 12:10:12 PM »
Someone didn't read the whole Thread...
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2013, 01:35:13 PM »
This issue can be resolved, if people really want it.
Here are some rules of decency that are self-evident.
A.  It is wrong to lie to get an unfair advantage over another person.
B.  It is wrong to steal from another person just because they are weak.
C.  It is wrong to corrupt other people to be criminals.
D.  It is wrong to bastardize anarchy (e.i., lawlessness.)
E.  It is wrong to destroy a working society because you don't like it.

Some who promote 'free speech' will claim they have the right to ignore the above rules. Do they don't. Nobody has the right to harm others, whether by wicked deeds, false representations or things like that.




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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2013, 02:42:13 PM »
Here are some rules of decency that are self-evident.
But they have exceptions. You are trying to essentially declare that morality can be reduced to black and white. I've never personally been convinced of this. Is it always wrong to lie? No. I can consider all sorts of scenarios where lying is not wrong. Imagine a bank Robbery. The Silent alarm is triggered. One of the robbers suspects that the alarm had been triggered, so grabs a nearby toddler, puts a gun to their head, and asks one of the tellers if they triggered to silent alarm. If they say "No"- and thus lie- is it wrong? If they say "Yes" and the Robber kills the Toddler, should the Teller still feel good because they stuck to their principles and refused to lie even though it would have saved a life? These might seem like extrapolated or derived situations but this type of thing happens all the time, just not to the same degree. A Mugger on the street asks for your wallet. You give it to him. You are a quarter mile from the nearest ATM machine. They ask for your PIN number at gunpoint. Is it wrong to not tell them the correct Number? If so, why? Why is it more morally upstanding to tell them the correct PIN Number in order for them to pilfer what belongs to you than it is to tell them the wrong number and not be able to do so?

I've had things stolen from me by people I know. So I took them back. When I told the story- (and these things were undoubtedly mine) the counter is that "two wrongs don't make a right". That makes no sense. If Person A steals a bicycle from Person B, and Person B finds  their Bicycle in Possession of Person A (and that bicycle is quite clearly Person B's bicycle without a doubt). Is it "stealing" to take it back? Why? Why is that morally wrong? And if so, isn't this a case of two wrongs making a right? If that is possible, surely the platitude is a generalization that cannot be relied upon, because like many platitudes with regards to morality, it relies heavily on this idea of moral objectivity and black and white.

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It is wrong to corrupt other people to be criminals.
Here is the problem though. What is a criminal?

Again, we are left with the same issue of black and whiteness. If somebody performs a crime, they are, by definition, a criminal. Therefore, any person 'corrupted' into performing a crime, by this logic, is wrong.

But doesn't that depend on the "crime"?

Imagine there is an accident in an intersection. This intersection doesn't allow for left turns, and has clear signage indicating that, according to traffic law, such an action is illegal. Since it's against the law, it is criminal to do so. The police officers on the scene need to direct traffic to allow for the Emergency crews to do their Job. If the police direct traffic to perform a left turn, are they wrong? Is this an "evil" action? Few people would say yes. Again, it's not a case of black and white but evaluating shades of gray.

Consider speeding laws. It is against the law to go faster than the speed limit. Therefore exceeding that Speed Limit is criminal. (in some States in the U.S it is even a felony to exceed the speed limit).

A Woman is pregnant and goes into labour. So the Father drives her to the hospital. He speeds to get there. Who is responsible? is this wrong? is it the woman forcing him to go faster than the speed limit and  turn him into a criminal? Is it the newborn? Should the newborn be considered morally wrong for trying to be born? This isn't really contrived, it happens everyday and people are just fine with it, even though it fits the exact criteria you mentioned.

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D.  It is wrong to bastardize anarchy (e.i., lawlessness.)
uh.. It is wrong to corrupt anarchy? What does that mean, exactly?


Quote
It is wrong to destroy a working society because you don't like it.
Doesn't this depend on one's definition of a working society? Doesn't the society in 1984 "work"? Doesn't Winston work against it because he doesn't like it?

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Some who promote 'free speech' will claim they have the right to ignore the above rules. Do they don't. Nobody has the right to harm others, whether by wicked deeds, false representations or things like that.
I'm not even certain your stance on this issue, actually. It's difficult to tell based on what you've said.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2013, 06:39:45 PM »
A lie well placed in a situation of duress is a falsehood...not a true lie...so i agree on that premise.

Stealing something back that was or happened to be originally stolen is still stealing...other approaches could have been taken...so i disagree BC on this one.


Quote
It is wrong to corrupt other people to be criminals.

This one makes absolutely zero sense as you cannot corrupt others to be criminals...free will and choice decides who becomes a criminal or not....i could no way shape or form "corrupt" you onto commiting a crime the same way as you could not convince me to jump off a bridge...ridiculous statement.

As far as the last 3 innacurate statements i'll both defer to and agree with BC's responses as they are spot on...
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2013, 06:51:09 PM »
Quote
Doesn't this depend on one's definition of a working society? Doesn't the society in 1984 "work"? Doesn't Winston work against it because he doesn't like it?

   On a side note "Atlas Shrugged" also comes to mind...along with many other Novels.
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2013, 07:48:55 PM »
Quote
I have 2 girls, 10 and 14 years old. Being a parent isn't a burden.

I agree that being a parent isn't a burden too, I have a 9 yr old daughter. As far as content control, she has her own computer and I have a filter that keeps her in safe territory when she surfs and uses google. The only website that we have had some issues with is youtube in which she would look up sponge bob and find some disturbing edits that people have posted.

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, UK PM announces
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2013, 08:22:59 PM »
A lie well placed in a situation of duress is a falsehood...not a true lie...so i agree on that premise.
A lie is by definition any statement that is intentionally false. A falsehood is a false statement, regardless of the intent when it is delivered. A lie includes intent to deceive; a falsehood does not. The fact is that in my analogy there is an intent to deceive, but that intention is for good reasons. It's still a lie, my point is that saying that "lying is always wrong" is simply too black and white. And trying to assign semantic differences just to avoid tagging something a lie to keep that black and white definition doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.

Stealing something back that was or happened to be originally stolen is still stealing...other approaches could have been taken...so i disagree BC on this one.

I don't really think this makes any sense. Theft is essentially taking something that doesn't belong to you. Following that, let's do another experiment like the above:

1. Thomas has a Truck. His truck is red, and it has his company logo on it's mudflaps. He has fuzzy dice hanging from his rear-view mirror. He keeps a slip of his business cards in the middle of the dash.

2. Thomas is leaving for work. But darn, he forgot his tools! So he drives back, and leaving his truck idling in the driveway, runs inside to grab them. When he comes back outside, his truck is gone.

Curses.

A few days later, Thomas is walking along and sees a Red Truck in a parking lot. He get's closer. It has the same fuzzy dice. It has his company logo on the mudflaps, and his Business cards are sitting in the dash. the truck belongs to him. Therefore, him running home and grabbing is spare keys and driving the truck home is not stealing the truck. It's his truck. It would probably be a better idea to phone the police, not because the police have a magic wizard staff that let's you take your own posessions from a thief without it being theft, but because you probably want to make sure the person that stole it has to answer for doing so.

Arguably, you can just wait until they come outside. Probably best not to just punch them in the face though since the thief may have sold it to somebody who has no idea, or lent it to a friend or something.

of course, that's for cars. In my case, it was a bicycle. There was the same number of distinctions. After it was stolen, I saw another bike that was exactly the same. There was no doubt about it; every single detail was the same- in particular the slip of paper I had put within seat with my name on it.  I had owned the bike for a few years prior and had become rather familiar with it. Even then I didn't trust it which is why I stuck the piece of paper inside- just to be sure if anything happened to it. It got stolen, one of my friends stumbled upon a bike that he said looked like mine, I went where he was, Everything looked exactly the same. Many specific details were the same as mine, including a slightly bent rear rim and a tear in one of the suspension covers. Even so, I took the seat off (which itself used another addition of mine involving a quick-release seat that was the same one I had on mine) and found the piece of paper with my full name on it. At this point, how can it even be considered "stealing' to take it?

That bicycle was mine. Personally everything else clinched it, the reason I put the paper in the seat was because while the others could by some bizarre coincidence be on another bike, only mine is going to have a piece of paper with my name on it.

I just don't see how anybody can- even subjectively- consider this "wrong".

I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.