Author Topic: 2 copies of Windows 7 on one PC (Read 10448 times)

richardf77 · « **on:** July 26, 2015, 04:39:59 AM »

With windows 10 on the way and the offer of a free upgrade i am keen to try the new operating system on my PC. However i do not want to give up on windows 7 straight away, just in case i have problems with 10. I understand you can install a second operating system on your PC if the HDD is partitioned. I also understand that once my existing copy of 7 is upgraded to 10 it will not be possible to install 7 as a second operating system since it is an older OS.

My HDD is already partitioned into 2 drives/volumes. I plan to create a third from the free space and install a fresh copy of win7 onto it, then when 10 is available upgrade one of the 7s (not sure which would be best) to 10 with the free upgrade offer. I then hope to have a dual boot machine to try out 10 while still haveing 7 available as a fall back.

Does this sound a fesable plan of action? What would be the best way of going about it? Will the 2 versions work Ok together on one machine and how will it affect my data?

Any advice welcome.

soybean · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2015, 10:30:46 AM »

Well, first of all, do you have two legitimate Windows 7 software licenses? I have the impression you want to use your single Windows 7 license for two installations of Windows 7. Perhaps you could get away with that on a temporary basis, but I'd rather avoid the situation. You could have been trying out Windows 10 for a few months already by downloading the Preview version and installing it on a separate partition, but that's a moot point now.

If you keep your data off the partition used for Windows 10, you should be safe. But, external backup is still highly recommended.

Stay tuned for input from others on your scenario. I don't want to be the only one providing input on this topic.

Geek-9pm · « **Reply #2 on:** July 26, 2015, 11:15:30 AM »

I have not had any problem installing multiple copies of windows on one hard drive. The terms of the EULA are on license for each computer.
There is a resewn for doing this. If you are a developer, you want to try your software on different configurations of Windows. On license, one computer. No piratical limit on multiple installations.

camerongray · « **Reply #3 on:** July 26, 2015, 12:06:09 PM »

Quote from: Geek-9pm on July 26, 2015, 11:15:30 AM

I have not had any problem installing multiple copies of windows on one hard drive. The terms of the EULA are on license for each computer.
There is a resewn for doing this. If you are a developer, you want to try your software on different configurations of Windows. On license, one computer. No piratical limit on multiple installations.

Where does it say that? All I can find is the opposite: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/can-i-install-a-single-windows-7-license-on/e71fd159-6cd2-4ad8-9d4e-76cc468e7e88

It seems to be quite a grey area so please do not make stuff like that up without citing parts of the actual licence that states it.

Geek-9pm · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2015, 07:51:29 PM »

It is grey in the eyes of the beholder. The EULA does not prohibit multiple installs on the same PC.

Quote

After you install Windows, a unique Product ID number is created. If you were to install it again on the same computer, another unique Product ID number is created. Therefore, one can only install and activate one (1) Windows license on one (1) computer.
Carey Frisch

The above post by Carey Frisch is misleading. One one partition can be active at an instance, therefore it is still one license on cone computer. How MS enforce its EULA, or how you think it does, is not part of the EULA. The EULA says one license for one computer. The number of times it is installed is not a issue of the EULA if the install is always on the same computer.
If MS stops you from doing several installs on the same computer, then MS is in violation of the EULA they wrote.
Here is a list of EULA from MS.
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/DisplayHelpEULAPage
Using Google, you can get it in PDF, if needed.

PDF attached.

[attachment deleted by admin to conserve space]

Geek-9pm · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2015, 08:16:08 PM »

This is another thing that can go off on another tangent. This is a separate post. But it has to do with the wording of the EULA.

Quote

b. License Model. Subject to Section 2 (b) below, the software is licensed on a per copy per computer basis. A computer is a physical hardware system with an internal storage device capable of running the software. A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a separate computer.

This is NOT a reference to a logical partition on a hard drive.
You can Google "Hardware Partition" ans see that it is about individualization.

richardf77 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2015, 03:42:07 AM »

Thanks for replies. Hadnt expected a debate on the legality of what i wanted to do. Always assumed the license applied to the machine not individual installations.

Just read something about 'virtual machines' as a way of testing out 10 without installin it fully. Would this be a better option than making my machine fully dual boot?

If i did decide to go dual boot which copy of windows 7 would be best to upgrade? My existing one or the 'new' one?

BC_Programmer · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2015, 10:39:26 AM »

The license applies per copy. This is explicitly spelled out in The Wiindows 7 EULA. Section 2a:

Quote

One Copy per Computer.
You may install one copy of the software on one computer. That
computer is the “licensed computer.”

The license applies for One Copy on one computer, which would not include multiple copies on that computer, either with separate partitions or with Virtual Machines.

Quote

If i did decide to go dual boot which copy of windows 7 would be best to upgrade? My existing one or the 'new' one?

If I understand correctly, you want to Dual boot two copies of Windows 7, but only have one license. As we've shown, this would violate the EULA. With regards to upgrading one of those copies to Windows 10, that would violate the EULA as well;if you upgrade a Windows License, you cannot use the "original" license you upgraded without uninstalling the version you upgraded to. So in EULA terms a dual boot between Windows 7 and a Windows 10 install upgraded from Windows 7 requires two Windows 7 licenses.

You could image your current install, upgrade to Windows 10 and try it, and if you change your mind revert to the image you created to go back to Windows 7.

Geek-9pm · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2015, 03:56:36 PM »

Quote

EULA terms a dual boot between Windows 7 and a Windows 10 install upgraded from Windows 7 requires two Windows 7 licenses.

Lack or proof.

BC_Programmer · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2015, 05:20:29 PM »

Quote from: Geek-9pm on July 27, 2015, 03:56:36 PM

Lack or proof.

The EULA included in Windows 10 Build 10240.

Computer_Commando · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2015, 09:17:02 PM »

I think it would not violate EULA if 2 copies on 1 machine were:
1. Win10-Pro Insider Edition
2. Win7-Home Premium upgraded to Win10-Home

Trying to get them to dual boot took days to accomplish. None of the tools worked the way they were supposed to.
Machine is UEFI & drive is GPT.

Geek-9pm · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2015, 10:35:57 PM »

Quote from: BC_Programmer on July 27, 2015, 05:20:29 PM

The EULA included in Windows 10 Build 10240.

Is that the EULA that says you can not turn off the PC without permission?

Quote

The Software periodically checks for system and app updates, and downloads and installs them for you.
You may obtain updates only from Microsoft or authorised sources, and Microsoft may need to update your system to provide you with those updates.
By accepting this agreement, you agree to receive these types of automatic updates without any additional notice.

BC_Programmer · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2015, 11:43:32 PM »

Yeah. the stuff about the Upgrade license is more in line with their previous upgrade versions, so that is less of a surprise.

For the updates, basically it reduces the update options to "Automatic" and "Prompt to schedule restart".

That change is idiotic and is one of the reasons I have no intention of upgrading either of my main systems from Windows 8.1.

richardf77 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 28, 2015, 04:23:43 AM »

So if you can only have one copy of windows on one machine without obtaining another license how do people get away with dual boot machines? What started me off on this was googling dual booting and there is loads of info out there on how to do it, particularly if you want to run 2 versions of windows - say for compatibility reasons. This is what i want to do to have the option of going back to 7 if 10 doesnt work out.

Looks like i am going to just have to go for it with 10 and if i have to go back to 7 i will just have to reinstall it and remove 10.

What do you mean by 'imaging' a copy of windows? is this the same as running a virtual machine? Can i use removable media to do this? I have in the past tried out Linux based OSs by running them off a DVD. Can i do this with W10 to try it out?

Computer_Commando · « **Reply #14 on:** July 28, 2015, 01:01:06 PM »

Quote from: BC_Programmer on July 27, 2015, 11:43:32 PM

...For the updates, basically it reduces the update options to "Automatic" and "Prompt to schedule restart".

That change is idiotic and is one of the reasons I have no intention of upgrading either of my main systems from Windows 8.1...

I may just have to keep my tablet on 8.1. Will also keep images of Win7 machines.

Quote from: richardf77 on July 28, 2015, 04:23:43 AM

1. So if you can only have one copy of windows on one machine without obtaining another license how do people get away with dual boot machines?

What started me off on this was googling dual booting and there is loads of info out there on how to do it, particularly if you want to run 2 versions of windows - say for compatibility reasons. This is what i want to do to have the option of going back to 7 if 10 doesnt work out.

2. Looks like i am going to just have to go for it with 10 and if i have to go back to 7 i will just have to reinstall it and remove 10.

3. What do you mean by 'imaging' a copy of windows? is this the same as running a virtual machine? Can i use removable media to do this? I have in the past tried out Linux based OSs by running them off a DVD. Can i do this with W10 to try it out?

1. 2 separate licenses.
2. You can roll back the update within the first month. No need to reinstall, see #3 below.
3. Imaging is backup of the entire hard drive or 1 or more partitions on a hard drive. No, not a virtual machine. Use USB Hard drive, images are compressed to about half their original size, image size is about 20GB. I use a 1TB USB 3.0 portable HDD & Macrium Reflect Free Edition, but there are others, Acronis True Image, etc. Create the image backup before you do the Win10 update.

Geek-9pm · « **Reply #15 on:** July 28, 2015, 05:24:45 PM »

Maybe in a week or so there will be some way to clarify this question.
As has been mentioned, even on the Microsoft forums they talk about multi boot. Never is there found a warning that you violate the license.
The EULA does prohibit visualization, which lets two on more users run one computer with one license. Multi users ate the same time are not allowed.

But multi boot is wrong, we shooed see proof when the RTM comes out.

Computer_Commando · « **Reply #16 on:** July 28, 2015, 05:46:36 PM »

Quote from: Geek-9pm on July 28, 2015, 05:24:45 PM

...we shooed see proof when the RTM comes out...

Actually, the RTM is out, 10240 released on 7/16.

I downloaded it to one computer, then used the ESD file to create the ISO file & then a bootable flash drive to install it on the others.

Geek-9pm · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2015, 08:11:45 PM »

Computer_Commando, Thanks. That is news.

Windows 10 upgrade and installation FAQ.

Quote

We figured out who pays and who doesn't

-from Windows Super Site today.

richardf77 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2015, 10:13:30 AM »

Not that I am suggesting anyone do this , but what would actually happen in a pc if you tried to install two copies of windows under one license, ie technically illegally?

I was wondering how anyone would know if you has broken the licence terms an if so what would happen on the computer.

Don't worry I am not going to try it, I am just curious!

Geek-9pm · « **Reply #19 on:** July 29, 2015, 10:52:16 AM »

Well, I have tried it a number of times. Microsoft will allow 30 for you to validate your license, which gives you lots of time to experiment.
In what region do you live? Reportedly MS has crashed some users on other parts of the world where legal recourse is weak.

richardf77 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 29, 2015, 01:15:51 PM »

Quote from: Geek-9pm on July 29, 2015, 10:52:16 AM

Well, I have tried it a number of times. Microsoft will allow 30 for you to validate your license, which gives you lots of time to experiment.
In what region do you live? Reportedly MS has crashed some users on other parts of the world where legal recourse is weak.

UK. Not going to try it. Don't want to rock the boat. Have dismissed dual boot idea. Will try 10 on my Backup laptop and try it out before putting it on my main machine.

One more thing. I mentioned running live cd downloads of Linux OS s from dvd-r to try them out. Can I do this with either of the windows OS s so that I can still use it without installing a second d os on the hdd?

Computer_Commando · « **Reply #21 on:** July 29, 2015, 01:37:02 PM »

Quote from: richardf77 on July 29, 2015, 01:15:51 PM

...
I mentioned running live cd downloads of Linux OS s from dvd-r to try them out. Can I do this with either of the windows OS s so that I can still use it without installing a second d os on the hdd?

Live CD boots from the CD & installs nothing unless you tell it to.

Geek-9pm · « **Reply #22 on:** July 29, 2015, 04:27:26 PM »

Don't' give up.

The image is from the HowToGeek site.

Quote

You probably shouldn’t install Windows 10 on your primary PC. But, if you are going to, you should at least install it in a dual-boot configuration. You can then reboot to switch between your installed versions of Windows.
Be sure you have backups of your important files before doing this. You shouldn’t lose your files if you follow this process, but a mistake or bug could cause you to lose them. Better safe than sorry!

http://www.howtogeek.com/197647/how-to-dual-boot-windows-10-with-windows-7-or-8/
I am going t o try and duplicate this.

richardf77 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 30, 2015, 02:50:48 AM »

I think i have seen this before. Might be what gave me the idea for dual boot in the first place. Thanks for sharing it though.

Still dont see how it gets around the license problem. You will still have two copies of windows on one machine and only one license. Or am i misunderstanding? Does this version of 10 not need a license?

BC_Programmer · « **Reply #24 on:** July 30, 2015, 06:27:02 AM »

Quote from: richardf77 on July 30, 2015, 02:50:48 AM

Still dont see how it gets around the license problem. You will still have two copies of windows on one machine and only one license. Or am i misunderstanding? Does this version of 10 not need a license?

One can find a ton of articles that don't consider that what they advise may violate EULAs.

Realistically, I'd personally not care if somebody was using a pirated copy even. It's more a case of liability for the site (and arguably, myself) since offering advice/information that would help people violate the EULA can be problematic. Arguably a lot of stuff can be used maliciously or for those sorts of purposes so it's something of a gray area, but that's a whole different bag of gophers.

Geek-9pm · « **Reply #25 on:** July 30, 2015, 10:17:47 PM »

Yesterday I put two installs of Windows 7 home. Actually, not two copies. In installed one copy, And then installed another copy. I have two licenses and two different versions of Windows 7 home.

Windows did a multi boot install fro the second one. The boot menu
says:
windows 7
windows 7
Later I validated the second install. After that, I did Windows 10 as an upgrade to Windows 7. The installer found the right one and installed Windows 10. I now have both Windows 7 and the new Windows 10 on the boot menu.

But I have not yet tried to instill Windows 7 from just one CD and one COA and try multi boot. If multi-boot does harm to Microsoft, why have they not said something more explicit? And how would it harm them?

BC_Programmer · « **Reply #26 on:** July 31, 2015, 06:09:46 AM »

Quote from: Geek-9pm on July 30, 2015, 10:17:47 PM

Yesterday I put two installs of Windows 7 home. Actually, not two copies. In installed one copy, And then installed another copy. I have two licenses and two different versions of Windows 7 home.

Windows did a multi boot install fro the second one. The boot menu
says:
windows 7
windows 7
Later I validated the second install. After that, I did Windows 10 as an upgrade to Windows 7. The installer found the right one and installed Windows 10. I now have both Windows 7 and the new Windows 10 on the boot menu.

But I have not yet tried to instill Windows 7 from just one CD and one COA and try multi boot. If multi-boot does harm to Microsoft, why have they not said something more explicit? And how would it harm them?

Multiple booting scenarios are fine but if you have one copy/license of Windows 7, and want to try Windows 10, you won't be able (under the EULA) to have a dual boot between Windows 10 and Windows 7, for the same reason you cannot upgrade Windows 7 to Windows 10 and then install that copy of Windows 7 somewhere else. If you have multiple licenses for Win7 it's fine.

And again this about what you are able to do while being above-board with regards to the EULA. Whether it is possible despite that is another question.

Geek-9pm · « **Reply #27 on:** July 31, 2015, 10:02:27 AM »

We can agree. A user with one COA {license} for Windows 7 gets a free upgrade to Windows 10 and nothing more. The original Windows 7 DVD can not be used again. {Exception is maybe a huge system crash.}

Some sites are saying you can have both you Windows 7 and a version of Windows 10. But I believe this means a limited version for a limited time for evaluation by an enterprise. That is not the same as the full Windows 10.

I plan to see if I can get an evaluation version for some testing. I will use ether another desktop or a fresh formatted hard drive.

BTW: The updates for an early version of Windows 7 are about 180 things and it takes hours.

Computer Hope Forum

News:

Author Topic: 2 copies of Windows 7 on one PC (Read 10448 times)

richardf77

soybean

Geek-9pm

camerongray

Geek-9pm

Geek-9pm

richardf77

BC_Programmer

Geek-9pm

BC_Programmer

Computer_Commando

Geek-9pm

BC_Programmer

richardf77

Computer_Commando

Geek-9pm

Computer_Commando

Geek-9pm

richardf77

Geek-9pm

richardf77

Computer_Commando

Geek-9pm

richardf77

BC_Programmer

Geek-9pm

BC_Programmer

Geek-9pm