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Author Topic: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?  (Read 5215 times)

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Accessless

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Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« on: October 04, 2015, 06:35:07 AM »
To my knowledge know has posted a topic like this, apologies in advance if there are loads.

I'm curious as to what the uptake on Windows 10 is by the Computer Hope community. What version of Windows are you running? & Will/have you upgraded?

No need for a rant but no one is stopping you  :P


Personally I'm Windows 7 & not upgrading (DirectX 12 is the only selling point for me)

Salmon Trout

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2015, 06:38:21 AM »
Was running Insider Builds on my laptop since April 2015. Still am. Bought brand new machine in June 2015 with Windows 8 downgrade to Windows 7 preinstalled. On July 29 was very happy to upgrade to Windows 10. I am not wanting to go back to Windows 7.

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2015, 06:42:26 AM »
While I don't use Windows as my main OS, I've updated all but one of my Windows machines/VMs to Windows 10.  The only reason one hasn't been done yet is because I haven't got around to doing it, it will be upgraded at some point.

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2015, 09:08:50 AM »
ran Insider on one system, installed it fresh on a budget build as well. Won't be upgrading any of my main systems from 8.1 in the foreseeable future. Win10 provides enhancements that are consistent with the price tag.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

patio

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2015, 09:20:26 AM »
 ;D     :P
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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2015, 10:47:46 AM »
Hi, Veltas here.

I only tried one of the Windows 10 previews, and not extensively.

As some background: I am generally less irritated with Windows updates than most people. I didn't mind the interface issues with Windows Vista or Windows 8.

However, the Windows 8 upgrade ended up burning me, I had left some files in the Windows.old folder after the custom install, and it turned out later that Windows 8 silently deletes that whole folder 30 days after the install, without any indication that it would do so, or even mentioning that it had done it. I can see the logic behind why they'd do this, but it seemed like very irresponsible programming and my opinion of Microsoft lowered, so now I trust Microsoft significantly less, whereas before I had trusted them not to do stupid things as much.

So for the time being I'm avoiding upgrading my primary machine to Windows 10 as I'm concerned that I'll get burned again, not necessarily with file loss though (backups make this mostly a non-issue). There isn't really enough of a reason to upgrade from 8.1 for the time being. If I end up having to pay for Windows 10 then so be it, although I suspect I won't really regret my decision.
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patio

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2015, 10:50:51 AM »
I've personally never seen Win8 do that...on any PC...
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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2015, 10:58:05 AM »
You kept files, with no backup, in a folder that was effectively marked for deletion with a ".old" extension, a convention going back to the early 80's... and it is the software performing the deletion that is irresponsible?

I suppose if the HDD failed, then the HDD manufacturer would have been the irresponsible party.



The thread(s) you linked in that other thread are hilarious. Almost all of them are shifting their own responsibilities. "I have files I need to keep for 7 years! THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE" well, maybe you should back them up...
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CPowa



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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2015, 11:04:57 AM »
You kept files, with no backup, in a folder that was effectively marked for deletion with a ".old" extension, a convention going back to the early 80's... and it is the software performing the deletion that is irresponsible?

I would argue both the software and I were being irresponsible.

I suppose if the HDD failed, then the HDD manufacturer would have been the irresponsible party.

Personally it seems irresponsible that Windows would delete a folder that contains data the user might want without telling them about this. Much more appropriate would have been a dialogue saying that it was going to happen, or not doing it at all. I didn't say it was completely crossing the line and now I'm never using Windows again and Microsoft are terrible blah blah blah. Comparing what I said to me complaining to a HDD manuf. is one amazing extrapolation.

The thread(s) you linked in that other thread are hilarious. Almost all of them are shifting their own responsibilities. "I have files I need to keep for 7 years! THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE" well, maybe you should back them up...

Er yeah I agree, I linked evidence that this was a real thing, with some more elaboration to explain what had happened. The user in that thread was obviously in the wrong. Nevertheless I still think what MS did here was dumb.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2015, 11:25:14 AM by CPowa »
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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2015, 11:33:50 AM »
I would argue both the software and I were being irresponsible.
I don't recall the Windows.old folder ever being mentioned while an Upgrade is occurring, let alone making any guarantee's of it's longevity. You may as well be complaining about the transience of the temp folder- Or it's like the old classic where a businessman was storing all their important documents in their Mac's "Trash".

Quote
Personally it seems irresponsible that Windows would delete a folder that contains data the user might want without telling them about this.
Windows.old contains copies of the windows system data and user profile information. These are migrated to Windows 10 as well but the old versions are kept so the upgrade can be undone. They are not kept so the user can pick through them.

Quote
Much more appropriate would have been a dialogue saying that it was going to happen, or not doing it at all.
As mentioned I don't recall any dialog being shown referring to the folder being created. It is not intended for users to use and is only there to facilitate downgrades.

Quote
Comparing what I said to me complaining to a HDD manuf. is one amazing extrapolation.
You did not backup or have other copies of the files that were in the Windows.old folder. You were presumably either using files there, keeping files there, or otherwise wanted the files in that folder. The Windows.old folder was deleted because it was a system folder. The fact that you relied on the contents of a system folder doesn't change that it is a system folder for which immutability cannot be assumed- in the same sense as the ability to store and retrieve data on a Hard Disk cannot be assumed to always be possible.

Quote
EDIT: also I said in my original post "I'm concerned that I'll get burned again, not necessarily with file loss though (backups make this mostly a non-issue)". Please read the whole post before trying to throw me under the bus.

If you say something or refer to something as being stupid or bad, putting a disclaimer that you aren't concerned about that stupid or bad feature affecting you in the future doesn't somehow absolve you from defending the original statement.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2015, 11:46:37 AM »
I don't recall the Windows.old folder ever being mentioned while an Upgrade is occurring, let alone making any guarantee's of it's longevity. You may as well be complaining about the transience of the temp folder- Or it's like the old classic where a businessman was storing all their important documents in their Mac's "Trash".

Well let me educate you. The Windows.old folder is generated after you do a custom install onto a partition with an existing Windows installation. It moves user files into this folder. The dialog literally says "The partition you selected might contain files from a previous Windows installation. If it does, the files and folders will be moved to a folder named Windows.old. You will be able to access the information in Windows.old, but you will not be able to use your previous version of Windows."

So it is a convenience when reinstalling Windows. Not to be relied on, as you should back up your data doing something like this anyway. Windows.old remains permanently in all versions of Windows before Windows 8, although relying on it is foolhardy. It's certainly nothing like the nature of relying on the Trash folder, or the Temp folder, which both are very explicit about being for trash or temporary files....... obviously.

Windows.old contains copies of the windows system data and user profile information. These are migrated to Windows 10 as well but the old versions are kept so the upgrade can be undone. They are not kept so the user can pick through them.

It sounds like we're talking about two different things at this point.

As mentioned I don't recall any dialog being shown referring to the folder being created. It is not intended for users to use and is only there to facilitate downgrades.

We now know this isn't true from what I said at the top of this particular post.

You did not backup or have other copies of the files that were in the Windows.old folder. You were presumably either using files there, keeping files there, or otherwise wanted the files in that folder. The Windows.old folder was deleted because it was a system folder. The fact that you relied on the contents of a system folder doesn't change that it is a system folder for which immutability cannot be assumed- in the same sense as the ability to store and retrieve data on a Hard Disk cannot be assumed to always be possible.

So the first part of that statement is leading onto the absolute truth which is that Windows.old shouldn't be relied on for important information. And then we start getting almost theoretical talking about how you can't trust the HDD at all for even first use. I'm sorry but firstly I agree with your sentiment, and secondly you are making a really weak argument here: yes, technically nothing can be relied upon, but it is crappy behaviour when the system deletes things that probably contain user data without any warning: especially if a programmer decided it was worth doing this. The worst part for me is that there was a programmer in MS who thought this was a good idea, and clearly didn't consider running it by that many people, or talking to their QA people about this, or whatever would usually be done to assure quality of the product Windows. It just seems like really poor form to me.

If you say something or refer to something as being stupid or bad, putting a disclaimer that you aren't concerned about that stupid or bad feature affecting you in the future doesn't somehow absolve you from defending the original statement.

Well you seem to think I'm defending something which I'm not. Maybe I wasn't as explicit about disclaiming my defence as I could have been... but nevertheless you extrapolated that I was defending this. You guessed what I was thinking and you were wrong.
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Allan

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2015, 01:18:57 PM »
With all due respect, performing any major operation on a system (installing new hardware, a new OS, etc) without first creating an image of the system drive is simply asking for trouble. It is the user's job to protect his or her system - nobody else's (and by "protect" I mean insure against malware, insure that nobody else has physical access to the system without permission, potentially dangerous downloads are avoided, disc images are created on a regular basis, etc). Again, I'm not looking to start an argument or create any discord - but while it's nice of Microsoft to create a Windows.old folder for us when we upgrade to a new version of Windows, that isn't something we should be solely dependent upon. In the end it's nobody's responsibility but our own to insure we act responsibly and observe / maintain a regular backup strategy.

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2015, 01:27:10 PM »
Quote
Personally I'm Windows 7 & not upgrading
That seems to be a common position.

But in my case, I need Windows 10 for a specific program that was not written for Windows 7. So Whenever I want to run it, I have to re boot into Windows 10.

I have heard that there are people out there still using Windows 3.11 today.

 O0

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2015, 02:36:57 PM »
What specific app was written for Win 10 that won't run on Win7 ? ?
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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2015, 03:52:44 PM »
What specific app was written for Win 10 that won't run on Win7 ? ?

Windows 8/Modern Apps will run on Windows 10, but not on Windows 7. (Basically stuff from the Windows Store)

Windows 10 App Framework apps won't run on Windows 7 either. (effectively the same deal)

I'm not aware of any standard desktop applications that can run on Windows 10 (or windows 8, for that matter) but not on Windows 7, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were programs that weren't supported on Windows 7 simply because they were never tested on any system earlier than Windows 8. There are some changes to the desktop API but they are rather minor and I'd be surprised if any vendor decided to drop support for anything later than XP.
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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2015, 03:57:17 PM »
Can't personally name an app from the Windows store that i would miss dearly.
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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2015, 10:27:34 PM »
My PC isn't a mobile device.  8)




Moderators. Can we get some up to date emoticons please?

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2015, 05:47:36 AM »
My PC isn't a mobile device.  8)
Windows 10 feels much more like it is designed for desktops than Windows 8 ever did.  I also quite like having the same OS on both a PC and my Windows tablet where it works great on both.

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2015, 07:18:33 AM »
I have machines running W7, W8 and W10.  I don't plan to upgrade the machines running W7 & W8.  As a general rule, I abhor upgrades. W10 is a decent OS but not good enough that I would upgrade machines that are running perfectly fine with their current OS.  I recently purchased a new laptop and specifically sought out one that came with W10.

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2015, 12:12:02 PM »
I haven't upgraded yet but will be doing when I build my new PC (hopefully this weekend).  I've only used Windows 10 for about 10 minutes which is more than I've used Windows 8 - not for any specific reason, I just didn't get around to trying Windows 8 properly.

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2015, 05:26:43 PM »
How long did you run Win ME...just curios....
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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2015, 12:23:01 PM »
I didn't run it at all, never had a PC with it on.  We just sort of naturally skipped it with our family PC which was the only machine in the house back then, purely because we didn't upgrade very often.

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2015, 10:11:29 PM »
How long did you run Win ME...just curios....

Years. Nothing wrong with it... So long as you had the pre internet explorer 6 version (Or pre-IE5, I forget now).

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Re: Windows 10 Will you or have you Upgraded?
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2015, 11:07:19 PM »
Years. Nothing wrong with it... So long as you had the pre internet explorer 6 version (Or pre-IE5, I forget now).
All Versions of Windows ME came with Internet Explorer 5.5.

Windows ME wasn't really much worse than Windows 98SE, though it wasn't really any better, either, given that it eliminated the ability to drop to DOS (which was considered rather important at the time). The main problem, and the biggest reason Windows ME has gotten such a smear to it's name, is very much the same reason Vista is so maligned, which is that manufacturers that prepackaged their PCs with the OS used underpowered hardware loaded with garbage.
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