Is Microsoft getting more pushy with 10

[DaveLembke]

Here is a strange one...

Friend of mine had her laptop automatically try to upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 8 two days ago. I figured she must have accidentally accepted to take the Windows 10 upgrade. Helped her to get back to 8 and all was well.

I fired up my spare computer running Windows 7 for first time in a week and am greeted with a message that my system is going to be upgraded to Windows 10 on May 25th. I DID NOT ACCEPT the free upgrade, but somehow my system was set to give me the Windows 10 upgrade.

Fortunately I caught this message and CANCELLED the process.

Anyone else seen where Windows 10 is on its own trying to install to systems?

I have 2 other systems running Windows 7 and I have black flagged the Windows 10 nagware KB 3035583 on them so they didnt get what appears to be an auto upgrade.

I guess I will have to black flag Windows 10 KB 3035583 to never install on this other system too.



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[BC_Programmer]

Is Microsoft getting more pushy with 10

Yep.

[Geek-9pm]

Push? Or Shove?

A few months back we we given the warning.
Updategate: Microsoft is about to make it even harder to opt out of Windows 10
Also:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/03/16/windows-10-stop-upgrade/

My own upgrade was fairly straightforward, but I did end up with a no-longer-functional webcam, a soundcard which required uncommonly convoluted manual driver installation, a couple of glitchy games and all my default programs reset to Microsoft’s own applications. Nothing major went wrong, but I still had to spend half a day fiddling, and that’s as someone who broadly knows what they’re doing. For someone less PC-savvy who just clicked the Upgrade button and trusted all will be well, that stuff’s a frightening mountain.

This could hurt Microsoft. If not already. 

[BC_Programmer]

I'm of the mind that Win10 is at best a lateral shift from 8.1. Though I suppose that's somewhat off-topic.

At this rate it would not surprise me if an automatic update would forcibly update to Windows 10 with no way to cancel it at all.

Their approach with KB3035583, the "Get Windows 10" program update, is incredibly sneaky and I would almost suggest malicious, even. Hiding an update will hide all future versions of that update, unless the new one is marked appropriately, in which case, it will appear again. Microsoft has released every new version of the GWX update with that mark; so any user who had hidden the update, will see it again and it will be automatically selected as well. This seems rather user-hostile; if a user, such as myself, has hidden the Get Windows 10 program, then it is not reasonable that any change to that program would change that, as it is the specific purpose of the program- upgrading to Windows 10- that I do not want to have performed on my systems.

The presence of advertisements within Windows 10 seems to partly explain why they want to get people onto Windows 10 so badly, considering that in terms of features it is rather lacking. (and usable features, moreso, do NOT get me started on VPN connections...) But besides displaying advertisements, there is also all that sweet, sweet information they will be gathering about how users use their PCs, what programs they run, for how long, etc. I'm sure there are a lot of interested third parties that would pay for that information. This may be why the Windows 10 EULA explicitly gives Microsoft sole proprietorship over the gathered information- "By accepting this agreement and using the software you agree that Microsoft may collect, use, and disclose the information"


EDIT: This is not conspiracy theory stuff here really, as there are certainly loads of perfectly legitimate uses for the gathered information to make various products better, the main concern here (IMO) is that individual users should be able to, at least, opt out of that collection if they desire.

[Geek-9pm]

Yesterday PC World  did an article on this topic.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3073457/windows/how-microsofts-nasty-new-windows-10-pop-up-tricks-you-into-upgrading.html

This morning, the unthinkable happened: My wife, an avowed PC user who long ago swore to never touch an Apple device, started shopping around for a Mac Mini. And it’s all thanks to Windows 10. Or rather, the nasty new way that Microsoft’s tricking Windows 7 and 8 users into automatically updating to Windows 10. 

[DaveLembke]

Thanks for all the info.. I was curious as to why the big push to 10 so forcibly. It appears that their master plan is coming to light. I have always been under the caution that nothing is free. *Yes some things are, but generally there is a hidden catch to free. Companies dont thrive by giving away product, and so I am more cautious when a company that has up til Windows 10 charged for everything and anything they possibly could giving away the most recent OS for free.

I took the upgrade on one of my systems, and that system has been offline for about 6 months. There is no draw to Windows 10 for me. And as BC stated its lacking some features as I also noticed. To me there is nothing special that Windows 10 has that makes me have to have it. Windows 7 does everything I need and all software I have works with it. Plenty of Driver Support for 7 as well. I had a old single-core Celeron M 1.6Ghz laptop that came with Windows 7 on it from prior owner who upgraded it from XP and I figured I might as well upgrade that to Windows 10. Maybe 10 is more efficient and will run better on a celeron M 1.6Ghz laptop. Started the process to upgrade that one and it complained that there was no driver available for Windows 10 for the Chipset, so the Integrated Intel Graphics had no Windows 10 driver support and a result of that, this laptop was blatting for it to be upgraded to 10, but the upgrade refused due to lacking drivers available for that older Intel Chipsets integrated Graphics.

I am hoping that after July 2016 the free upgrade annoyances will be killed off by microsoft since, it would be pointless after that point to suggest Windows 10... or would it?  It would be quite annoying if it remains and changes to something similar to what they did with Windows XP where it says this OS is out of date... although at least XP had a checkbox to say never remind again.

[BC_Programmer]

[DaveLembke]

laughing so hard...  Windows 3.1 win 10 blat haha 

I wonder if someone really wrote an old program with support for Windows 3.1 to make this joke or if its just photoshop edit.

[BC_Programmer]

I wonder if someone really wrote an old program with support for Windows 3.1 to make this joke or if its just photoshop edit.

I saw some similar images and decided to make this one myself, actually. The ones I've seen are pretty simple and are a basic window with a bit of text. I wanted to make something that looked a bit more similar to the dialog that GWX actually shows. Could have gone as far as the flat-style button but decided I had spent too much time converting files by that point.

I used VB3. Of course the program doesn't actually do anything at all, so there was no actual programming involved (or that I had to re-learn). Just had to convert the images to an appropriate format and do a bit of form design.

I guess I could have gotten away with just the one image (the background). Though showing the icon when it's minimized is a nice touch.

I'm thinking of expanding it to make a simple "retro programming" project based on it where it displays random images and messages from a directory, which would be an interesting topic to write about.

[DaveLembke]

Cool! 

Btw... turned my laptop on and I guess Microsoft is trying to push 10 to this computer too. Cancelled it out. I guess I will have to turn on all Windows 7 systems I own and see which ones have the windows 7 dooms day count down to an attempted forced 10 upgrade. 



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[patio]

I run 7 on 2 different PC's...i get no warnings whatsoever...

[BC_Programmer]

I run 7 on 2 different PC's...i get no warnings whatsoever...

Do you have the Win10 GWX updates installed? Not having them installed seems to neatly avoid these issues, it's just a matter of keeping them off which is relatively straightforward (though IMO shouldn't be necessary...)

I've been reading about some of my own gripes with Win10 (mostly the Windows Update options, or lack thereof, which even on my secondary systems has successfully wasted my time on a few occasions). And from what I've read, supporters of the change suggest it is for the best- The reasoning seems to rest on this idea that users are all stupid morons and shouldn't be trusted to adjust configuration options. Most of them quote statistics. I liked reading one quote that "80% of all infections are caused by the OS being out of date" which I think they just made up on the spot. Mind you, I have no data to support my own thinking that end-user malware infections tend to come about through Trojan Horse software, rather than through particular OS exploits.

If users are allegedly too stupid to be trusted with adjusting their Windows Update options, why are they allowed to adjust any administrator settings like UAC? Why are they even allowed to give admin permission? Clearly the solution is to not give users administrator permission or the ability to configure UAC settings. Instead, in order to protect users, they should be presented with a UAC dialog which provides a phone number for Microsoft and a password prompt, and the user must phone Microsoft and plead their case to demonstrate that they deserve to be given local administrator access on their PC.

Btw... turned my laptop on and I guess Microsoft is trying to push 10 to this computer too.

I don't have win7 on any of my real systems but I use a program called GWX Control Panel which works for both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1. I run it after I run Windows Update (which I can still do since I'm on Win 8.1 *AHEM*) and clean out the various settings Microsoft sneakily changes. (OS Upgrades through Windows Update in particular). There are a few other programs that do basically the same thing, and some will remove the various KB updates Microsoft has pushed through Windows Update that add Telemetry tracking and diagnostics services to WIndows 7 and 8.

[patio]

I'll check both rigs for the offending updates...as i've done since XP i have Win Updates turned to notification only...auto update is dis-abled.

[patio]

Talk about nefarious...

[DaveLembke]

The latest, and possibly evillest move (to date) involves making closing an unwanted upgrade popup -- by clicking the x in the top right corner -- the same as agreeing to the upgrade.

WOW!!!!   This is exactly what I have been doing when I seen pop ups for Win 10 upgrade.. I have been clicking the [X] to get rid of them. Sneaky Sneaky Sneaky Microsoft!!!

Well now I have more insight as to WHY this installation of 10 almost happened. I never thought I would have to ever turn off auto updates to notification only, but Microsoft has really gone too far with this issue. Gonna check into BC's GWX Control Panel when I get home from work too. It sounds interesting and useful.

Thanks everyone on this subject. Btw when checking out other systems one other one wanted to do the Win 10 upgrade to and killed it off on that one too. 

[SuperDave]

I booted into Win 8.1 last night and nothing comes up about upgrading to Win 10. Is MS ignoring me?

[DaveLembke]

I booted into Win 8.1 last night and nothing comes up about upgrading to Win 10. Is MS ignoring me?

Run all updates and then next time you see the Windows 10 upgrade blat on the screen click on the [X] box to get rid of it like I have been doing and you might also be blessed with their forced upgrade attempt and no longer ignored. 

[patio]

I booted into Win 8.1 last night and nothing comes up about upgrading to Win 10. Is MS ignoring me?

This would be a good thing...count yer blessings...for now.

[SuperDave]

I had a call last night from a friend who had his laptop upgraded to Win 10 by itself. They really are getting pushy.

[Computer_Commando]

They only have 60 more days to get all the remaining Win7, 8 8.1 machines updated to 10 before the free upgrade expires.

[BC_Programmer]

They only have 60 more days to get all the remaining Win7, 8 8.1 machines updated to 10 before the free upgrade expires.

Who is "They" exactly?

[SuperDave]

I left Win 8.1 on for over two hours and received 52 updates but no upgrade to 10. I feel so left out.

[BC_Programmer]

I left Win 8.1 on for over two hours and received 52 updates but no upgrade to 10. I feel so left out.

Do you have KB3035583? That seems to be teh "key to the kingdom" of sorts.

On systems that aren't compatible the notification icon appears (Get Windows 10) but it doesn't appear to show any nags. My Win7 and Win8 Virtual Machines all have the GWX program but it doesn't do anything on it's own- eg no nags, and if I click it says that I have an incompatible device (VMWare SVGA) and that I should contact the manufacturer. It also offers to show me where I can buy a new PC as well, which I think is hilarious.

[SuperDave]

I will look for that update the next time I boot in Win 8.1. On another note, I reverted my Notebook to Win 7 even though it's been over two months since I upgraded.

[Geek-9pm]

From BC

It also offers to show me where I can buy a new PC as well, which I think is hilarious.

It is hilarious...   

[DaveLembke]

It also offers to show me where I can buy a new PC as well, which I think is hilarious.

So what online store or manufacturer are they promoting ?   *Curious who the high bidder is to pay Microsoft for advertising within their OS. 

Next they will have FREE OS with commercial blocks and to use it without commercial blocks they will require a monthly subscription to be paid so that you cant get out cheap on an OS such as XP for $100 for Home or $140 for Pro as a one time fee and get 15 years use out of it, but you actually pay a subscription "Royalty on Length of Use" So instead if $100 or $140 its like $8 a month for Home and $10 a month for Pro.

How much longer will it be before subscription OS's are created for continued revenue similar to how video game companies charge for use for online games! 

World Of Microsoft - "You Are Not Prepared!" 

[patio]

On that note even though it's been done kinda quietly the Office subscription plans are making MS a boatload of cash...

So you may be correct about OS's being that way eventually...

[BC_Programmer]

So what online store or manufacturer are they promoting

The Microsoft Store.

The actual Dialog:


"Check out new PCs" takes me to:

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msca/en_CA/cat/Computers/categoryID.64512100


The subscription OS point is surprisingly salient. As tricky as they are being with Windows 10 upgrades, that's using Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1's Windows Update, which provides far more user control. Windows 10's Windows Update applets restrict the ability to set many options, and disabling it requires a group policy, rather than selecting a drop-down option.  If Microsoft wanted to push a new subscription OS it would be trivial to do it after "everyone" is on Windows 10. "Congratulations, you've been upgraded to Windows 365! As part of this free upgrade, you receive a free month subscription. Be sure to add your credit card To Windows in order to keep using your computer beyond <date>!"

Then there will be a piece of tiny link text in the corner "I don't want Windows 365". When you click it it shows another dialog.

You've selected to not upgrade to Windows 365. We're sorry to see you go. You can easily rollback to Windows 10, but before you do, consider all that you'll be missing! In Windows 365:

-We changed Cortana's icon to Blue.
-The Notepad icon now includes a picture of a toaster
-The Notification tray on the taskbar only supports 16-color icons to save memory.
-Rather than show your programs, the Start Menu now shows several pages of recommended applications.
-In order to make your life interesting Windows 365 will intentionally bugcheck during boot 1 out of 10 times.
-In order to keep you focused and productive, Windows 365 keeps you from being distracted by only allowing one program to be open at a time.

It will have a giant "I want Windows 365" button and then in the corner "decline this offer" in tiny text. When you click that it gives you a mailing address to send a letter to in the post to get your rollback key.

[SuperDave]

Windows 10 will be the last OS from MS.

[DaveLembke]

When you click that it gives you a mailing address to send a letter to in the post to get your rollback key.

My thoughts before getting to this part of your post was that Microsoft hold off playing this card until after the roll back period expires and roll it out in Sept 2016 as sorry your trapped with 10. 

Interesting that they directed it to their own store and that there is a variety of brands there.

[BC_Programmer]

Windows 10 will be the last OS from MS.

On Jan 21st (of last year) Terry Myerson stated that, going forward, they don't want to be in the position of having to convince people to buy the next version of Windows. and that the upgrade to Windows 10 would be the last time they have to do that. They did not outright say it would be the last version of Windows, (Though that tended to be the headline) which is good, since if they did they would have lied, as they have released several Windows versions since the initial Windows 10 release; they just happened to have called them "Windows 10: Threshold, Windows 10:Threshold 2, Windows 10:Redstone update and the upcoming "Windows 10:Anniversary Update".

During that very same conversation, Terry Myerson started talking about "Windows as a Service", which relates exactly into what I'm saying. If "Windows 365" sits ill because Microsoft would never go back on what they said, and reinterpreting or re-spinning previous marketing statements to fit a new strategy never happens (Windows Longhorn and WinFS) then let's call it the "Windows 10: Glowstone Update".

If they release a subscription-based Windows, whether it's called "Windows 10: subtitle" or "Windows 365" seems to be a bit of an unimportant detail. With how they are slowly adjusting the defaults and restricting user options and preventing users from adjusting options through the use of user-interface dark patterns, seems to implicate that this may be a longer-term goal. Options and user interfaces are slowly being changed in a way to "encourage" users to follow a particular path and increase conversion rates as much as possible. If they do release a subscription based OS- I mean, a "subscription-based update to Windows 10" I don't see any reason to expect them to approach it with any less zeal than they have done so far with the Windows 10 upgrade itself, and they will have far more tools available to limit available user options and cajole them down the garden path.

[SuperDave]

I think they are leaning more toward OS as a service.

[Geek-9pm]

I have used alt+F4 and it closed the window.