Is possible to use OSX, Linux and DOS together on same disk?

[MIRKOSOFT]

Hi!

I have old Mac with OSX 10.4 Tiger and want to use it on single disk OSX and MS-DOS and Linux Mint based Commodore OS Vision. OSX and Linux together working.
I know that DOS needs other partition type than OSX, but I need answer, I don't want to lost fight without any check.

Can anybody help me if is possible to use OSX, Linux and DOS together?
I tried it before and DOS was in bootlist displayed as foreign OS when was used OSX boot menu and was never success to enter it.
Is possible to override it? OSX is x86 version.

Thank you for you for your patience.
Miro

[Geek-9pm]

This is not a real answer to your question. 
Are you aware the Linux and run some DOS commands in virtual Machine?

A Mac running OS-X can have Linux on another partition the same hard drive.
However, OS-X can not call the Linux system to anything. You only share data.

Below is a general coverage of dual-booting a PC or Mac.
https://www.howtogeek.com/187789/dual-booting-explained-how-you-can-have-multiple-operating-systems-on-your-computer/

[MIRKOSOFT]

Hi!

Really won't VM in OSX and Linux.
And need real DOS.
VM's I have in Windows for testing purposes, nothing more, I need real OS...

Q was mainly for DOS on OSX and Linux partition, dual-boot I know - problem is to get correctly DOS with these system - I mean native DOS.

Miro

[Geek-9pm]

Mirom ,more detail is needed.
When you say DOS,do you mean Microsoft DOS 6.22 or an earlier version?

You can not put Microsoft DOS on a hard drive for use as the boot drive on a Apple Computer. Because any modern Apple computer will not allow MBR drives to be used as boot drives.

MS DOS can only boot from a small MBR drive.

You need to think about what you really need. 

I  suggest you get a floppy drive to boot DOS.

[MIRKOSOFT]

Ok, details and you got me hope, high hope to realize it!
Here:
Notebook with IDE HDD.
Installed: OSX 10.4 Tiger, Linux Mint
DOS: MS-DOS 7.10 (5GB FAT32 partition created on OSX partition table, in experiments also on DOSWIN parttion table)
Problem: when I try to boot DOS from OSX: foreign OS  / when I try to boot DOS from Linux Mint: booting fails
Notebook has floppy, ok, I can create DOS partition and when I will need to boot to DOS, I do it by floppy.

I'll test it in few days - Currently have HDD not connected for reason - DOS or OSX or Linux and installed is tested OSX.

For more details notebook is HP Compaq Evo Notebook N1000v.
I know about OSX installation, I know it's not Apple - you can crucify me, but I want it only for development for old platforms...

Miro

[Geek-9pm]

If you wish to sell programs for older computers, notice that not very many are using older systems. Did yu know that?
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-people-use-windows-xp-chart-2017-5
Not many use Linux.
And Linux users seldom pay for anything. 

[Geek-9pm]

Some more information you need to know.
The Ubuntu people do have a way to boot both Linux and Apple OS on the same machine. This can even include Windows. But DOS is out of the game.

Here is the problem. DOS was never intended for huge disk drives. DOS must has a small disk. It is a DOS limit. Either another drive or Linux emulation of DOS.
https://www.linux.org/threads/dos-on-linux.8615/

[MIRKOSOFT]

Really, I had installed OSX and Linux... and DOS was installed, before reboot it was working, after reboot booting to DOS fails - available only OSX and Linux (3rd option was not valid) - your diskette boot idea is great and I do it after install and will report.

In case of selling programs is answer here:
I'm working primarily on Windows 10 and for this I'm selling software.
In OSX and Linux I want to begin and first are older OSes - OSX Tiger has available also UniBin and Linux is variable platform.
This I will do not software for money.
Also - DOS is my hobby, so no money, like my retrocomputing hobby - Commodore 8/16-bit platform - I do all for free and it, I think, looks normally...
BTW: In 64-bit Windows 10 I'm using for compatibility NTVDMx64 - it allows me totally run 16, 32, and 64-bit software...

I'm creating also websites, but near all is for free - I'm not employed in IT.
So, my reasons or decisions are more like hobby and all risks I know and I understand.

But thank you very much that you're understand me.
Miro

[patio]

System Commander...you will not get what you want to accomplish without a 3rd party solution...as it won't work.
Not Free...but worth it.

[Geek-9pm]

You original question was:
Is possible to use OSX, Linux and DOS together on same disk?

I think you mean DOS versions at or below 6.22, which was released with Windows 3.11 a long time ago before we had large hard drives.

If so, then the exact answer is NO.

And even with exceptions, the answer has to be NO for old versions of DOS running is native mode.

The problem is  MS-DOS in its native mode will cause irreversible damage to any hard drive with more that 8 GB of space.

This has been fully documented in the past. Microsoft has no made any change to MS0DOS 6.22 to eliminate this problem. You might rad about changes to Windows 89 or Windows NT. The does not apply to MS0DOS 5.22 and earlier. Ignotr any user who claims they can run MS DOS 6.22 in native mode on a hard drive that has more that 8 GB of space. They are wrong. The changes made to Windows 98 and Windows NT do not go back and re write history. The is no such thing as a time machine that changes software history.

I repeat.If yu run old MS-DOS in native mode on a drive that has more than 8 GB of space, the native DOS tools  will do irreversible damage to any data on the hard drive. The fact that some users report no damage does not mean there is no damage.

The link below gives some of the key points.
https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000273.htm

The solution is to boot from a floppy and never ever try to read your  large hard drive using MS-dos in  native mode.

A better solution is to get and old PC, put in a 3 GB hard drive and install MS-DOS and use something to network it to another computer.

That is the best I can do for you. 

Footnote: All PC having i386 and above can run in protected mode. When old MS-DOS boots it is says in real mode. There  never was any switch to protected mode, because MS-DOS was not written for the i386 and above.
When you run DOS in a virtual machine, toy are in protected mode.
Any 64 bit OS must stay in protected mode.

[patio]

Geek...see above...the solution will work on any size HDD...all his partitions need different formatting...The app i suggested handles it the best of all i have tested and tried.
Likely why it's not Free.

[Geek-9pm]

Geek...see above...the solution will work on any size HDD...all his partitions need different formatting...The app i suggested handles it the best of all i have tested and tried.
Likely why it's not Free.

I am often wrong.
The HDD size limit is intrinsic to older version of DOS.
Does System Commander fix this problem of older  MS-DOS?
I think he is using a large disk drive.

[patio]

Its not up to System Commander to do that...it's up to him to create each partition within the size limits...format them appropiately for the OS's he wants to run...then System Commander manages all the above.

He has some work to do...

[Geek-9pm]

Its not up to System Commander...
He has some work to do...

Yes, indeed.
So far,I do not see where he gave the specs of his hardware.
The date and type of the BIOS firmware is important.
He said 'old Mac' but not the exact model.
"...Tiger was released to the public on April 29, 2005"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Tiger
MS-DOS needs a MBR disk to boot directly. The Tiger can be used with GUID.
The only workaround, I think,is GRUB2.

[MIRKOSOFT]

Ok, I tried to understand.

Really was searching for System Commander and found nothing.
Knows anybody where to get it?

Thank you very much.
Miro

[Geek-9pm]

Found in a search:
https://download.cnet.com/s/system-commander/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/systemcommander/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Commander

Commander (SC for short) was a boot manager/loader software application developed by VCOM. In the event that you have more than one operating system installed on your system (i.e. personal computer, harddrive), System Commander makes it possible to choose which one of these operating systems to boot. In this regard System Commander is comparable in overall functionality to software like NTLDR, LILO, GRUB, and Graphical Boot Manager, which also makes it possible to make such a choice at boot time.

Does that help any? 

[MIRKOSOFT]

Ok, C++ sources there are, but how complete... neeeds check.

M<iro

[Geek-9pm]

Here us another free tool you may wan to try:
https://www.partitionwizard.com/
Notice there is a free version. Thais software works with Windows 10 and many other systems. It is currently supported. I have only used the free version.

Earlier I said that MS-DOS would destroy a large hard drive. That is not true. Just two days ago I did n experiment and found I could make a small FAT partition on my 500 GB HDD. But it has to be the very first primary and there  to be a MBR on the disk. I boot MS-DOS 6.22 from a CD and can read both the CD and the C: drive. The CD pretends it is A: and MS-DOS seems to like that.

I do not know if the partition manager can boot DOS from my hard drive. Id o not want to try.I think it is safer to just boot from the CD drive. As I recall, I put it on a mini CD and it worked because MS-DOS 6.22 does not take much space at all.

Here is some more info about how this is done:

Make a Boot-able MS-DOS 6.22 CD.

Have fun! 

[MIRKOSOFT]

I found solution in other topic.
Really I need not optical drive - like CD, DVD or other.
I wnt to put to place of DVD drive else one harddisk - this solves all.
Why:
HDD1
1. OSX
2. Linux
HDD2:
1. DOS
2. Windows

Notebook has popup menu at boot time which can select between devices from boot...
Really I'll have available 1x FDD 2x HDD and I think it is enough.

Miro

[Geek-9pm]

MIRKOSOFT,
Good idea!
Second drive is the DVD slot is great use of a laptop.
Most of the time you never need the CD/DVD anyway. And if you do, a small portable drive on USB will work for the few times yu need it.

To boot DOS, it must be first primary and use FAT but not FAT 32.
Older DOS versions can not read FAT 32. And older DOS can not read beyond 8GB. That is why you want it to be first on the drive.

[MIRKOSOFT]

Here it needs note - I'm using MS-DOS 7.10 with FAT32 support, older versions not. DOS 7.10 has many benefits, so I decided for.

Miro

[Geek-9pm]

Good choice.
I named DOS 6.22 because it was the last stand alone DOS for Microsoft.
And it was the last that ran or pre-386 computers.
MS-DOS 7 and other versions require a 32 bit CPU.
Here is a site that gives user support for a modified version of MS-DOS 7.10 :
http://dosworld.czweb.org/
Most of it is in English.

[MIRKOSOFT]

That links provides really limited support, even two links are dead.
Nice is that it has also Czech comments - I'm from Slovakia and know Czech language perfectly - we were Czechoslovakia...

Miro

[Geek-9pm]

Glad you found it. 
They are active and can offer support.

[BC_Programmer]

I named DOS 6.22 because it was the last stand alone DOS for Microsoft.

They stated they were using MS-DOS 7.10 immediately after your first post assuming DOS 6.22 asking for details. (reply #3 and #4).

And it was the last that ran or pre-386 computers. MS-DOS 7 and other versions require a 32 bit CPU.

But... They have an Intel Mac, as evidenced by being able to run Linux Mint... Which also requires a 32-bit CPU....


In any case, I think both OS X and the Apple Firmware for the system are likely to be the thing throwing up most of the barriers to dual booting these systems. OSX, Bootcamp, and the Firmware as I understand it work together to allow booting other systems and if the system came with 10.4 than that was all in it's very early stages.