External Harddrive USB

[truenorth]

Happy New Year to All
This problem has been annoying me for quite a while and i am at the end of my imagination on how to solve it.
I bought a number of cases that are able to accept what were internal HD's and use them instead as external devices connected by 2.0 USB connections.
The 2 computers i am eneavoring to use the device on are both running WinXP Pro SP2.Both computers have front and rear 2,0 USB ports.
   I have tried 2 computers and 2 different inernal HD's.
Both HD's contained data/programs/etc. The 1st was an 80gb. The 2nd is a 8.2 gb. The larger had been in an XPpro machine as a primary (with problems associated with that particular HD ,software not hardware problems). The 8.2 is from a win98se as a slave.
   I configured both to slave before installing them in the case. The case has it's own power supply.
  I am using a 250gb external HD constantly in one of the 2 tested computers with no problems. I also use Flash drives between 512 mb and 8gb on both on a regular basis without problems.
  On one of the 2 computer for a very brief instance   there was a "new hardware found" and nothing after that. There is no refference on either computer in "device manager " as to that external being there.
   As well "my computer" does not show it present.
   I purchased 3 of these cases from a reputable retailer online. However there is no mfgr. name on them thus cannot contact them.There is an instruction leaflet and a software installation disk. However the instructions say that drivers (on the disk) are only necessary for win98 which is not my case.
  I hope i have provided sufficient info for guidance. however if more is required i shall be pleased to try and provide. truenorth

[Deerpark]

Is it 3 of the same brand of cases? And they don't work on either of the computers you've tried?

[DaveLembke]

Try CS setting Cable Select ( Slave wont work for ext HD's)

 I configured both to slave before installing them in the case.

[truenorth]

Deerpark -- I have only tried all this in one of the 3 cases thus far.
DaveLembke--Well i did not know that.Will try to find out the CS for my 8.2 Maxtor (not on the HD case and given it's size probably not very recent)
   Will get back regardless of the result when i re configure.
       Thanks Guys,truenorth

[DaveLembke]

You should be able to find the jumper config for the older hard drive on Maxtors website. Some hard drives dont have it in a nice easy label specifying, so you have to search by model # on the mfr website and look at the config, or trial and error of moving jumpers around until it works, some older drives of the 8 GB period had extra jumper settings for supporting older OS with no large drive support like a Fujitsu 5.0 GB drive I have that I use for testing and cleaning virus's out of drives.

Good luck... i have a feeling once you get it set to CS Cable Select it will work well!

Dave

[truenorth]

Dave Lembke & others following,
Where to begin? There has been some progress so i guess one could say there is less water in the swamp.
Let us put some names on the 2 computers as the results obtained are different.But 1st let me say that via a google search on the precise Maxtor HD i was able to find and download the full manual for the HD.
  One computer is a Compaq Presario and the other is a Sony Vaio (both about 2003 models) The Compaq has 2 USB ports front and rear. The Sony claims to have 5 ports ( i see 2 in front and 2 in rear--where the 5th is i don't know).
   On the Compaq there is a 250 external HD installed in 1 of the 2 front ports. There is a wireless USB router transmitter installed on 1 of the 2 rear ports.
   I 1st installed the case HD (8.7 Maxtor) (after configuring the pins to CS) into the port beside the other HD in front(this is on the Compaq). Messages are= "this device cannot start'  "USB device not recognized" Comes up in device manager as "USB root hub(5 ports) in top position in the list "unknown device"It does not appear in the "My Computer" table of devices.Tried all the other open USB ports= no change.
   On the Sony= It was found as "new hardware". Window open which says="USB mass storage device is a high speed USB device and will function at a reduced speed when plugged into a non high speed port."When i bring up the device within device manager the window that opens says=" the hub shown in bold type have free ports that can support high speed USB device." the bold type is below "NEC PCI to USB enhanced host controller(B1) The one in the list is right below that and states="USB root hub (5 ports).If relevant there are the following abnormalities present in device manager.1.the is an exclamation beside "USB mass storage device". There are 3 question marks all within "other devices"  they are "other devices" "SM Bus controller"and "16550".By the way just to be consitant one of the rear USB ports has a cable from my wireless router in it.Others are empty except when being periodicaly used by flash drives,etc. Never have a problem with any of the ports in the past with many types of devices.
  So i think it is safe to say the pin config on the HD has changed things. Cannot fathom why it finds slower USB ports when i feel certain they are ALL 2.0 and the HD case is labled 2.0. Weird how the findings are different on the 2 computers as to the device.By the way i followed the device manager to see what would happen when i looked to update drivers and the reply was that none better could be found (on the Sony).Like writing a book. Wish i knew how to copy items from the desktop display --it would sure cut down on the typing--oh well another subject for another day. truenorth

[DaveLembke]

Not sure where to exactly tell you to go from here. It sounds like you have everything the way that it should work now but it isn't...

I'd almost suggest trying a different HD case, but according to the copy/paset from your original statement, it sounds like you have already tried different cases.

{I bought a number of cases that are able to accept what were internal HD's and use them instead as external devices connected by 2.0 USB connections.
The 2 computers i am eneavoring to use the device on are both running WinXP Pro SP2.Both computers have front and rear 2,0 USB ports.
   I have tried 2 computers and 2 different inernal HD's.}

Just out of curiousity are the cases all the same make, or different models, have you contacted the support from the case MFR to see if they can assist. At this point I would almost suggest that being that you have somewhat similar results to where the drives wont talk two 2 computers that otherwise talk fine with other USB devices that its a case issues IDE/USB translation board, since the configuration is correct now for the IDE drives themselves.

Only other issues I've seen with USB Ext drives are where people add extensions to the USB cables and exceed 18 feet, and where Windows 98 has issues supporting USB Ext HD's, and a CD supplied with the external drive has to be installed to support communications.

The other thing done wrong is that people introduce the Ext HD in an uninitialized state. Its best to turn on the USB EXT HD before connecting it to the USB port. Then its already initialized against the internat IDE/USB translation board. Then connect to USB port and you would then see on the system tray that a drive was found, and then it should tell you that the drive is now ready for use.

Good Luck...

Dave

[truenorth]

DaveLembke,
Thank you again for your continued assistance. I would clear up the misunderstanding re the number of "cases" tried to this point.While i do have 3 cases i have only tried one.I have used 2 different HDD as previously stated. I don't believe i was turning on the HDD in the external case until "after' it was plugged in to the USB port. So i do have 2 "new" things i can try from your suggestions. I have a tentative lead on the maybe manufacturer of the cases. I did a google search on the only "unique" markings on the box. It is RK-350A. This initially led me to a company in Australia called "Anywhere Computers" they kindly responded and suggested that a company that has the exact same name that is in the U.S. could be the manufacturer or the distributor. An email to the U.S. entity was sent yesterday with no responce yet. I will try the 2 suggestions that are included in your last post and get back to you probably on Sunday. Truenorth

[soybean]

On the Sony= It was found as "new hardware". Window open which says="USB mass storage device is a high speed USB device and will function at a reduced speed when plugged into a non high speed port."When i bring up the device within device manager the window that opens says=" the hub shown in bold type have free ports that can support high speed USB device." the bold type is below "NEC PCI to USB enhanced host controller(B1) The one in the list is right below that and states="USB root hub (5 ports).If relevant there are the following abnormalities present in device manager.1.the is an exclamation beside "USB mass storage device". There are 3 question marks all within "other devices"  they are "other devices" "SM Bus controller"and "16550".By the way just to be consitant one of the rear USB ports has a cable from my wireless router in it.Others are empty except when being periodicaly used by flash drives,etc. Never have a problem with any of the ports in the past with many types of devices.
  So i think it is safe to say the pin config on the HD has changed things. Cannot fathom why it finds slower USB ports when i feel certain they are ALL 2.0 and the HD case is labled 2.0. Weird how the findings are different on the 2 computers as to the device.By the way i followed the device manager to see what would happen when i looked to update drivers and the reply was that none better could be found (on the Sony).Like writing a book. Wish i knew how to copy items from the desktop display --it would sure cut down on the typing--oh well another subject for another day. truenorth

Are you sure all ports on both computers are USB 2.0?  I have an ECS K7S5A PRO motherboard on which two front ports are USB 1.1 and four rear ports are USB 2.0.  Also, some devices that rated 2.0 are backwards compatible to 1.1; some devices are not.

[truenorth]

Soybean,If you mean  "are you sure" then the answer has to be no. If by sure you mean do i have some printed material or data that states they are all 2.0 on both computers at all ports. However i present the following as circumstantial "evidence" that they are. 2.0 I am constantly using many devices of many different types that are ALL 2.0 and i never get any hiccups or error messages when i insert them.2.I believe given the vintage (approx 2003) of the 2 computers that it is not likely that they would contain 1.0 USB ports as i think that computers of that vintage were past the time of common useage of 1.0 USB ports. I do have Everest installed on all my computers. If that program is capable of displaying the types of ports in the 2 computers currently involved with this problem then i would be glad to check to verify their type. Thank you for joining the discussion Soybean.truenorth

Soybean, I have used Everest on the Presario computer and i can report the following. I do not know if it is relevant to your point as i do not know how to interpret the info.
Under "PCI devices there is a value of "via usb 2.0 enhanced controller'
 Further  in the "summary" page there are the following values. 3 identical "usb1 controller with via vt83c572 pci-usb controller" beside them and a last (4th one) which is different and has "usb2 controller and a via usb 2.0 enhanced host controller" after it. Does this help and what does it mean? If this has presented facts that help i will proceed to run the same Everest test on the Sony. Please advise. truenorth

[truenorth]

An update on this continuing problem. As to relevance that is for greater minds to determine. I have tried this procedure in a 2nd of the 3 new external cases with identical results.In addition i introduced a 3rd 20 GB hd into the 2nd case.
A new phenomenon has just occured this morning.On the presario i use an 8GB flash drive on that computer on 1 of the 2 front USB ports(always the same one).The other front port has a 250GB external usb drive in it (nearly permanently).I have never had any kind of problem or error message when using either device.That computer was left on overnight (not my normal habit most of the time my computers are shut down at night).This morning when i inserted the 8GB flash drive i got a message advising that the port was a 1.1 and would be slower (remember i also got this message once with the external case on the same port) and that i should use a high speed port from the list. However below the USB Port Controller (6Port) which was highlighted none of the ones below were highlighted. The file size i transferred this morning to the 8GB flash drive was of the general size i usually transfer and this time it was considerably slower (like 20 minutes versus 3 mins.)maybe this will bring about new ideas as to what may be going on.It has been a while since anyone has contributed to solutions. I hope people have not given up on me.truenorth

[Dusty]

The instructions which came with my usb/ide/sata adapter state that the hdd MUST be configured as Master (not Slave or CS).

Hope this helps - rest assured we have not given up on you.

[patio]

Have you tried re-installing your MBoard drivers yet ? ?

[truenorth]

Dusty, Thanks for coming onboard.Your comment seems to contradict Soybeans of an earlier post wherein he stated to set the jumpers to "CS" ( i had previously set them at Slave. I have never tried or thought of putting them on master--based on the assumption that the O/S internal drive "must" be the one set at master. Comments please.
Patio,Also thanks for joining the fray. Short answer=no. Don't know how to do that.Is it something to put the fear of God in me. These 2 computers are otherwise humming along great now whereas there was a time they were both totally useless. I really would not want to go back to those days.However obviously i would sure like to be able to use these cases as i have a great deal of various internal HDD that i would like to press into use again and i love the portability that externals give.
truenorth

[Dusty]

Dusty, Thanks for coming onboard.Your comment seems to contradict Soybeans of an earlier post wherein he stated to set the jumpers to "CS" ( i had previously set them at Slave. I have never tried or thought of putting them on master--based on the assumption that the O/S internal drive "must" be the one set at master. Comments please

I hesitate to question Soybean's advice but consider:
a)  I assume the internal Master drive is on an ide setup with the possibility of having a Master and a Slave on the same cable.  If it was the only drive on that ide then it couldn't perform as a slave, there being no master.  An external drive cannot be the Slave to an internal Master, it's on a different connection.
b)  The external drive is on a usb connection all on its lonesome, it's the only one on that connection so must be the Master of all it surveys.

 But seriously, I posted the instructions I received.  Try running the external drive as Master, it can't do any harm, and let us know the outcome.

Cheers.

[themanshan]

From what I have seen when internal hard disks are placed into enclosures the jumper should be removed. You may have better luck connecting to another PC. If you're sure your USB 2.0 devices are operating properly, try opening disk management and seeing if the hard disk is shown there.  This problem you have is pretty notorious.

http://www.Themanshan.com

[patio]

From what I have seen when internal hard disks are placed into enclosures the jumper should be removed

This would depend on whose drive it is as they are not all jumpered the same...

[truenorth]

Gentlemen all, Well there are 2 more options which i will endeavor and report the results.I shall try 1st to change the jumper setting on a particular HD and one specific case (of the 3) to "master" and if that doesn't alter anything i shall then try a "no jumper" in the same case.If neither gets the desired result i shall try the exact same thing in another case.If that doesn't work I'll repeat the exercise with a different HD.
 I would request that you all remember that this is the only USB device that is causing this problem Even the one time flash drive hiccup of stating a 1.1 USB port was being used has never been repeated even on the same port with the same flash drive. I usually devote my Sundays to getting in over my head with my computers (so as not to do what i would really like to do --which is play with them all the time. So I'll hopefully be in a position to relate more on or after Sunday. Stay tuned  and again thank you all for trying to help me. truenorth

[truenorth]

OK here we go: This only pertains to the Sony computer. The exercise has been completed and the results are. I get messages when inserting the USB from the case into all of the ports that the device will run faster if i insert it in a higher speed port. So i think we can conclude that the USB ports are seeing something.However nothing related to the device appears either in "my computer" or in "device manager". However i want to draw your attention back to the 3rd of my posts on this item where i tell of the faults displayed in "device manager. I invite those of you who may wish to provide input to the following web site where it deals with the "SM bus controller " fault http://www.helpero.com/Questions-and-answers/Computers/Drivers/Where-can-I-find-SM-Bus-Controller-driver_10413.html . This fault does seem to have a connection with USB issues. If you follow the recommendation of how to solve it there is a file on the linked site to download. However it has a caution that this should only be done by programmers and/or developers (which i most definitely am NOT. There is a reference to an alternative software to install for those that are not the aforementioned. However how to get to where it is located is not explained nor linked. By the way this was done with the jumpers in "master" and also with no jumper installed.the only "highlighted USB port shown in the device manager is "USB root hub(5ports)" which i have no idea what is being referred to. i shall report on the Presario after i have run the same tests on it. Meanwhile perhaps the problem on the Sony can be addressed by itself. Thanks all. truenorth

Bulletin:Shortly after writing the above i decided to check device manager again.Below "Universal bus controller" there was a new item listed for the 1st time (remember on "no jumper")It is "USB mass storage device. It has a yellow exclamation beside it and the properties states "this device cannot start".It states the location of the device to be"0(USB to IDE). It suggests clicking on the "troubleshoot option". Doing so opens a "support help" window. It seems to want something typed in a search box. No idea what to type to get a desirable result. At this point the external case is plugged into one of the 2 front ports. Are you more confused? I sure am. truenorth

[truenorth]

OK now the Presario. A bit different. The only suspicious evidence that inserting the USB case into any of the available USB ports (1 front 1 rear) is that whenever the case is plugged in the device manager list keeps scrolling --when it is unplugged or turned off fromit's own on/off switch the scrolling stops. There is a new entry in the device manager list under universal serial bus controller that is reffer ed to as "unknown device". This must be some detection of the USB case as when the case is turned off the entry is gone.However no new device appears in "my computer" at any time. The final test was done using a previously unused  (to the testing process) 3.5 GB Hd from a fully functional computer as it one and only HD. It contains amongst other things the win98SE operating system. That's it for my current round of testing. truenorth

[truenorth]

A EUREKA moment has finally occurred on this issue. ALL the problems associated with this issue are now resolved.I no longer get messages re use a 2.0  usb port instead of a 1.1 No problems with device recognition in either the Sony Vaio or the Compaq Presario. There are 2 partitions on an 80GB Seagate (that was an internal) both NTSF and fully functional. All USB ports on both computers see and properly display the device. The only thing that in my opinion solved this was putting the jumper pin selection to "master" on the case contained harddrive. Because after doing that and nothing additional it worked.Thank you all that endeavored to assist me on this problem truenorth

[patio]

Good News indeed, truenorth ...