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Author Topic: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft  (Read 10744 times)

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patio

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Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« on: February 13, 2009, 06:57:48 AM »
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The European Commission initiated new antitrust proceedings against Microsoft last month for bundling Internet Explorer with its Windows operating system, and now the open-source group behind Firefox has become involved as well. Specifically, Mozilla has been granted what's called "interested third party" status in the case, which allows it to submit arguments to the European regulator and access confidential case files.

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Broni


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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2009, 10:03:04 PM »
...which will never happen in US...sad, isn't it?

evilfantasy

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2009, 11:20:53 PM »
I'm disappointed in Mozilla.

I'm sure they wouldn't want a private group deciding how they packaged their product. Bunch of cry babies with lawyers is how I see it.

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2009, 11:38:43 PM »
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... how they packaged their product.
Where do you get that idea?
It is about breaking the law.
When a company will lie, cheat, threat and harass, it not about packaging.
And that is so in the USA or anyplace in the civilized world.




evilfantasy

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 09:42:30 AM »
Yea, OK....

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2009, 10:12:31 AM »
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... how they packaged their product.
Where do you get that idea?
It is about breaking the law.
When a company will lie, cheat, threat and harass, it not about packaging.
And that is so in the USA or anyplace in the civilized world.





when you have a corporate advantage, you use it. The fact that that company (Microsoft) had a monopoly in the market is irrelevant. In the case of the previous IE Vs Netscape war, it was fully possible for netscape to get a much wider user base then they did before Microsoft made it free, and subsequently had it install with windows 98. If Netscape had been more proactive and had a bit of foresight as to what their main competitor, being also the vendor of a operating system, might do, they could have easily slashed the price of netscape (possibly made it free for a usable edition, with a paid upgrade of sorts) they could have easily captured a lot of customers who later would install and use netscape rather then the preinstalled IE.

I'm not arguing with the fact that it might seem unfair, but why is Microsoft always the brunt of this? Is Safari not force-installed with iTunes? Is apple not then taking advantage of it's practical monopoly in the MP3 player market by doing this?

At what point does the size of a company determine exactly what it is allowed to do or not do in an attempt to oust it's competition? Should the monetary resources behind each company and used with these "war-like" advanced be regulated? No.

people continuously complain about "microsoft this" and microsoft that, all the while they buy and use Microsoft products. The very people that complain about these things are a part of what created this problem.


When Microsoft was a smaller company, and had a deal with IBM to allow IBM to distribute MS-DOS with each new PC, was that not a monopoly on the PC market? The only difference is the market was smaller and competition has sprung up in the meantime. Competition that entered the market knowing full well Microsoft's dominant position. Whining about facts that were essentially common knowledge when the company entered into the same sectors as Microsoft is ridiculous. They decided to enter the same sector. They thought they could compete. But they can't. so they cry "MONOPOLY!"...

Which brings up another interesting analogy.

Microsoft basically has the Blues, Greens, Yellows, Reds, and Orange sets of properties, as well as the railroads. the rest of the board is owned by other companies. Would this break the rules of the game? To own so many properties? No.

because the player came upon these properties fair and square through purchasing and trading...


lastly:


Quote
... how they packaged their product.
Where do you get that idea?
It is about breaking the law.
When a company will lie, cheat, threat and harass, it not about packaging.
And that is so in the USA or anyplace in the civilized world.





when did Microsoft lie?
when did they cheat?
when did they make any threats?
when did they harass?


The fact of the matter is, we, microsoft's customers, want more functionality from the OS. we've wanted that since windows 3.1. in answer to our wants Microsoft decided to have internet explorer included with the OS. But apparently, some great good says this is a No No because poor struggling Browser vendor netscape was barely keeping itself afloat with it's quickly falling apart Browser.

This same BS arguement can be used by Corel since Microsoft included wordpad, Adobe because microsoft included Paint, and who knows how many other programs. The fact that the included program is of less function then the other vendors doesn't matter does it, it's the fact that it's included.


People are trying to get two things at once. Less microsoft and more from windows. without third party licensing as they did with hyperterminal, Microsoft won't be able to deliver on any of these promises because of all this BS crybaby crap that all the other companies are throwing at them. people asked for integrated Virus protection. Microsoft included Windows Defender as a basic malware prevention. And yet this is microsoft "taking advantage of it's monopoly?" No. It's microsoft giving in to consumer demand to try to improve it's image. these Crybaby companies sure as heck aren't making that any easier by whining and complaining about any new program that Microsoft includes.

one day a system tweaker company will cry foul on Control panel. Then what?

"Microsoft Windows 7 - No control panel edition"

sounds farfetch'd? It isn't. At the time MS added the IE browser the internet was quickly coming to the fore. they decided to include the browser. After all- you cannot download netscape without a browser already installed, so it would be extremely stupid not to leave out this basic browser (and guess what, it sure was basic- compared to IE today it's like notepad to word, which further fleshes out my previous analogies to notepad as well).
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

evilfantasy

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2009, 10:27:40 AM »
Here is an example of what can happen if you don't fight for your rights, and in this case your product.

E-Harmony forced to carry gay matches - Isn't much different than the MS lawsuit.

"We have a voice too and we want your company to help us get exposure"

Cry babies!

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2009, 11:19:58 AM »
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when did Microsoft lie?
when did they cheat?
when did they make any threats?
when did they harass?

What planet did you come from? How old are you?

My personal experience. The experience of thousands  of users
The English version of Windows 3.11 was different
 from the Spanish version in one important way. Adm the English version was later 'fixed' with no admission of guilt.

(I only had the English and Spanish versions, I don't know about the other languages. And I bought both of these in the USA, not Europe.)

The English version was a cheat, a threat and a harass. It targeted DR DOS and only DR DOS. I know. I did the tests. They could be and were done by any user who had the original 3.11 version of Windows.. As a direct result,  DR DOS lost the market advantage they had in Europe and finally died. Microsoft killed them with a cheat, a threat and a harass.

And that was very, very well documented. No mistake. It was the Smoking gun. Not a glitch. Not a computability problem. This was, perhaps, the most famous 'malware' of that time frame. A bit of hidden code whose sole purpose was to scare any user that tired to install Windows 3.11 over DR DOS. Only DR DOS. And is was NOT a countability issue. Later MS removed the 'malware' from later issues of 3.11 without any fanfare.
For that trick MS should have been banned from the European Market for several years. Not amount of money could pay for that kind of crime.
It was proof that Microsoft does not believe in free, open, legal, fair and just business practices for all.

It not enough to just defend your own rights, you have to respect the rights of others.

It became apparent that MS had instilled into their people the criminal mind set of the corporation. They got got caught. They were sorry. Sorry they go caught.

Yes, that was a long time ago. Now MS is just a warm fuzzy Grizzly Bear. Let it sit in your lap. Or Laptop.  :-*


patio

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2009, 11:20:03 AM »
I have all 4 Railroads and Boardwalk and Park Place with 3 Hotels each....i'm not worried.
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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2009, 11:26:46 AM »
hahahaha........

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2009, 11:28:27 AM »
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I have all 4 Railroads and Boardwalk and Park Place with 3 Hotels each....i'm not worried.

Nobody wants to play with you anymore!

evilfantasy

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2009, 11:30:33 AM »
Does everyone know that this is the same group (European Commission) who tried to regulate the shape of a banana? Don't believe it? EU to scrap straight banana laws

Now tell me the EU isn't just a bunch of busy bodies....

Probably the same sort who go peeking into neighbors windows and report them for having sex in an immoral fashion.

patio

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2009, 11:31:12 AM »
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Specifically, Mozilla has been granted what's called "interested third party" status in the case, which allows it to submit arguments to the European regulator and access confidential case files.

Kinda simplistic but i believe this is the Mozilla Foundation's only goal...it has nothing to do with piling on MS...
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2009, 11:36:13 AM »
No but I think it's kind of a loop-hole they are exploiting to gain "unfair" insight to MS. When the third party is your competition I don't think that qualifies as being an "interested third party."

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2009, 01:02:16 PM »
I wonder what they would do to banana trees that refused to follow the set ruleset of banana shape... lol


the DR DOS install prevention was 100% valid. Microsoft didn't know exactly how compatible DR DOS was with MS DOS, and they use a lot of obscure MS-DOS functions that may or may not be implemented in DR DOS.


Honestly the whining is pretty much on par with the whining by IBM when Windows 3.11 stopped working under OS/2, with IBM blaming microsoft for the problem, when in fact IBM had hard-coded certain portions of GDI and KERNEL and other system DLLs that they patched in memory when running windows under OS/2. short story is it was IBMs fault since any new version at all would have broken OS/2's functionality in that regard.

Chances are circumstances are similar with DR DOS.

BTW, the "fix" in both instances was to use old versions of GDI, KERNEL, and USER libraries.

In either case- it was MSs perogative. if users didn't like it- they didn't have to use windows. They made the choice to have windows instead of DR DOS installed. Warranted it was a bit sly to do so but thats the way business works.


I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.