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Author Topic: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft  (Read 10745 times)

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Geek-9pm


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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2009, 02:41:56 PM »
Quote
the DR DOS install prevention was 100% valid. Microsoft didn't know exactly how compatible DR DOS was with MS DOS, and they use a lot of obscure MS-DOS functions that may or may not be implemented in DR DOS

Where do you get that? You made it up. You have not read this stuff over. It was before your time. Do some research. M$ did not defend it.

That first build of 3.11 would install on any version of DOS, even one used by your Grandmother. It was back compatible. But not for DR DOS, unless you knew the work around.

The Bogus message was cracked by many users. Unlike other warnings it was hidden from view by any debug tool in general use. (But if you had a good computer Lab you could find it.)  It was a scam. It was only in the first release of 3.11 and MS never ever defended it. Instead the PR made a lame excuse about it was a prank by one of their programmers who was later punished. The prank was never any kind of protection. At first I was thinking that their was some function mismatch.  That was my first reaction until I did some testing. Then I later learned that others studied it and found it to be only a scare tactic. The thing never did any test for functionality.

I could install DR DOS  and then install Windows 3.11 in Spanish and the message would never come up. Because it was not even there. The same chunk of stealth code was not in all later releases of 3.11 but the damage had already been done by a 'prank' from somebody on the MS team. Who believes that MS higher ups did not know about this from the start?

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."


evilfantasy

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2009, 03:26:47 PM »
When you go to a GM dealer to buy a car should they have to inform you, in writing,  that Ford has a similar model for a better price?

Geek-9pm


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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2009, 05:21:33 PM »
Quote
When you go to a GM dealer to buy a car should they have to inform you, in writing,  that Ford has a similar model for a better price?

This is not about Cars.  But if M$ was GM, they would start a ad campaign that claims no Ford can be licensed for use on paved roads.



evilfantasy

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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2009, 05:40:50 PM »
Oh OK ??? And Ford, Mozilla, the EU, whoever, can also spend their own money on their own ad campaign and not use the MS brand and funds to do it.


BC_Programmer


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Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2009, 06:03:59 PM »
Quote
the DR DOS install prevention was 100% valid. Microsoft didn't know exactly how compatible DR DOS was with MS DOS, and they use a lot of obscure MS-DOS functions that may or may not be implemented in DR DOS

Where do you get that? You made it up. You have not read this stuff over. It was before your time. Do some research. M$ did not defend it.


Quote
The message generated if DR DOS was used with Windows 3.1 betas was: "Non-fatal error detected: Error number [varied]


kind of like the error you would get if a MS-DOS function returned a unexpected result. Microsoft just fleshed out the error and placed a warning in the release version. God forbid users actually know what caused the error!

Also of note is that certain switches with HIMEM.SYS and EMM386 with PC-DOS and MS-DOS can cause similar errors, which likely points to DR-DOS XMS memory manager as well.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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    Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
    « Reply #20 on: February 14, 2009, 11:57:58 PM »
    Micro$oft's use of FUD tactics to spread and retain their customer base is the stuff of legends.  The company's deliberate and admitted policy of Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish should get them boycotted by all freedom-loving people.


    The most recent threat (and perhaps the most frightening of all) to the freedom-to-use-your-computer-as-you-wish comes from the "Trusted Computing" (TC) initiative, of which Microsoft is a major player.  TC advocates want to make sure that you can only install and use "authorized" products on your new computer's hardware.

    In other words, that means only their products will be usable on future hardware: it's just another way for them to control the market, masquerading as a way to protect computers from malware.  Alternative operating systems like Linux and Mac will go extinct, as will anything open source.  If it isn't made by Microsoft and their lackeys, it won't be "certified", and the installation will be aborted.

    One has to question how long after that will it take before the OS logs and reports your attempt to install "unauthorized software" to the company, and then they retaliate against the "disloyal customer" by remotely deleting your hard drive, hmm?  Probably not long. 

    It's conceivable that the TC companies could lobby or even pressure governments (by refusing to sell them new computers) into enacting laws that forbid the creation or installation of third-party software, at which point not only would the TC giants erase your computer if you try to use a competitor's product, but the police would come to haul you off to jail too!


    Don't think it could happen?  Don't underestimate the greed of those companies; Microsoft in particular...
      

    patio

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    Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
    « Reply #21 on: February 15, 2009, 07:08:18 AM »
    Do they run Windows in Valhalla ? ?

    " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
    « Reply #22 on: February 15, 2009, 09:09:03 AM »
    A lot of companies are doing the same type of things.

    Take- of all companies- Nintendo.


    the NES contained a CIC lockout chip which required the cart board to always have a particular chip- the design of which was patented by Nintendo and as such any third-party developers not only needed to get permission from Nintendo to use the chip but Nintendo also required that the chip meet certain "standards"... unfortunately the factories who produced chips that met this standard were few, expensive, and took a long time to ship.

    As an example, Tengen, a third party developer, found itself dissatisfied with Nintendo's licensing policies, which restricted the developers ability to have the game available on other platforms. So- for a while Tengen followed Nintendo's licensing terms, but all the while their engineers were working to create their own replica of the CIC lockout chip so that they could release games on their own, in an attempt to thwart the high prices required by the factories Nintendo deemed suitable as well as eliminate the time barrier from order to arrival of the chip shipment.


    Quote
    On December 12, 1988, armed with a knowledge of the NES security system, Atari sued Nintendo for $100 million, accusing it for practicing a monopoly in video games. They rereleased Pac-Man, R.B.I. Baseball, and Gauntlet in new rounded black cartridges, even though licensed copies were still around. The following month in January they officially broke off their agreement with Nintendo and released a string of titles in the Tengen carts. Tengen manufactured the cartridges themselves and wasn't subject to Nintendo's strict guidelines.

    sound familiar?

    Unfortunately they didn't think ahead on that one; Nintendo hit back hard with a countersuit for breach of contract and copyright infringement- claiming tengen copied the security chip (again, this is similar to the OS industry with the old Apple lawsuit Vs. Microsoft, although hardware based). This started a long series of court battles between the two, with Nintendo itself forcing retailers to either remove all Tengen Products or all Nintendo merchandise. Almost every single outlet complied with this "guerilla" tactic, as Nintendo was a big  name for toys/games back then, and not having Nintendo products would almost surely mean much lower profit margins.

    The end result? while court battles were settled, Tengen was mortally wounded financially, dissapeared when Warner Communications merged with Time Inc to form Time-Warner. The new company consolidated the arcade and home divisions under one common name, Time-Warner Interactive, and the Tengen named ceased to exist.

    And what happened to Nintendo and the lockout chip? Nothing. it remained in the NES, there was one in the SNES and also the N64, forcing developers to jump through Nintendos hoops and licensing barriers to develop games for their consoles. Admittedly, this ensured that Nintendos game library was of (generally) high quality, but at the same time does this not strike an interesting parallel with the way Microsoft has been conducting business?
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    evilfantasy

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    Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
    « Reply #23 on: February 15, 2009, 10:56:07 AM »
    Don't let the words "free" and "open source" intoxicate your brain. I've said it many times. Nothing is truly "free."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation

    In March 2006, Weblogs, Inc. founder Jason Calacanis reported a rumor on his blog that Mozilla Corporation gained $72M during the previous year, mainly thanks to the Google search box in the Firefox browser.[5] The rumor was later addressed by Christopher Blizzard, a member of the Mozilla board, who wrote on his blog that "it’s not correct, though not off by an order of magnitude".[6] "In return for setting Google as the default search engine on Firefox, Google pays Mozilla a substantial sum - in 2006 the total amounted to around $57 million, or 85% of the company’s total revenue. The deal was originally going to expire in 2006, but was later extended to 2008 and will now run through 2011."

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
    « Reply #24 on: February 15, 2009, 11:12:55 AM »
    Interesting...
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Geek-9pm


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    Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
    « Reply #25 on: February 15, 2009, 12:05:55 PM »
    Quote
    Don't let the words "free" and "open source" intoxicate your brain. I've said it many times. Nothing is truly "free."

    Hey, maybe Microsoft will give away Windows 7. But it will only work with IE 8 and it always defaults to MSN search.

    Who will accept such a 'free' gift?

    evilfantasy

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    Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
    « Reply #26 on: February 15, 2009, 12:14:04 PM »
    January 30, 2009

    Microsoft releases Live Search add-in for Firefox

    Boo evil MS. They have even gone as far to incorporate it's search engine with the competitions browser. Wait, what...? :P

    Quote
    Microsoft reps call it an illustration of the company's efforts for increasing platform interoperability, but you could also say it's another sign that the company's entirely serious about making headway in the search wars: Ladies and gentlemen, a Live Search browser add-in... for Firefox.

    patio

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    Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
    « Reply #27 on: February 15, 2009, 06:29:24 PM »
    I have absolutely no problem with the Mozilla Foundation making money...
    And i could care less what amount it is.

    They are single-handedly responsible for driving the browser improvements to where they are today...no matter what browser you use.
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      Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
      « Reply #28 on: February 15, 2009, 06:46:32 PM »
      but wait Mozilla has no say in what Microsoft can and cant do with the operating system

      patio

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      Re: Mozilla joins Case against Microsoft
      « Reply #29 on: February 15, 2009, 06:59:17 PM »
      but wait Mozilla has no say in what Microsoft can and cant do with the operating system

      Ever hear of tabbed browsing ? ?
      " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "