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Author Topic: Windows 7 An Improvement?  (Read 9908 times)

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spock

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    Windows 7 An Improvement?
    « on: September 12, 2009, 08:14:21 PM »
      So far, since Windows 98SE I have seen only marginal improvements over each succeeding O.S. Will Windows 7 be a giant leap forward? I doubt it. It may have new skins and bells and whistles, but underneath, it's same-o, same-o.
    "It's always something!"-Gilda Radner

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
    « Reply #1 on: September 12, 2009, 08:50:41 PM »
    does anybody else consider this some sort of flamebait? or perhaps somebody who hasn't yet learned the search function and found the multitude of other threads on this topic?
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Mulreay

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    Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
    « Reply #2 on: September 12, 2009, 09:01:43 PM »
    does anybody else consider this some sort of flamebait? or perhaps somebody who hasn't yet learned the search function and found the multitude of other threads on this topic?

    I agree. Biting my tongue as I type!  ;)

    Geek-9pm


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    Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
    « Reply #3 on: September 12, 2009, 09:13:54 PM »
    Quote
    I agree. Biting my tongue as I type!  Wink
    Me too!

    They say Windows 7 was done whi8le Bill Gates was doing other things. That is one reason I have for using it. Plus the fact that RC was free. For awhile. 8)

    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/get/download.aspx

    If you want to start a fire, say anything about Vista.     ;D

    Aegis



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    Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
    « Reply #4 on: September 13, 2009, 12:38:17 AM »
    Same-o same-o?

    I guess it's the same ol' complaints about Windows...even though, underneath, it's a different operating system then 98SE...


    "For you, a thousand times over." - "The Kite Runner"

    Salmon Trout

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    Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
    « Reply #5 on: September 13, 2009, 05:06:12 AM »
    I found 2000 an enormous improvement over 98SE, and I found XP an improvement over 2000. Not so big, maybe, but still better. The switch from the awful DOS-based 9x series to the NT based 2000 and later was the big improvement.

    spock

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      Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
      « Reply #6 on: September 13, 2009, 08:02:30 AM »
       Hey, I'm not flamebaiting. I've had just as many problems with XP as 98SE.
      I'm talking from personal experience!
      "It's always something!"-Gilda Radner

      soybean



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      Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
      « Reply #7 on: September 13, 2009, 09:03:19 AM »
      Hey, I'm not flamebaiting. I've had just as many problems with XP as 98SE.
      I'm talking from personal experience!
      Well, I find that odd since you declare yourself an Experienced user of Windows in your forum profile. Makes me wonder whether you've put yourself in the right category.  With, perhaps, the exception of Windows Millenium Edition, successive versions of Windows have brought significant improvements in security, stability, and addtional features.  So, frankly, I don't put much stock in your personal experience.

      BC_Programmer


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      Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
      « Reply #8 on: September 13, 2009, 09:06:14 AM »
      yes, especially with the switch to the NT kernel in Consumer-based OS's.
      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

      Mulreay

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      Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
      « Reply #9 on: September 13, 2009, 09:54:53 AM »
      So, frankly, I don't put much stock in your personal experience.

      Completely agree  ;)

      spock

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        Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
        « Reply #10 on: September 17, 2009, 03:17:23 PM »
          I'm not putting Windows down. I'm just saying each succeeding system isn't a quantum leap from the previous.
          Windows 95 was the first wide-spread publicly used system and very unstable from what I hear. I never had the opportunity to use it.
          Windows 98/98SE was a more stable version of 95, not a bad start.
          Windows ME was essentially Windows 95SE with System Restore. Not too bad, either. But a lot of people didn't like it.
          Next came Windows 2000 Pro, my favorite of all the systems so far. It's like a scaled-down XP without all the graphics. I cannot figure out why thay left out System Restore. I guess it was because it was used mostly for businesses.
          Then came Windows XP, purportedly the most stable version so far. A lot of fancy graphics which didn't add to it's usefulness.
          Then came the slower Vista, essentially XP with a lot more eye candy.
          What am I expecting from Win 7?  Essentially Windows Vista with a lot of the bugs removed and a lot more eye candy!
          Richard Sherman of Smart Computing backs me up:
        "Having used it (Win 7) for several months, my feelings remain pretty much the same:
        Win 7 is Vista with some new features, most of the bugs removed, and a few aesthetic nips and tucks. It's nice, but not life altering".
        Mr. Modem, Smart Computing, 10/09 P. 53.
        "It's always something!"-Gilda Radner

        patio

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        Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
        « Reply #11 on: September 17, 2009, 05:20:06 PM »
        So what are your choices ? ?
        You stated you never used 3 of those OS's and i bet you haven't even seen Vista much less Win7 but everything is wrong with the World ? ?

        Sherman is a MS basher from way back and holds absolutely no credibility in my eyes...hasn't for some time...

        However if you choose to drink the kool-aid...
        " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

        computeruler



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        Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
        « Reply #12 on: September 17, 2009, 07:00:23 PM »
        Windows 7 is amazing

        spock

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          Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
          « Reply #13 on: September 18, 2009, 04:15:05 PM »
          (The only systems I haven't tried are Windows 3.1 and 95. Boy, you guys are getting defensive!)
          "It's always something!"-Gilda Radner

          TechGeek



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          Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
          « Reply #14 on: September 18, 2009, 08:19:05 PM »
            So far, since Windows 98SE I have seen only marginal improvements over each succeeding O.S. Will Windows 7 be a giant leap forward? I doubt it. It may have new skins and bells and whistles, but underneath, it's same-o, same-o.

          I think 98 to 2000 and 2000 to XP were great improvements. XP to Vista was great but people complained because it was 'slow' on their slow computers and wasn't compatible. Vista to Windows 7 is just a speed increase with a few extra features.
          I help run my home improvement and home automation forum.

          BC_Programmer


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          Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
          « Reply #15 on: September 18, 2009, 08:45:17 PM »
          Quote
          I've had just as many problems with XP as 98SE.


          The only common barrier is yourself.
          I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

          Salmon Trout

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          Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
          « Reply #16 on: September 19, 2009, 12:11:13 AM »
            I'm not putting Windows down. I'm just saying each succeeding system isn't a quantum leap from the previous.

          Ah, the good old quantum leap. In real physical systems a quantum leap is not necessarily a large change, and can in fact be very insignificant. E.g. see the Bohr model of the hydrogen atom.

          Fed

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            Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
            « Reply #17 on: September 19, 2009, 02:11:44 AM »
            There has been a fair sized leap in the hardware required.

            3.1 used about 25MBs of disk space and ran happily on a 486 & 4MBs of ram.

            BC_Programmer


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            Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
            « Reply #18 on: September 19, 2009, 09:22:23 AM »
            There has been a fair sized leap in the hardware required.

            3.1 used about 25MBs of disk space and ran happily on a 486 & 4MBs of ram.

            that's a lie! It ran fine on my 80386!

            Ahh, that was a solid machine. nice fancy black tower... some kind of server model, ran at 40mhz... only had a 50MB HD though.
            I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

            spock

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              Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
              « Reply #19 on: September 20, 2009, 07:16:50 PM »
                  Well, I hope you're right about Windows 7. As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on that one. I do plan to try it, but I'm not going to get my hopes up too high. I do think that Vista is Windows ME redux.
              "It's always something!"-Gilda Radner

              Aegis



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              Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
              « Reply #20 on: September 20, 2009, 08:47:36 PM »
              Quote
              I do think that Vista is Windows ME redux.

              I think there's more to Vista than just cosmetics.


              "For you, a thousand times over." - "The Kite Runner"

              Geek-9pm


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              Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
              « Reply #21 on: September 20, 2009, 09:23:36 PM »
              So now I will confess the real reson I am going to Windows 7.  ;)
              I was learning NT 4 and MS dropped it. Windows 2000 was the thing.  :o
              So I bought the 2000 books and starting again trying to become a MCSE and then they came out with XP.  ::)
              So I bought some more books and tried fro an lesser certification.
              Then cam out Vista. And I bought just one new book
              I have not yet finished that book.  :-[

              So I am giving up on ever learning vista.  >:(
              I am going for windows 7 and maybe I will understand some of it before it becomes replaced by something.
              And this time I will not try to learn it from a book.  8)

              Boozu



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              Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
              « Reply #22 on: September 20, 2009, 09:31:25 PM »
              I'm using win7 RC as my main OS until the full release later this year. I like it but I am going to rebuild my XP system so I can do things on that too.

              I think the first OS I used was 95 on my dad's PC. I once tried a mac, but I try and block that part of my life out. The nice thingabout win7 is that the learning curve is not to steep.
              Don't worry about it.  If it's not good at stock, then it's not good.


              Aegis



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              Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
              « Reply #23 on: September 20, 2009, 09:33:51 PM »
              Quote
              I once tried a mac, but I try and block that part of my life out.

              What's with all the Mac bashing?

              The beauty of most graphical user interfaces is that the all have a lot in common.


              "For you, a thousand times over." - "The Kite Runner"

              Boozu



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              Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
              « Reply #24 on: September 20, 2009, 09:53:00 PM »
              Quote
              The beauty of most graphical user interfaces is that the all have a lot in common.
              What? I did not get that.
              Quote
              What's with all the Mac bashing?
              It was just a joke, but I don't like macs.
              Don't worry about it.  If it's not good at stock, then it's not good.


              Aegis



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              Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
              « Reply #25 on: September 20, 2009, 11:54:24 PM »
              I haven't worked on a lot of Macs, but I've worked on PC's, Macs, and Sun SPARCS which have all had GUI's.  Yes, things are a little different on each, but it's been no big deal.


              "For you, a thousand times over." - "The Kite Runner"

              Boozu



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              Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
              « Reply #26 on: September 21, 2009, 12:04:17 AM »
              I did not see any improvement wile using the mac.

              Plus I like playing games. Nuf said.
              Don't worry about it.  If it's not good at stock, then it's not good.


              spock

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                Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
                « Reply #27 on: September 22, 2009, 07:04:31 AM »
                When I said I had just as many problems (or more) with Windows XP as 98SE, everybody got hot and huffy. I'm just speaking from personal experience. I 've lost count how many times I've had to reload XP. "Oh, you must have done something to screw up the system!". Why would I do that? If I knew something would screw up the system,  do you think I would do it? The whole time I had 98SE, I might have had to reload it a couple of times. Some times it was a virus that got past my anti-virus, other times my boot file went missing (NTDLR). Never had this problem with 98SE, except one time when I got infected with the KLEZ virus.
                   Microsoft isn't bad, but it's far from perfect!
                "It's always something!"-Gilda Radner

                Aegis



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                Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
                « Reply #28 on: September 22, 2009, 10:26:43 AM »
                Quote
                The beauty of most graphical user interfaces is that the all have a lot in common.

                As I stated, I've used PC's, Linux boxes, UNIX systems, and Sun SPARCS.  Due to commonalities in the graphical user interface concepts, they've all been easy to use.  (I'm not saying I logged on and was an instant power user.  I'm stating that I have been able to logon to a variety of systems, and been able to work as needed.


                "For you, a thousand times over." - "The Kite Runner"

                BC_Programmer


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                Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
                « Reply #29 on: September 22, 2009, 11:23:45 AM »
                As I stated, I've used PC's, Linux boxes, UNIX systems, and Sun SPARCS.  Due to commonalities in the graphical user interface concepts, they've all been easy to use.  (I'm not saying I logged on and was an instant power user.  I'm stating that I have been able to logon to a variety of systems, and been able to work as needed.

                Exactly- I believe the main issues people have with the different UI's is they try to take the paradigms from one UI and apply them in another- that is, they treat, say, Ubuntu, or the Mac OS, the same as they would windows; and then, when they fail, they blame the Operating System GUI.

                A Prime example, would be my experience with the Mac OS, which was AGES ago (OS 8.6), I wasn't super-familiar with windows, either. anyway; back then a Window had a Square box in the upper left, which closed the window, and on the right a "restore" button that maximized it, and a "roller-upper" thingy that  shrank the window to a title bar.

                For my first uses, I mentally translated the Square button to be the same as the windows "X" button- that is, it closed the window. However, I later discovered that the analogy ended there- while it closed the window, it did not close the application, as evidenced by the task-switcher; the applications were still running. At first I even assumed that closing the program was impossible, however, it became clear that I could switch to the application, and the system menu would change accordingly, allowing me to select the proper command to exit.

                Once I figured that out things went a lot smoother... (namely because I didn't have 20 or so instances of Internet Explorer)

                These same sort of nuances are also found (more subtle, of course) in succeeding versions of Windows.

                Take the switch from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95. Basically, the focus was shifted from Windows 3.1, which was more or less application centric (you start the program, and use the Open command from there to open the file) to Document-centric, where you started a document, and windows started the proper application with that document- the idea was, that you no longer needed to know to start, say, "Excel" to open an excel spreadsheet. Of course, you could still start the application and then open it, too.

                Additionally, Windows 95 overhauled the user-interface- Windows 3.1, was for the most part "flat" in appearance; while 3-D controls and libraries were available the core Windows controls still drew in monochrome. Windows 95 rewrote these default drawing procedures to draw controls and windows with 3d borders and shading, in a fashion similar to that exercised by the libraries from windows 3.1. It also moved the Various window control buttons. Windows 3.1 featured three buttons in it's windows- the Control Menu Button (which probably had the strangest icon of all) the Minimize, and maximize buttons. 95 created a new icon- the close button, which never existed previously (unless you count right-clicking the control menu) placing it on the right, where, in windows 3.1, the maximize button lived. The control button became a control icon, which would display the newer smallicons that windows 95 programs would have (or, if running a 3.1 application, a shrunken version of the 32-pixel icon). this icon retained the functionality of the old control button, and did away with the strange toaster-like icon that really didn't make sense. (What was it! I beg of you!!!?). At the same time, however, it introduced "migration issues" for longtime 3.1 users, who would automatically click the right-most button for maximize. In 95, such action would result in closing the window... this was the idea behind separating the icon by a few pixels from the other two icons, which usually made people pause before clicking it. While not quite a paradigm shift in quite as many ways as other operating systems, it still meant that users had to change their behaviour.

                In general, it is this "change of behaviour" requirement that causes people to become frustrated with a new Operating System, or a different Operating System then what they are used to. In fact, it is quite personality specific how receptive people will be to a UI redesign; the opposition is essentially that "the user will decide when to change" unfortunately, given the oppurtunity, they never will. You can proclaim that a certain feature will be removed, and replaced, and they should learn the new method... but they will still use the old method, and will still complain just as loudly when the feature is removed, and still clueless about it's replacement...

                I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                neelchauhan

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                Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
                « Reply #30 on: September 23, 2009, 02:01:55 PM »
                From XP to Vista is a bigger leap forward than Vista to 7.

                TechGeek



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                Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
                « Reply #31 on: September 23, 2009, 09:00:50 PM »
                Vista to 7 is a big leap if you look at performance.
                I help run my home improvement and home automation forum.

                neelchauhan

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                Re: Windows 7 An Improvement?
                « Reply #32 on: September 24, 2009, 02:04:39 PM »
                Vista to 7 is a big leap if you look at performance.
                I know