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Author Topic: Easiest Language to Learn?  (Read 30926 times)

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BatchFileCommand



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    Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
    « Reply #30 on: October 13, 2009, 04:24:16 PM »
    Quote
    how one creates instances of objects in Python.

    Code: [Select]
    obj = SomeMethod()

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    macdad-



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      Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
      « Reply #31 on: October 13, 2009, 04:34:49 PM »
      In the end, you can say all you want about each language but it just boils down to eventually Personal Choice and what your going to program.
      If you dont know DOS, you dont know Windows...

      Thats why Bill Gates created the Windows NT Family.

      Geek-9pm


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      Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
      « Reply #32 on: October 13, 2009, 06:39:42 PM »
      Quote
      eventually Personal Choice and what your going to program.
      Right!

      If you are not yet familiar with programming and you want a traditional approach, your best bet is Pascal. After that Java.

      gh0std0g74



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        Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
        « Reply #33 on: October 13, 2009, 06:51:53 PM »
        If you are not yet familiar with programming and you want a traditional approach, your best bet is Pascal. After that Java.
        that's boils down to the so called "personal choice" as well... As a "personal choice", i won't even bother with Pascal or Java. Python is easy enough for the beginner to be used to learn programming.

        Geek-9pm


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        Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
        « Reply #34 on: October 13, 2009, 07:06:50 PM »
        Quote
        asy enough for the beginner
        How long does he want to be a beginner?

        Pascal was written by an individual who spend more time teaching that any of use here. His idea was to make a language not powerfully and easy, but structured and explicit. Pascal is an ideal teaching language. Too many people learn how to code but can not solve a real problem or explain it to someone else.

        Have you noticed many people come here with a bit of code and can not tell use what their objective is?


        gh0std0g74



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          Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
          « Reply #35 on: October 13, 2009, 07:43:58 PM »
          How long does he want to be a beginner?
          what's your point? it doesn't matter right?

          Quote
          Pascal was written by an individual who spend more time teaching that any of use here. His idea was to make a language not powerfully and easy, but structured and explicit. Pascal is an ideal teaching language. Too many people learn how to code but can not solve a real problem or explain it to someone else.
          So can the other languages. What's important is they must encompass and provide the necessary concepts in programming. What are the lessons in programming which can be learnt in Pascal that one cannot learn in other languages? show me a few examples.

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          Have you noticed many people come here with a bit of code and can not tell use what their objective is?
          like who?

          BC_Programmer


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          Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
          « Reply #36 on: October 13, 2009, 08:00:14 PM »
          Geek-9pm...

          what about Delphi? I've heard it's quite similar to pascal, but adds more modern principles, like, being able to store strings longer then 255 characters. :P

          Pascal was a teaching language- but that's it- an academic exercise language, as you've stated. It's great and was used a lot for teaching programming, because it enforces a few things syntactically that would normally need to be enforced by the programmer, such as the structured sectioned off portions of code for declaration of variables, constants, interfaces, and finally the implementation.


          Delphi... well I've never actually fired up my copy of Delphi very often. It is however the "next iteration" of Pascal- that is, it is very similar to Pascal, but adds better dealings with objects.

          Java- Java is and has been used, and put on a pedestal, because of it's "superior" implementation of OOP. The main strengths being it's platform independence.

          The last time I used Java, I created a COM component with J++; something I could use from Visual Basic, so I could use Visual Basic to "unit test" the component. Also, I found that the COM extensions added to the Microsoft JVM included the ability to instantiate any Java accessible object- for example, CreateObject("java.lang.String") would actually work.

          Every once in a while I'll write a little C++ DLL for something. Being able to access DLL's from many other languages as well as leveraging COM and .NET components from a number of languages (any scripting language I've encountered can create ActiveX objects somehow, when run on a Windows machine), of course for obvious reasons Scripts can't usually access a DLL function directly (obvious reasons being that, they removed file access from the VBScript language for a reason). Some might say, "but... what about the FSO?" Ahh, yes, you can access files, open, save, etc with the FSO from VBScript, JScript, and other languages- but the component itself is not marked safe for scripting and therefore untrusted scripts (usually those implemented on a web-site) cannot use it. the problem though- is while almost every other language that is even usable on Win32 can interoperate (Scripting languages get this free with the Scripting Host, in fact), Java cannot, as far as I can tell. (my recent attempts to research this failed, though I may try again now that my PC can actually run NetBeans)



          One more thing: something that I've found nearly indispensable to have for nearly any language- an IDE of some sort. Many languages "come with" one for free- that is- paid ones, such as Visual Studio; .NET etc. Scripting languages, by definition, don't come with one in the standard package but they all come with a free IDE, or one can be found (such as the aforementioned IDLE for python,NetBeans for Java, Microsoft Script Editor works for any WSH enabled language, too)- sometimes "better" IDE's can be found at a price, but the free ones are usually quite powerful.

          So that brings us not to a choice of Language necessarily, but also a choice of IDE.

          I originally thought that the old "turbo Pascal" was the last iteration of any strictly pascal IDE (that is, not Delphi) but a quick google reveals that Pascal has a free compiler as well as a free IDE (http://www.bloodshed.net/devpascal.html).

          Visual Basic 6... well, It's IDE kind of sucks, and because of it's strict coupling there haven't yet been any replacements developed as of yet. Most of the "suckiness" comes simply because it's designed for windows 9x/NT4, so it doesn't support Luna/Aero (it can be forced to with a manifest, though, just like the EXEs it creates). If I was getting started with programming today, I probably wouldn't bother with VB6 at all, except perhaps as a history lesson.

          .NET: each .NET language (including IronPython) has a great IDE with a lot of features. but the .NET environment suffers from one fatal flaw- it's slow. It takes over 4 seconds on my quad core to even show the splash screen, and another 6 after that. Additionally it suffers from constant "lag" in whatever you are doing, and it has personally caused me to lose my train of thought multiple times. Maybe this is because I don't use it often, so it isn't "registered" as something SuperFetch should retrieve, so comparitively it takes longer- I don't know.

          More to the point, while the "express" versions of the .NET languages are free, you are not able to create commercial applications with them- you'd need to purchase the far more expensive paid versions of Visual Studio. Alternative IDEs do exist for .NET, namely SharpDevelop, which are possibly faster.

          To be fair however, Java... or more precisely, NetBeans, suffers from similar slowness; with a similar amount of power. Again, this is probably due (personally) to it simply not being cached by my OS like my oft used programs.

          Scripting languages almost ALL have at least one IDE to use with them; Python has IDLE (and probably more)m Perl has RegExBuddy (HAHAHA, just kidding, I should say something like Open Perl IDE (http://open-perl-ide.sourceforge.net/). the best thing? if you don't like the IDE, you can choose another, and if you don't like to use an IDE at all, you can always just use notepad and the command line interpreter. Also, Notepad++ has the ability to syntax colour and fold code blocks for a LOT of programming languages, and even allows the addition of a command-line to run each script type. The choices of how to develop with a script language are endless. AND- because, unlike, say, C/C++, you don't have to decide on one of a number of incompatible compilers, and rather are using the same, completely interpreter regardless of the IDE you choose, code you develop in one IDE will work with another (heh, try that with say, Borland C and Microsoft C)

          Also: almost every scripting language can easily be used- on the server-side to generate page responses, used either through the scripting host on IIS or via easily obtained plugins for apache.
          I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

          BatchFileCommand



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            Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
            « Reply #37 on: October 13, 2009, 08:30:12 PM »
            That's a lot of typing for one post, I didn't see the point though. Python is not necessarily a beginners language, it can get very advanced, and you can do many things with it. However though, because many beginners start with Python doesn't necessarily mean it's a beginners language.
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            BC_Programmer


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            Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
            « Reply #38 on: October 13, 2009, 08:48:55 PM »
            That's a lot of typing for one post, I didn't see the point though. Python is not necessarily a beginners language, it can get very advanced, and you can do many things with it. However though, because many beginners start with Python doesn't necessarily mean it's a beginners language.

            Nobody said that.
            I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

            Geek-9pm


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            Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
            « Reply #39 on: October 13, 2009, 08:55:53 PM »
            BC_Programmer,

            You speak well. Yes, it is an academic issue. When you are in an English class thaey don't want you to use slang, unless they ask for it.

            Te OOP idea is to help people think in structure. You can program without it.  But if you work with other people you better OOP.

            There are only a few cases where speed of execution is the big thing. Most modern programming has complexity that requires good habits. clear documentation and easy maintenance.

            One thing I did like about Borland TP was the ability to sneak in a bit of inline machine code. 

            Speaking of them...
            http://www.borland.com/
            Look how much they stress application and not the details of the tools they have. When if comes down to it, if you want a job in the IT industry you have to be able to do piratical things. Which tool you use is less important.

            Sometime s manager is very happy with a product that  the programmer thinks of as only a prototype in a script. So you do it in a script and tell him you need to do more work on it to speed it up.  When he gives the green light, you look for a better tool.

            peaking of scripts,  Here is one kid who wants to lear TclTk
            http://www.episteme.com/TclTk/
            But he has broken links.
            You can do GUI,  sort of, in TclTk. Here is a good link:
            http://www.tcl.tk/


            BatchFileCommand



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              Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
              « Reply #40 on: October 14, 2009, 04:24:48 PM »
              Quote from: BatchFileCommand
              That's a lot of typing for one post, I didn't see the point though. Python is not necessarily a beginners language, it can get very advanced, and you can do many things with it. However though, because many beginners start with Python doesn't necessarily mean it's a beginners language.

              Quote from: BC_Programmer
              Nobody said that.

              Quote from:  gh0std0g74
              Python is easy enough for the beginner
              Quote from: Geek-9pm
              How long does he want to be a beginner?

               ::)


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              macdad-



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                Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
                « Reply #41 on: October 14, 2009, 05:44:44 PM »
                Come on guys, we're arguing over programming languages  :P

                This kind of question that Redcaa asked is only an 'Opinion question'.
                If you dont know DOS, you dont know Windows...

                Thats why Bill Gates created the Windows NT Family.

                Geek-9pm


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                Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
                « Reply #42 on: October 14, 2009, 10:59:40 PM »
                Come on guys, we're arguing over programming languages  :P

                This kind of question that Redcaa asked is only an 'Opinion question'.

                Yeah. too much attention to the language. We should have asked does he want to be a programmer or just want to know which is the easy way to do something.

                Do a search on  "Programming" in your favorite book store and find the the current topics are no longer about which language but about what do you want  to do. Presentations? Web  pages? Management?
                Presently anything made by Adobe dominates.

                BC_Programmer


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                Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
                « Reply #43 on: October 14, 2009, 11:01:46 PM »
                Presently anything made by Adobe dominates.

                Heh


                That's what they used to say about Adobe Type Manager...  :P
                I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                EEVIAC

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                Re: Easiest Language to Learn?
                « Reply #44 on: October 15, 2009, 02:20:05 AM »
                I would start with Basic to understand how the pieces of the puzzle of programming work, then dive into something more complicated after creating a programming knowledge foundation to build from and relate to other languages.

                Would Basic be easier to learn as a beginner, than C++?  I don't know any languages... I've just got a C++ book that I haven't gotten into just yet...