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Author Topic: Mininova has gone legal!  (Read 15580 times)

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computeruler



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Re: Mininova has gone legal!
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2009, 04:52:39 PM »
im so going to get flamed for that

BC_Programmer


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Re: Mininova has gone legal!
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2009, 05:19:14 PM »
Let's say you can't afford it though. Then you don't donate. Same with music, games and software. If you can't afford it. Download it.


Does this extend to books, bicycles, and motorcycles?


The main defense used is that it costs nobody anything to reproduce- just copy some files, right? whereas with something like a book, or a motorcycle, or whatever, it would cost more to reproduce the same product- labour costs, parts, etc.

What people forget is that there needs to be something to reproduce to begin with. If the developers didn't write/compile the first copy, then nobody would be able to make these "free" copies.

that initial copy costs a LOT in developer time, company resources, etc- the costs involved, and the legal costs as well (any good software company needs a legal department; and no, it's not just for what many people suspect it is- which is usually the ones looking for people infringing copyrights made by the company- the sole purpose is to make sure the company itself doesn't get into legal hot water BEFORE it publishes something that would infringe on an existing copyright.

These costs aren't free. And of course they want to make a profit over top of that, too. Now, this is generally calculated into the unit price; many say the pricing of windows isn't fair- and really, that's something I cannot disagree with. For a component that has become so critical to the operation of what is typically regarded as the standard PC (running windows, that is) it seems silly to give it such a high price point. However, Considering the development time, the huge staff base, the support staff, etc easily number into the millions- there is probably only 10 times more copies of windows sold then there are staff; consider that these staff don't simply "go away", either- that is, while a customer buying windows is a one-time deal, the staff generally stays, and staff expect to be paid.

Of course windows is not the only product that MS sells- and their other products aren't exactly priced much less, nor do I think that MS needs to charge the relatively exorbitant prices for almost all of their products in order to stay afloat. All software companies incur these costs.

The problem is simply this: the content Software companies sell is too easily reproduced. With physical objects, like, say, motorcycles, there is a "sweet spot" of best profit for almost any product. price it too low, and they might sell more product but make a smaller profit- price it too high, and fewer people buy it; It's basic economics, really- the company needs to add on the right amount of "profit" cost to their base product price (the cost of creating the product) to maximize their revenue.

With Software, theses basic premises of economics/marketing no longer apply- it's almost as if physics laws no longer applied as far as marketing drones are concerned; the entire strategy needs to be changed. However, companies are still going with the same strategy. However, now, it's not trying to draw the most revenue as much as it is trying to price it to try to reduce the number of people resorting to pirating- this requires fairly intimate knowledge of the demographic of the target market, their incomes, etc; this type of information is only really something the companies can guess at first. Additionally, it doesn't seem to matter how cheap they can price it- they could price it at half the development cost to break even, and people would still pirate it. It's not a matter of "they cannot afford it" but rather one of "I'd rather not pay for it" which is in fact the very mindset that anybody who says "If you can't afford it, download it" in this case afford doesn't refer to monetary assets as much as it does to getting off your lazy arse and buying the *censored* thing for the reasonable price it is offered for- music albums are like 10-20 dollars; and it sounds a *censored* of a lot better then the 128kbps mp3's you downloaded the album in for free, too.

On top of this, people complain about the legitimacy checks that many products use; and windows is not the only one that does this. Why do none of the people who constantly try to crack these programs, which are often only 10 ot 20 freaking dollars, actually think, hmm, this might be worth it to buy.

the *censored* developers spent time working on a Anti-piracy component because people are too *censored* lazy to simply buy the bloody program. "It's not worth 10-20 bucks" they say. Well, go buy another program then. Or better yet- use a freeware alternative. there are freeware alternatives for everything.

Besides- the entire "I cannot afford it" argument kind of falls apart after they tell you how many ipods they got for christmas, their PC specs and so forth. "yeah, I got a Super ultra quad core and 64Terabytes of Ram and a mega uber Nvidia card but I hadz to pirate windowz cuz I couldn'tz afford it" yeah right, you bloody financially challenged goofball, try to blame somebody else for forgetting to put the cost of software on your build list. Oh! But software isn't REAL! It's virtual! Of course that makes them feel better.

Games are a special issue as well- Games are entertainment, just like movies. People assume that because they are "for fun" that they should be "for free" but while they are a product designed for entertainment they also entail the use of real work to create- things like voice actors, actors, artists, 3d modelling, level designers, programmers of course, sound editors etc. your average game costs more to produce then some other types of applications, simply because of the number of different tasks that need to be done. But people still insist on pirating them- they pirate the game, play it, and post about how great the game was and they cannot wait for the sequel. Why do they expect a sequel? What if the company goes out of business because they couldn't make a proper profit margin (of course this is usually not an issue for the "big name" type of game companies, like ID software and so forth, but it quickly becomes an issue with 1-3 man developer shops that price their product pretty close to simply breaking even). Of course, these people won't feel bad, because the original sucked anyway. (or so they will say).


Oh, I might add that this is simply against people trying to JUSTIFY pirating software.  I've done it myself *GASP* but I don't try to pull off some story about how it was my grandmother's dying wish that I beat quake on nightmare skill or something.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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    Re: Mininova has gone legal!
    « Reply #32 on: December 01, 2009, 05:21:46 PM »
    Yea yea, okay if you compressed that all into one paragraph I would read it, but I really don't feel like reading that much sorry.

    I know what youre trying to say but seriously... who cares, stuff is going to be copied no matter what anyone does so either go with it or don't. Your choice.

    computeruler



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    Re: Mininova has gone legal!
    « Reply #33 on: December 01, 2009, 05:22:00 PM »
    i couldnt afford windows, look at my computer...
    and also a lot of the time the music you download is 320kbps

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Mininova has gone legal!
    « Reply #34 on: December 01, 2009, 05:22:54 PM »
    I know what youre trying to say but seriously... who cares, people are going to be murdered no matter what anyone does so either go with it or don't. Your choice.

    FTFY
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    computeruler



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    Re: Mininova has gone legal!
    « Reply #35 on: December 01, 2009, 05:28:47 PM »
     :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

    JJ 3000



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    Re: Mininova has gone legal!
    « Reply #36 on: December 01, 2009, 10:14:09 PM »
    Also called "Deep Net"

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/nov/26/dark-side-internet-freenet


    That was a good read. I was aware of Tor but I'd never heard of freenet. I might have to look into it.

    By the way, did you read Ian Clarke's response to that article?
    http://blog.locut.us/main/2009/11/25/the-guardian-writes-about-freenet.html
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      Re: Mininova has gone legal!
      « Reply #37 on: December 02, 2009, 07:24:20 AM »
      FTFY

      That works too. It's the same with anything...

      Zylstra

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      Re: Mininova has gone legal!
      « Reply #38 on: December 02, 2009, 11:49:09 AM »
      I can't afford Windows -- I use Linux
      I can't afford Office -- I use Google Docs and OpenOffice
      I can't afford Photoshop -- I use The GIMP
      I can't afford to buy movies -- I watch movies in the public domain (Go 1950's film noir!) 
      I can't afford many games -- I buy a game I really want, and find other open source ones to play instead

      If someone chooses to charge money for something they (or a group) created, let them do so. By choosing to take it without paying or getting their permission, you enter your own demise. Do something even better, stop buying things, stop downloading things illegally, and just start getting free stuff.

      The $500 "edited in mums basement" film can be better than the $12,000,000 film produced in Hollywood; it is all a matter of what is in the plot.

      The effort that goes into building a full game costs a lot. The programmers get paid, licensing fees get paid, the programs to make the programs are paid for... sure, maybe they could be cheaper, and maybe you are just one more person taking from them, but if everyone on earth just decided to "take" that game, you won't see a second version out of that game unless the company decides to release their code to the open source community.

      And the reality of it is this: The way we are going, everyone is going to take the game.

      I am just shedding light on one more perspective. I myself am guilty of "self renting" (downloading, playing for a few days, uninstalling until I can afford it) games, and downloading music (since there is no way to get around RIAA fees right now).

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      Re: Mininova has gone legal!
      « Reply #39 on: December 02, 2009, 11:58:07 AM »
      The problem with "absolutist" type moral judgements, those which start "if everybody did x" are that in the real world not everybody does (or will do) x. Everybody has their limits on what they feel comfortable doing, and different people set that limit in a different place.


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        Re: Mininova has gone legal!
        « Reply #40 on: December 02, 2009, 04:13:23 PM »
        I understand that there are different point of views, I was just expressing mine-maybe a little forcibly, but no harm meant. It's a controversial topic and like Salmon Trout said
        Quote
        Everybody has their limits on what they feel comfortable doing.

        It also depends on your view of civil disobedience. Henry David Thoreau's essay called on "Civil Disobedience" was based the idea that you should disobey any laws you consider "unjust", but suffer the consequences.

        I think most people agree with that, except the fact that you must suffer the consequences right?

        rthompson80819



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        Re: Mininova has gone legal!
        « Reply #41 on: December 02, 2009, 05:43:08 PM »
        I have always found it odd that someone who thinks it is immoral to go into a Wal-mart and shoplift a CD thinks it's OK to download pirated music on-line (yes I've done it myself).  But most of my music I either ripped from Cd's or bought on-line.

        That said, most music, movies and software are grossly overpriced.  That has resulted in a lot of musicians, actors and movie producers becoming multimillionaires and even billionaires.  If you object to that just don't buy music or go to movies.

        Even so, stealing is stealing.  It's not civil disobedience.

        patio

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        Re: Mininova has gone legal!
        « Reply #42 on: December 02, 2009, 06:12:22 PM »
        I wonder what those do when they have to eat ? ?

        Open Source gardens in their back yard with Range Free- chickens and livestock ? ?

        I think not...
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        Re: Mininova has gone legal!
        « Reply #43 on: December 02, 2009, 06:21:26 PM »
        Does this extend to books, bicycles, and motorcycles?
        Well you can always get eBooks...but the issue stands. Pirating is stealing.
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        Re: Mininova has gone legal!
        « Reply #44 on: December 03, 2009, 12:20:13 AM »
        I don't think it's particularly "immoral" to shoplift a CD from Wal-Mart, and I would not think very badly of someone who did it occasionally, but I personally have never done anything like that, and probably never will. The reason is that I might get caught. The chance might be small, but I don't feel it's worth taking.