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Author Topic: What's wrong with Vista?  (Read 19161 times)

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Broni


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Re: What's wrong with Vista?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2009, 02:31:52 PM »
ME was totally screwed up attempt to make Win 98 better, like it was something wrong with 98....

killerb255



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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #16 on: December 30, 2009, 03:06:58 PM »
    It's not any one thing in particular that gave Vista a bad rep.  It's a combination of things creating domino effects...

    Generally, some of the issues were:

    1) Its original code base, which got scrapped and rewritten with Server 2003 as its basis after the whole Blaster worm fiasco, which lead to:

    2) Its development delays, partially due to having to work on XP SP2 post haste, which lead to:

    3) Promised features being omitted (i.e.: Indigo, Avalon, etc.)

    4) Developers dragging their feet on Vista-compatible drivers and software (particularly because many of them followed standards that should have never been followed in the first place like having their stuff work only when running the machine as an administrator).

    5) The whole "Vista Capable" fiasco orchestrated between Microsoft and Intel.  Particularly, many of Intel's onboard graphics adapters didn't support Aero at the time. 

    6) In general, average PC hardware not ready for Vista at the time.  This was before 2 GB of RAM became super-cheap.  There were Vista Home Basic machines running 512 MB of RAM (my cousin had one), which completely drag their rears trying to anything.  This lead to...

    7) "Why pay more for less?  XP runs just fine on my current hardware!"  XP was not only the official successor to 2000, but was the unofficial successor to Windows 98 and Me.  XP is an NT-based OS for both consumers and businesses.  Despite any negativity toward XP back then, it had a lot of obvious benefits to consumers.  Businesses, OTOH, were not so quick to go to XP from 2000, as they had the same complaint mentioned below that applies to Vista:

    8) Vista Gold/SP0/RTM's bloat.  Considering that Windows 7 can run on a netbook and Vista struggles in that department, it seems that there wasn't much in the way of code optimization in Vista.  Perhaps the 11th hour rush post-code scrap had something to do with that?  Perhaps Microsoft thought that people would throw hardware at the problem instead of sticking with XP?

    I used to tell people not to run Vista on anything less than 2 GB of RAM.  Granted SP2 can run on 1 GB of RAM passably, it shouldn't have taken that long to clean up the bloat. 

    Remember slow file copying in Vista?  That wasn't fixed until SP1. 

    9) Too much change too fast (i.e.: User Account Control).  People hate change for the most part.  People despise change "just for the sake of change."  That's what Vista presented itself as.  Was Vista fulfilling a perceived need that XP was not?  In general, it did (widespread 64-bit adoption, better security model), but people didn't see it that way. 

    10) Removal of previous features with a) little justification for doing so and b) no solid replacement (i.e.: NetMeeting, HyperTerminal, NTBACKUP, etc.).  NetMeeting was replaced with Windows Meeting Space, but the option to enable Remote Desktop Sharing to allow the person on the other end to see what the remote controller is doing was removed.  HyperTerminal was removed with no replacement.  NTBACKUP was replaced with the Windows Backup in Vista, which is not as flexible...

    11) Far more rapid spread of information in the late 00s than the early 00s.  Naysayers are louder than ever, and they're being heard whether they should be or not.  This leads to:

    12) Misunderstanding of Vista features.  Superfetch is probably the biggest example of this.  Some say it slows down computers with less RAM.  Some say it slows down computers in general.  This may be because we're all trained to think that seeing all our RAM gobbled up is abnormal when, in reality, it's actually caching files that it thinks we access the most so they can be accessed faster.  However, one thing I've noticed is that it does slow down startup/logon during the caching (which is why Windows 7 delays the caching by about 5-6 minutes).  Perhaps this is why Microsoft defaulted the Start Menu power button to "Sleep"?

    Quote from: talontromper
    Part of the problem is most people don't generally deal with computer problems. So for most they think that close enough is good enough.

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #17 on: December 30, 2009, 03:15:42 PM »
    Quote
    Its original code base, which got scrapped and rewritten with Server 2003


    Windows Vista's codebase was never scrapped and rewritten. some portions of the kernel were, but that was far less then 20%.

    (IF it was a totally rewritten codebase, I wonder why they rewrote the exact same WMF rendering bug that's been there since win95?)

    Quote
    Considering that Windows 7 can run on a netbook and Vista struggles in that department, it seems that there wasn't much in the way of code optimization in Vista.  Perhaps the 11th hour rush post-code scrap had something to do with that?  Perhaps Microsoft thought that people would throw hardware at the problem instead of sticking with XP?

    Actually, the main reason Post RTM Vista and windows 7 run better on netbooks are simply better default options and better detection of low-end hardware to enable those options.

    Netmeeting was probably removed because so many viruses/malware take advantage of the default service configuration on XP to use it; also, most people, well, never use it.


    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Quantos



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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #18 on: December 30, 2009, 04:26:11 PM »
    ME was totally screwed up attempt to make Win 98 better, like it was something wrong with 98....
    I can only attribute ME with MS Bob and blame both on that bad MS innovation, it was similar to 'casual Friday'.  I think they called it 'drunken Monday'...
    Evil is an exact science.

    Broni


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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #19 on: December 30, 2009, 04:30:12 PM »
    MS has a long history of fixing things, which were not broken, removing features, which most people will miss and adding features, which nobody wants.

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #20 on: December 30, 2009, 05:17:21 PM »
    well, consider it this way: when they were developing earlier versions of Excel (<5) they figured everybody used excel for "what if" tests; like, "What if I made this much less a month" or "what if my dog needed more expensive special food" and see how it would reflect on the budget.

    Turns out, people were simply storing LISTS in Excel, and not really performing what if tests at all; the Excel team, armed with this knowledge, (after performing some real world usability tests, outside the lab) added the Fill-Down and Fill Left commands, and sort and other features that help manage lists. It was simply a case of expecting people to use it for what it was designed for. Heck, even today people keep things in Excel that really should go in a database.

    It's kind of like the Clock; a lot of the time, people would use it as a calendar, to see, for example, what day the 24 falls on or whatever. What people didn't realize, is changing ANYTHING in the dialog from double-clicking the clock in the tasbar resulting in a change of the system time. This caused problems sometimes for things like alarms and alerts. MS discovered that people were doing it "the wrong way" and made it the "right way" by making it show a clock that would serve as a calendar that would not change the system time/date.

    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    patio

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #21 on: December 30, 2009, 05:56:11 PM »
    The only thing i miss lately is hardware profiles...a handy feature.
    " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

    cintari

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #22 on: January 14, 2010, 07:33:47 PM »
    I was a naysayer myself until I tried it, too. At least I knew that many of my conceptions were preconceived.

    Anyway, it's funny how when you point out s omething like how the new OS is always said to suck, that they say "NO! this time it's DIFFERENT!" and then you change what they say to use windows 3.1 and windows 95 instead of XP and Vista, and suddenly you have a quote directly out of a PC magazine from 94/95.

    Then...when did XP start being considered as a good OS. I never heard half as much about the problems with XP than those of Vista. Besides, if vista is the fantastic, user-friendly OS that microsoft has  made it out to be, why release windows 7 so soon after it? However, I think I was about 9 or 10 the first time I used a pc with XP so I can't say I know half as much about how windows xp was viewed upon released than some of the computer guru's here.

    Broni


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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #23 on: January 14, 2010, 07:45:57 PM »
    Quote
    why release windows 7 so soon after it?
    Says who?


    cintari

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #24 on: January 25, 2010, 06:44:48 AM »
    touche

    Broni


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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #25 on: January 25, 2010, 09:42:57 AM »
    Huh?

    cintari

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #27 on: January 27, 2010, 01:25:32 PM »
    Huh?
    Quote
    # In Egyptian mythology, Huh (also Heh, Hah, Hauh, Huah, Hahuh) was the deification of eternity in the Ogdoad, his name itself meaning endlessness. As a concept, he was androgynous, his female form being known as Hauhet, which is simply the feminine form of his name.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huh_(god)



    patio

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    Re: What's wrong with Vista?
    « Reply #28 on: January 27, 2010, 02:30:09 PM »
    Hmmmm....
    " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

    wowsrc



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      Re: What's wrong with Vista?
      « Reply #29 on: February 01, 2010, 06:30:25 AM »
      Hmmmm....
      Hmm
      Marine Medium Helicopter Training Squadron 164 (HMM(T)-164), is a United States Marine Corps Fleet Replacement Squadron that is based at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton. Known as the Knightriders, they fall under the command Marine Aircraft Group 39 (MAG-39) and the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing (3rd MAW).