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Author Topic: High Quality Sound Card  (Read 5996 times)

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Amats

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    High Quality Sound Card
    « on: February 20, 2017, 11:00:10 AM »
    Can someone recommend a high quality sound card for
    1.  Computer gaming & music
    2.  Computer media center
    Thx

    Geek-9pm


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    Re: High Quality Sound Card
    « Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 12:42:45 PM »
    You have a Dell Optiplex 360? Is the sound bad? Did it fail?
    Most sound cards give good sound, but the major weaknesses is the external speaker system. Many are really mediocre.
    Almost any PCI sound card should work. Expect to pay around $70 for a nice card.


    The image above is from the Newegg web site.
    It is a Creative Sound Blaster Audigy FX 5.1 PCIe Sound Card with 600 ohm Headphone Amp.  Still, you have to have an our board l amplifier to drive speakers.

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: High Quality Sound Card
    « Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 03:03:10 PM »
    Use the on-board audio. I'm skeptical of the idea that a separate Audio card is an upgrade from motherboard audio with any semi-recent system, and I speak as somebody who has replaced their motherboard audio in three systems with an audio card. Just as a minor correction to geek's statement: All Audio cards (including on-board) will have appropriate on-board amplifiers for speaker setups; I've never heard of one that doesn't except for some very early ISA-based cards.

    In reviews, and in recommendations, people will be quick to state that their audio sounds a lot better. Of course they do. They just spent money and don't want to think themselves a fool.

    And I don't speak from some high horse here either, looking down on the fools who would purchase them, since as mentioned I have a sound card in all my desktop systems. I just don't know if the slight improvement I think I hear on my desktop is because of the sound card or because of the money spent on them- and they spread the range of offerings- a Sound Blaster ZXR, or the Sound Blaster X-Fi and or the ASUS Xonar DG.

    I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call it snake oil, but nowadays it might be getting very close to the line.
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Geek-9pm


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    Re: High Quality Sound Card
    « Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 04:37:59 PM »
    Maybe there is a  miss understanding. AC ' 97 does not specify output to a loudspeaker. Motherboards never drive loudspeakers directly.

    Quote
    The problem is simply this: the outputs of these sound card simply
    do not have the current capability of driving speakers. At most,
    they can supply but a few milliamps before running into current
    limiting, and that's just not enough to driver a pair of speakers.

    Typically the level is well below 1 watt into a 600 ohm load.  Loudspeaker are often  8 ohm and requires at lea stone watt for normal sound.

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: High Quality Sound Card
    « Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 07:13:01 PM »
    Oh, yes. I see, I was referring specifically to speakers intended for use on the PC, for which no additional amplifier is needed (I presume it is built into the speakers themselves). You are referring to "bare" speakers- eg that connect via speaker wire, which require additional amplifiers when connected to a PC.

    I also may have become confused somehow; I'm not sure what component would be responsible but early audio cards sometimes had a volume roller on them that you could access from the rear of the case which could serve to power PC speakers without their own amplifiers; perhaps this has not become the standard component that I thought.
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Amats

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      Re: High Quality Sound Card
      « Reply #5 on: February 21, 2017, 10:23:08 PM »


      The image above is from the Newegg web site.
      It is a Creative Sound Blaster Audigy FX 5.1 PCIe Sound Card with 600 ohm Headphone Amp.  Still, you have to have an our board l amplifier to drive speakers.
      Thanks Geek, I read some really good reviews on this card so I'm going to get one and try it on my win98, winXP and win7 systems to see if they all like it and if they do I'll get one for each one.

      BC_Programmer


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      Re: High Quality Sound Card
      « Reply #6 on: February 22, 2017, 09:46:24 AM »
      Reviews will have bias in the same way that I described, even at lower price points. Even if the audio was to sound identical, it is possible people would nonetheless highly rate the device.

      Given that, we can look further into the Audigy FX. No insult to Geek-9pm of course but I would expect that it was a rather quick look around with assumptions of manufacturer goodwill; as it happens, though, Sound Card Manufacturers can be pretty shady.

      For example, in this case, "Audigy FX" would suggest that it uses their Audigy Audio Chip. The Audigy Chip is a fairly capable audio processor, quite powerful and capable especially for WinXP and Windows 98, which benefit much better from the hardware capabilities of the card.

      However- As it happens- The Audigy FX doesn't have an Audigy Processor at all- it uses a RealTek ALC898 Chip. This is a common audio codec chip used in many Motherboards. For example- the motherboard I'm using has the exact same chip (GA-Z87X-UD3H). Most of the value in the card comes from the software, which provides effects that are provided via hardware on their other cards, but which instead perform processing on the CPU.

      While I've not had an Audigy FX, I did have it's predecessor, the Audigy SE. This used a similar chip generally used for motherboard integration of audio, but placed on an expansion card. While it certainly sounded fine, it made a lot of software unusable, because all of it's audio processing was done in the driver via the system CPU, and not on-board the audio card. This made even relatively simple games like Doom Source ports completely unplayable (4 FPS), as all the audio processing was being done by the CPU- even replacing it with a generic PCI Sound Blaster 16 showed a marked improvement.


      Given that, one alternative may be the aforementioned ASUS Xonar DG. You can find this as a PCI or PCI-E model. And, while it does use an Audio chip that is found on motherboards, It is only higher-end "Audio-oriented" ASUS Motherboards which feature it- whereas the ALC898 is all over the place.


      Windows 98 and XP are particularly well served by appropriate era-accurate audio hardware. Particularly through games certain Hardware capabilities can be utilized, many of these were dropped on later cards due to changes to how Windows dealt with Audio- EAX, Aureal3D, Hardware-accelerated positional Audio, etc.
      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

      Amats

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        Re: High Quality Sound Card
        « Reply #7 on: February 22, 2017, 08:43:54 PM »
        Thanks for that info BC, it wasn't that exact model of Audigy that was in Geeks picture but it was an Audigy 2 and now there seems to be more difference between them than I thought.  This is the one I was referring to.  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4RE4XA9790  It's not incredibly expensive but the reviews caught my eye.  I know they're made in China and their quality is a little inconsistant but overall looks to have made a good showing.
        « Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 09:07:52 PM by Amats »

        Geek-9pm


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        Re: High Quality Sound Card
        « Reply #8 on: February 22, 2017, 09:25:43 PM »
        Newegg has a good reputation.
        They will not sell something that brings trouble.

        BC_Programmer


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        Re: High Quality Sound Card
        « Reply #9 on: February 22, 2017, 11:48:35 PM »
        Yep, that is the same card I got for my XP system. It works well. However, one thing worth noting is it has a connector for the front-panel, but it is a non-standard one, so it only works with the rather hard-to-find 5-1/4" installable front panel that has a bunch of connections and knobs and stuff- and you can't use it with a normal front-panel audio header.

        Quote
        Newegg has a good reputation.
        They will not sell something that brings trouble.

        A store having a good reputation and selliing poor quality cheap stuff aren't mutually exclusive. They sell selfie sticks.
        I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

        Amats

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          Re: High Quality Sound Card
          « Reply #10 on: February 25, 2017, 05:27:04 PM »
          Yep, that is the same card I got for my XP system. It works well. However, one thing worth noting is it has a connector for the front-panel, but it is a non-standard one, so it only works with the rather hard-to-find 5-1/4" installable front panel that has a bunch of connections and knobs and stuff- and you can't use it with a normal front-panel audio header.

          Don't know how I missed this paragraph.  Do you know where I could find one of these things and what they're called?

          Geek-9pm


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          Re: High Quality Sound Card
          « Reply #11 on: February 25, 2017, 05:42:26 PM »

          A store having a good reputation and selliing poor quality cheap stuff aren't mutually exclusive. They sell selfie sticks.
          What! I had no idea!  ???


          [attachment deleted by admin to conserve space]

          danaone



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            Re: High Quality Sound Card
            « Reply #12 on: March 02, 2017, 05:03:31 PM »
            I changed the vibra 16 by an Ensoniq sound card and this is the best card ever ! the sound with the vibra 16
            was really "rotten"  ;D
            with the ensoniq card it's like having a live orchestra  :)

            Amats

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              Re: High Quality Sound Card
              « Reply #13 on: March 02, 2017, 08:11:13 PM »
              I changed the vibra 16 by an Ensoniq sound card and this is the best card ever ! the sound with the vibra 16
              was really "rotten"  ;D
              with the ensoniq card it's like having a live orchestra  :)

              Thx for that tip Dana.  Is the Ensoniq a PCI card?

              BC_Programmer


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              Re: High Quality Sound Card
              « Reply #14 on: March 02, 2017, 08:30:37 PM »
              Ensoniq specifically built low-end, relatively basic Audio boards for integration into Motherboards, as well as for OEM sound cards.

              Their only PCI Audio card was the Ensoniq AudioPCI. This is identical to the Creative Audio PCI, because Creative Labs bought out Ensoniq and rebranded the Ensoniq AudioPCI.
              I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.