GRUB - Toshiba boot loader

[masmace]

  Hello, I am currently on a Toshiba Qosmio X505 with windows 7 and will be installing lucid lynx soon when the final version is released. What will happen to my boot loader if I install Ubuntu? Will GRUB write over the existing boot sector and will I lose the Toshiba loader? How can I get around this because I like the Toshiba loader + I need the settings and if anything happens I need to be able to recover my system from the loader. Also, it has its own dual boot section so I don't need GRUB. I may be wrong in assuming the Toshiba startup is a boot loader and may need to try Google-in it further, but so far I haven't found anything that helps me answer this question. Thus I come to Computer Hope, so hopefully I can get some help. Thanks. 

[BC_Programmer]

I'm pretty sure what you are seeing is the BIOS startup screen, not a boot loader.

[Geek-9pm]

You have two strikes against you.
1. It is a laptop
2. It is Windows 7

IMO, your best choice is to partition the drive to have some room for the Linux bistro you want. Or use a Linux that allows you to have a 'virtual' partition in the  inside the windows NTFS.

Then to boot up you will have to install part or all of the Linux loader of Linux on a thumb drive and setup you system to boot from the USB device.

BUT, if you want to really, really  get GRUB to boot Windows 7, be prepared to spend a part of your life reading a lot and trying a lot of things.  In that time you could have got several college credits. But, unfortunately, there is, at the present, no credits for finding out how to get GRUB to boot of the Hard Drive AND make friends with Windows 7. But it might qualify for the Noble Peace Prize.

Also, you can start up Linux loader from a floppy.
But you know that, -right?
Please read the fine print. The issue here is MS has no interest in making it easy for you to boot Linux.   

[BC_Programmer]

Windows 7 doesn't complicate dual booting scenarios.

The only difference between windows Vista,7 and XP is simply that they wrote a new boot loader architecture. It doesn't change the way that boot loader is handled by things like Lilo and GRUB.

Lilo and GRUB, and, also, Windows when it is installed after other operating systems, implement multiple-boot scenario's by rewriting the MBR on the main boot drive; that MBR eventually loads the boot loader which loads the boot options menu if applicable. the boot option menu tells that boot loader what to load. It does not matter what OS the MBR is, it can still load the boot sector of any other operating system and that boot sector will operate appropriately.

GRUB and LILO boot windows Vista and seven just fine with the appropriate configuration adjustments. Stop trying to spread Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt just because you had some issues trying to create a multi-boot scenario by installing things in the wrong order.

[masmace]

OK, so you think its just the BIOS start up, that's probably right. The boot folder only contains Windows. I can't tell if there's been any modifications but it doesn't seem that way.

Yeah I was probably going to partition the drive anyways. I have 500gigs/300 available, don't really need any for Ubuntu. Plus yeah the File System is NTFS, and I too don't feel comfortable installing them side-by-side. On my last computer I had vista, and incapable of playing any games I just got rid of vista entirely, but here I would like to keep windows 7. I'm sure that ubuntu and win 7 can be started from the hard using the Toshiba loader.

Also... I did not know that you could boot linux from a floppy, but I had assumed, being as the computers had primarily floppy drives back when Linux was created. Unfortunately, my brand new computer does not come with a floppy drive, and I'm not sure if there are any external flop drives that I could hook up.

[Geek-9pm]

Hello again,
BC_programmer has said I am spreading fear and discouragement. Don't blame me, is just the price of progress. Actually, what BC programmers said is true. There are a Smörgåsbord of ways you can do a dual boot system properly and it works fine. Well, maybe not always the first time. There is a learning curve. So my standard recommendation is you have to have a backup. Repeat that five times. You have to have a backup.
Now then, without any more remarks about your reading ability and how long it's going to take it read all this, now I will give you the ultimate guide to how to do this. And no, it was not written by me. Of course not. But I have checked it over and it is very very accurate and very comprehensive {edit:} nd may take you a few hours  to simulate what's going on. Here it is:

The definitive dual-booting guide: Windows 7, Linux, Vista and XP step-by-step
This was updated in Jan 2009 and does apply to Vista and Windows 7.

BC programmer id that OK by you?

[soybean]

You can run Ubuntu from a CD.  If you want to install it under a dual-boot configuration, the GRUB bootloader will control your startup.  It will display a screen allowing you to choose which OS to boot.  Reading some good references on the subject would be a good thing to do if you want to d\o this.  Here's one: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot

[Cityscape]

BUT, if you want to really, really  get GRUB to boot Windows 7, be prepared to spend a part of your life reading a lot and trying a lot of things.  In that time you could have got several college credits. But, unfortunately, there is, at the present, no credits for finding out how to get GRUB to boot of the Hard Drive AND make friends with Windows 7.

I have heard of no problems with dual-booting Ubuntu and 7. It is the same as doing Vista and Ubuntu. I have a friend who installed Ubuntu 9.10 in dual-boot with his existing Windows 7 and few weeks ago without problem.

OK, so you think its just the BIOS start up, that's probably right. The boot folder only contains Windows. I can't tell if there's been any modifications but it doesn't seem that way.

Yes, what you are seeing would probably be the BIOS/Toshiba screen. Unless you already have 2 or more operating systems on your laptop you wouldn't wouldn't be seeing your bootloader on startup, it would run in the background. Installing Ubuntu shouldn't change any of this. If you install Ubuntu with the GRUB bootloader your laptop should remain the same as it is now. After installing GRUB when boot your laptop you should see the BIOS/Toshiba screen and still be able to change any settings you like normal, and after that it will bring you to the GRUB screen where you'll have the option to start either Ubuntu or Win 7.

To sum it up, here is what I recommend: Run Ubuntu Live from the CD, If your hardware works fine you can install it. I would recommend creating a partition for Ubuntu and installing it there. During installation it will install GRUB on the MBR which will enable you to choose either 7 or Ubuntu on startup. Hint: Just be careful that you know what you are doing, especially when creating/resizing partitions. And like most other people I recommend backing up any real important data.

[JJ 3000]

Will GRUB write over the existing boot sector and will I lose the Toshiba loader? How can I get around this because I like the Toshiba loader + I need the settings and if anything happens I need to be able to recover my system from the loader.

You can repair your boot sector and MBR with a windows disk.
If you don't have one you can download a recovery disk here:
http://neosmart.net/blog/2009/windows-7-system-repair-discs/

[Dairyman]

I've got a dual boot setup between Ubuntu 9.10 and Windows Vista right now. I wasn't so comfortable with using GRUB for loading Windows, as I was worried it could render Vista unbootable. (unable to start)

So what I did was I partitioned the hard drive, and chose to install GRUB to Ubuntu's partition instead of the very start of the hard drive (where Windows puts it's boot loader).

A partition is like a portion of a hard drive you put all your files into.

Basically, what I did was:

1. Shrink the Windows partition to make room for Ubuntu.
2. Setup partitions for root, /home and swap.
3. Install GRUB to the Ubuntu partition (NOT the hard drive itself!!)
4. Used EasyBCD Beta to point Windows to GRUB on the Ubuntu partition.

After that, I had a choice between Ubuntu and Windows Vista, using Windows Boot Manager instead of GRUB so I could be sure Windows wasn't affected.

Though if you just want a fresh and clean install of Ubuntu (e.g Wipe everything and start again), you can do that in the setup too.

The main thing though is to BACK UP YOUR IMPORTANT FILES! If you forget to do this, you can use the Live CD anyway to back them up before installation.

Good luck.

Sorry if this is a little hard to understand and/or fragmented.

[soybean]

You can repair your boot sector and MBR with a windows disk.
If you don't have one you can download a recovery disk here:
http://neosmart.net/blog/2009/windows-7-system-repair-discs/

Well, you're referring to Windows bootloader, not the "Toshiba boot loader", whatever that is.  But, it won't need to be repaired unless he wants to remove Linux and GRUB altogether.

masmace, if Dairyman is correct in his post, you might want to try that approach when you install Linux.

[Cityscape]

Well, you're referring to Windows bootloader, not the "Toshiba boot loader", whatever that is.  But, it won't need to be repaired unless he wants to remove Linux and GRUB altogether.

masmace, if Dairyman is correct in his post, you might want to try that approach when you install Linux.

I agree with soybean here.

You can either use GRUB (the better option if your going to keep Ubuntu or use it lots) or you can do it dairyman's way and use the Windows Bootloader (the better way if you plan to remove Ubuntu later).

[Geek-9pm]

This may help. 

An advanced GUI application that makes it easy to modify the Windows Vista bootloader and the entries in it.
EasyBCD 1.7.2 - Softpedia

Note: When using the above site, download only the program of interest, stay away from the other 'recommended' stuff you don't want.

[masmace]

Thanks again guys. I'm currently on windows 7 as it says in the first post. I did successfully have a dual boot between 9.10 and vista, and it worked fine.I really appreciate all of the help. I won't be installing karmic koala. I'm waiting until the official release of Lucid Lynx. Lucid may have it's own problems and I won't be able to deal with them until I try it out. From what I've read on the web Ubuntu now has an easy feature that installs it safely inside of windows http://www.windowslifestyle.com/index.php/2010/03/install-ubuntu-inside-windows-7/ The Toshiba screen will not be affected either way. I'm not really in a hurry to start using Ubuntu, I've used it before and right now I'm just playing games on Windows.

I'm probably going to test Lucid on my system first before I install and see if it works alright with my hardware, and if not I'll probably report the problems to the Ubuntu community and the manufacturer. After, of-course, seeing if there is any way I can get it to work. If it doesn't work, I'll down-grade to karmic or any other version that works (sometimes they do). AND MAYBE --> I'll use G Parted or something similar to partition my drive, then I'll back up important files ( I already knew to do this, but its great that people have to repeat it, though I understand it is that important), and lastly I'll install Ubuntu 10.04 keeping in mind everything you guys have said.

If you guys have any more information, corrections, or suggestions please respond as y'all have been. Thanks again 

[Geek-9pm]

Did anyone mention that after using the partition resize software on a drive that has Windows 7 this system may not boot correctly? You may need to use the Windows 7 recovery, which is on the install DVD. Or, you can make a recovery CD before you resize the partition. Then to place proper information for the boot stuff you need to boot from the window seven recovery CD and it will fix it. However, I don't know if this is necessary when you're using the Linux boot manager.